Best of British - Burma Lee
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 64 posts
Armorama: 58 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 09:05 AM UTC
Started work on turning Tamiya's old Lee kit into a British Lee used in Burma for the Best of British campaign. Eventually, I will put this in a diorama.
I am going to replace the Tamiya tracks with AFV Clubs T-51 tracks so I had to widen the drive sprockets a little.
Detailed the bogies and replaced the wheels with ones from Formations.
Tamiya's drive sprocket plates(?) seemed too small, so I shaved them off and replaced them with a set I took off an old Monogram Lee.
Thanks for looking, more to come.
Just another long suffering Philadelphia sports fan.
Myanmar
Joined: March 05, 2004
KitMaker: 4,011 posts
Armorama: 1,498 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 10:26 AM UTC
interesting build project.
Looks good so far.
i watched a scale plastic figure crawl along the edge . . . of an exacto blade . . . that's my dream , it's my nightmare . . . . . . . crawling , slithering . . . . . along the edge . . . . . . of an exacto . . . . . blade . . . . and surviving
Indiana, United States
Joined: January 04, 2003
KitMaker: 466 posts
Armorama: 378 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 10:37 AM UTC
Very, very nice work so far. Excellent attention to detail.
I think the Lee is an armor subject that is greatly overlooked. I was planning on tackeling a Lee project based upon the Lees sent to the Soviet Union on lend lease. The infamous "coffin for 7 brothers" as the Russians called it.
Looking forward to seeing more.
Sel
El Diablo Sel Von Selrach
aka Lord Glue
aka Lord Horn
Piggy # 52
United Kingdom
Joined: December 05, 2006
KitMaker: 2,208 posts
Armorama: 2,152 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 03:17 PM UTC
Good work so far, you're obviously putting in some serious detail and effort on this so well done. Looks like it'll build up into an excellent kit if you keep this up! Good to see someone tackling Burma as a setting too. I'll be interested to see the finished dio.
Have fun,
James
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Armorama: 2,798 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 18, 2007 - 03:38 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Very, very nice work so far. Excellent attention to detail.
I think the Lee is an armor subject that is greatly overlooked. I was planning on tackeling a Lee project based upon the Lees sent to the Soviet Union on lend lease. The infamous "coffin for 7 brothers" as the Russians called it.
Looking forward to seeing more.
Sel
Minor thread hijack....
Red Army M3s are terminally undermodelled, which is a shame considering that they continued using them in action up until Kursk, so there's a wide variation in configurations that can shown. Ignore the stuff on Russian Battlefield and other sites about the Russians only getting diesel tanks, they definitely got the petrol engined version in some numbers and both the Wright and Continental built engines.
David
Archaeology is destruction - providing you do it properly
Barlands Farm Model Boat Club 1993
Texas, United States
Joined: April 09, 2005
KitMaker: 251 posts
Armorama: 232 posts
Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 12:21 AM UTC
I have tried to build a lend lease Lee using the Tamyia kit. Now I have the academy but the turret is bad
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 64 posts
Armorama: 58 posts
Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 01:04 AM UTC
Thanks everyone, the Tamiya Lee definitely needs alot of work but I still like its looks. After doing some research into the CBI theatre, it amazes me that this part of the ground war is mostly a sidebar. It spanned almost the whole war and it had some very interesting characters, ie Vinegar Joe Stilwell, Orde Wingate, William Slim and Chiang Kai-shek. The terrain was very diverse, from open plains and mountains to large rivers and dense jungles. The weather also was oppressive from deblitating heat to torrential monsoons. It is amazing that the British were even able to operate in these conditions let alone defeat their enemy. I am contemplating showing the Lee pulling a disabled Type 97 Chi-Ha Shinhoto out of ditch as a war souvenir to be brought back for evaluation.
Just another long suffering Philadelphia sports fan.
Texas, United States
Joined: April 09, 2005
KitMaker: 251 posts
Armorama: 232 posts
Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 01:30 AM UTC
John,
Im a long suffering fan also go Eagles!! im from Yeadon orginally
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 64 posts
Armorama: 58 posts
Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 02:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
John,
Im a long suffering fan also go Eagles!! im from Yeadon orginally
Good to know there are fellow fans out there in the modelling community.
Just another long suffering Philadelphia sports fan.
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 30, 2004
KitMaker: 523 posts
Armorama: 400 posts
Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 03:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Minor thread hijack....
Red Army M3s are terminally undermodelled, which is a shame considering that they continued using them in action up until Kursk, so there's a wide variation in configurations that can shown. Ignore the stuff on Russian Battlefield and other sites about the Russians only getting diesel tanks, they definitely got the petrol engined version in some numbers and both the Wright and Continental built engines.
David
WOW, sounds like something neat and different, any leads on recommended sites/refs??
