Jacque, Thanks, the primer does help. It clarified what I thought that I knew.
Sooo, the T-72 was seen as a simpler (and safer)(and probably cheaper) solution to the problems with the T-64 while the T-80 was developed and produced in an attempt to field the 'ultimate' tank (given the limitations of doctrine and funding) Making the T-72 sort of a 'fall back' design. Right?

I've noticed that your friend Sergi seems to have a far greater interest in the T-80 than the T-72. (But I gotta get one of those T-72 'Flamethrower' things)

I apologize for this hijack. Dear Jacques, please tell me what can be done with the SKIF t80UDK kit number226 kit. I am completely lost, sorry for my ignorance. I am planning to buy new tracks and to convert it into a T80U m85. First of all, is this conversion possible? If yes, when are you going to recieve new items? You have every major set out of stock.

Well, tank design in the former USSR is a bit more complicated...basically it revolved around designs bereaus and some of the top personalities. The T-72 came about because part of the Red Army wanted a fancy, technological tank (the T-64) and part of the Red Army was concerned about not being able to build enough of them fast enough, and there were reliability issues at first, and so the rival design team started to tinker with a way to make the T-64 "better" in many ways...and this had an audience in parts of the Red Army. Eventually they just decided the best compromise was to have a fancy tank that, when the bugs were worked out, was a top-line vehicle, and ALSO have a tank that was easier to produce in large numbers (both from a manufacturing standpoint AND a money standpoint). There were also progressives and reactionaries inthe Red Army, and the result was a part of this fight.

So the T-72 is not a fall back tank, it is more of a rival design team getting a tank based on a different philosophy produced.

None of the documentation I have seen really explains why they decided to produce a T-80 rather than just have a T-64C or something, other than the desire to put a gas turbine in a tank for better performance.

The one thing that needs to be said is that once the Russians start tinkering with something, they never stop. Take the T-72...they started by making a better auto-loader for the T-64, then they changed the suspension and roadwheels for that modified T-64 (based on a Objekt design that lost to the T-64) , of course then they needed a different engine (from the looing Objekt design coincidentally), which lead to a need for a different transmission...etc. Next thing you know, you have a new tank design. In a way it is almost like the "looser" got to produce the tank they first promoted by taking the winning design and changing it one piece at a time... :-)

So it is comfusing. Maybe those pesky Russkies wanted us to be confused?

For the SKIF T-80UDK, it is essentially the T-80UD with a few extra parts. Any conversion for the T-80UD kit will work with it just as well.

As for the T-80 conversions, I should be getting more in stock in the next month or so. However, if you want to order directly from the Ukraine, drop me a note from my webpage and I will let you know how to do it. Prices are the same though...

As for Sergej and his interest in particular tanks...well, the T-80UD was produced in the Ukraine and they are also a cutting edge tank producer right now in competition with Russia, while the T-72 is not of local manufacture. There is a lot of nationalism in Eastern Europe right now, mainly against the Russians pushing them around, but there is also a lot os scepticism in dealing with the West as well. So Ukrainians tend to turn in on what they can do for themselves and that may effect Sergej's choices.

Besides, the T-72 has been done far more than the T-80...

From looking at the above posts, the Russian army had phased out the diesel powered T-80s and only uses the turbine powered ones now right?

Any speculation on wwether the T-95 will be turbine powered?

Are the T-72/T90s deployed alongside of T-80s in the same units?

I think that I am starting to ask as many questions as my two little ones.

I think Sergei's choices are pretty cool, I just wish he would do the BMP-T Errr I mean the T-72 something or other.

I know everyone wants the BMP-T/T-72 Ramka...I have been on him to do one, but he has a backlog a mile long. He has said that in about 2 years he may be at the point to do one, so it is definately on the table...just at the back. Keep hope alive.

The T-80UD's are all retired in Russian service, mainly because they were primarily from the Ukraine and there was a bit of a "war" between Moscow and the Kharkov plant over parts and such. Russia produced about 70-90% of the T-80 parts and would not give the Ukraine either the parts they needed at reasonable cost or provide the manufacturing specs for the parts. So the Ukrainians developed their own local parts. However, the Russians did not want to ask the Ukrainians for the parts THEY needed for the -UD's and they did not want ot develope them locally so when spare parts ran out, the tanks were retired. Now only the Ukraine and Pakistan use the -UD versions as either a -UD or as the T-84.

The T-95 is VERY secretive (noone has even seen pictures of it, at least that are not classified) and it is all a mystery. Noone is positive on any aspect of it right now.

T-72's and T-80's are issued out in regimental increments, so no mixed units below that. However, a T-72/T-90 Regiment may serve alongside a T-80B/T-