T
Myanmar
Joined: March 05, 2004
KitMaker: 4,011 posts
Armorama: 1,498 posts
Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 07:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks everyone, the Tamiya Lee definitely needs alot of work but I still like its looks. After doing some research into the CBI theatre, it amazes me that this part of the ground war is mostly a sidebar. It spanned almost the whole war and it had some very interesting characters, ie Vinegar Joe Stilwell, Orde Wingate, William Slim and Chiang Kai-shek. The terrain was very diverse, from open plains and mountains to large rivers and dense jungles. The weather also was oppressive from deblitating heat to torrential monsoons. It is amazing that the British were even able to operate in these conditions let alone defeat their enemy. I am contemplating showing the Lee pulling a disabled Type 97 Chi-Ha Shinhoto out of ditch as a war souvenir to be brought back for evaluation.
I bought and read the book,
Meiktila 1945 The Battle to Liberate Burma, by Osprey. Good quick slam through history of CBI theatre during WWII. There are pictures and descriptions of Shermans, Stuarts, Bren Carriers, Model 95 Ha-Go, and elephants, but nothing on the Lee. I'll watch this thread of your build and final pictures of the tank. Very interesting.
i watched a scale plastic figure crawl along the edge . . . of an exacto blade . . . that's my dream , it's my nightmare . . . . . . . crawling , slithering . . . . . along the edge . . . . . . of an exacto . . . . . blade . . . . and surviving
Myanmar
Joined: March 05, 2004
KitMaker: 4,011 posts
Armorama: 1,498 posts
Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 07:50 AM UTC
I found
one picture of a Lee in Burma, in another one of my history books. The book is titled, "
The Campain In Burma" page 121.
i watched a scale plastic figure crawl along the edge . . . of an exacto blade . . . that's my dream , it's my nightmare . . . . . . . crawling , slithering . . . . . along the edge . . . . . . of an exacto . . . . . blade . . . . and surviving
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Armorama: 2,798 posts
Posted: Monday, February 19, 2007 - 01:51 PM UTC
IMHO the Tamiya Lee turret is worse, the curve starts way too far down the side which throws everything out and means the vision port in the turret rear looks like a bow window.
If you're looking for more Far Eastern Lee images, try the IWM photodatabase
http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/qryPhotoImg.asp I found 29 images by searching for Lee in the keyword and selecting collection 4700-64. There are probably others there too.
As for Red Army M3s there are few nice pics here
M3 Lend Lease I specially like tank 147 which manages to have US, Soviet and German markings.
David
Archaeology is destruction - providing you do it properly
Barlands Farm Model Boat Club 1993
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 64 posts
Armorama: 58 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 01:57 AM UTC
KoSprueOne, I like the picture of the Lee knocking down that tree. Hmm, maybe a dio idea in there somewhere.
Drader wrote:
Quoted Text
IMHO the Tamiya Lee turret is worse, the curve starts way too far down the side which throws everything out and means the vision port in the turret rear looks like a bow window.
David, you're right, the turret is way off. I am trying to fix that problem with the help of a little Milliput, hopefully, it will look better. Also, thanks for those links, some interesting photos.
Just another long suffering Philadelphia sports fan.
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 64 posts
Armorama: 58 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 06:32 AM UTC
More work on the Lee
Front end work:
I used Eduard's photoetch set for the Lee. The light guards were harder to form than I thought! I added wiring and detailed the light bases. The headlight lenses were hollowed out and an MV lens glued in with a layer of silicone over top. Not sure if I like the silicone layer but I'll decide later. Anyone have a more realistic alternative? The casting numbers are from sprue tabs.
Rear end work:
I used the back end of Tamiya's Grant since it had the right setup for a gasoline engined Lee. The fishtail exhausts are reworked Formations pieces. I added a few bits to the mufflers also.
The rivets on the lower hull of the Tamiya Lee are in the wrong place, so I shaved them off and placed them where they should be. Maybe a little too nitpicky, gotta watch that AMS.
Just another long suffering Philadelphia sports fan.
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 64 posts
Armorama: 58 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 06:35 AM UTC
Forgot to mention the idler wheel rear assemblies are from an old Monogram kit.
Just another long suffering Philadelphia sports fan.
Iowa, United States
Joined: October 23, 2003
KitMaker: 884 posts
Armorama: 609 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 04:56 PM UTC
John here is a link for you. You might find it interesting...
http://cbi-theater.home.comcast.net/menu/cbi_home.htmlMy father is a CBI vet, engineer. I will have a look see through my CBI stuff, but I don't recall any Lee's right off the top of my head. Good luck on your build! I am working on a Burma dio right now...
Regards,
Paul
Currahee!
Remeber a veteran, and thank them for their service...
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Armorama: 2,798 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 - 06:04 PM UTC
Quoted Text
David, you're right, the turret is way off. I am trying to fix that problem with the help of a little Milliput, hopefully, it will look better. Also, thanks for those links, some interesting photos.
IIRC the turret shape issues also effect the mantlet plate, so if you don't feel like all that work, you could always use the Grant turret (which of course has the same mantlet)
Photographed in January 1945, not entirely sure about the tracks on the glacis, but they look like Valentine ones.
David
Archaeology is destruction - providing you do it properly
Barlands Farm Model Boat Club 1993
Oregon, United States
Joined: April 12, 2002
KitMaker: 455 posts
Armorama: 298 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 01:29 AM UTC
Nice work on an old kit. The references cited above are great, and if you can find one (I did a while back), the very old Oprey Vanguard title "M3 Lee/Grant in British Service" is a gold mine. Lots of stuff on both North Africa and Burma, including some tactical history on Burma. The old color plates are amusing because the dimensions are WAY off, but there is good stuff on uniforms and kit as used in Burma as well as tidbits on vehicle mods used out there. Worth prowling the used book market to get one of these books for the Burma stuff alone. Me, I'm playing with an Academy Lee and will get the Formations suspension and Legend turret to help it out. I plan to model a 5RTR tank at El Alamein. A second Academy kit is stockpiled for an eventual M31 ARV conversion.
Greg
"You could probably use some armor. A Sherman can give you a very nice...edge."
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 64 posts
Armorama: 58 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 03:12 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Nice work on an old kit. The references cited above are great, and if you can find one (I did a while back), the very old Oprey Vanguard title "M3 Lee/Grant in British Service" is a gold mine.
Greg, thanks. I do have the book you speak of and it is one of the better sources on this subject that I have been able to find. It actually is the reason why I started this project to begin with. Looking forward to seeing your Academy Lee when it is finished. I was thinking of getting the Academy kit, but I had the Tamiya one in my collection for so long I just decided what the heck.
Just another long suffering Philadelphia sports fan.
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 64 posts
Armorama: 58 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 03:26 AM UTC
Quoted Text
John here is a link for you. You might find it interesting...
http://cbi-theater.home.comcast.net/menu/cbi_home.html
My father is a CBI vet, engineer. I will have a look see through my CBI stuff, but I don't recall any Lee's right off the top of my head. Good luck on your build! I am working on a Burma dio right now...
Regards,
Paul
Paul, thanks for the link. Very interesting site. It's a shame the CBI theatre doesn't get the recognition it deserves. I truly admire and respect your father and all those who fought in that unforgiving area of the war. He must have some very interesting stories. What are you going to portray in your Burma dio?
Just another long suffering Philadelphia sports fan.
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 64 posts
Armorama: 58 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 03:31 AM UTC
Drader wrote:
Quoted Text
IIRC the turret shape issues also effect the mantlet plate, so if you don't feel like all that work, you could always use the Grant turret (which of course has the same mantlet)
David, interesting picture, I did not know the British had used Grants in Burma. I guess it would make sense since this was the British version of the Lee.
Just another long suffering Philadelphia sports fan.
#417
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
Armorama: 2,539 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 05:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
[IIRC the turret shape issues also effect the mantlet plate, so if you don't feel like all that work, you could always use the Grant turret (which of course has the same mantlet)
Actually the Lee mantlet is pretty much OK. It's a little high, but the angle is right. You just need to deal with the horrible edge radius and the detail failings that result from that one flaw. The height thing is only about .040". The Grant turret, on the other hand, is horrible. It's fully 0.150" too tall and the front face of the mantlet is off by 5 degrees (which is what makes the turret too tall) Ther rest of the details are off as well and the turret sides are very incorrectly sloped to accoun t for the incorrect height.
ABM makes a nice set of turrets and details for the old Lee and you might want to look them up. I used to sell them, but Sids are much better than mine and he's in the business. I'm not. :-)
Paul
Paul Roberts
Past Editor, Boresight
Armor Modeling and Preservation Society
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Armorama: 2,798 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 02:06 PM UTC
There is also an article on Burma Lees in Military Modelling magazine from a few years ago, in Volume 31 No 13, not to mention 'Tank tracks to Rangoon'
Here is a nice photo I found of a Burma Lee taken from a film on the Pathe site, showing lots of lateish features - driver's periscope, extra fans
Lee The infantryman in the foreground may be one of the Bombay Grenadiers who provided close protection to tank units.
David
Archaeology is destruction - providing you do it properly
Barlands Farm Model Boat Club 1993
Iowa, United States
Joined: October 23, 2003
KitMaker: 884 posts
Armorama: 609 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 03:25 PM UTC
My father was a bulldozer operator. He worked on the Ledo and Burma roads. I am doing Resicasts D7 bulldozer. My plan is to show a section of the road being cut through the dense jungles of Burma.
As for my father he had an accident while trying to clear a tree. It landed on top of his bulldozer. After recooperating he was assigned light duty. From the time of his accident until the end of the war he drove a weapons carrier for his company. He was a member of the 1905th.
My favorite story: He was originally with a different company here in the states during training. He and his drill Sgt. were at odds. My father being a man with great humor, and a little mischevious knew the Sgt. was afraid of snakes... My father caught a little garter snake and went up to shake the hand of his Sgt. Needless to say my father was transford to another company. A good thing for me for the company he was in was sent to the Pacific and nearly wiped out...
Thanks for asking, good luck on your project! It looks to be the makings of a fine Lee. Good to see someone remember the CBI.
My father with his WC.
Currahee!
Remeber a veteran, and thank them for their service...
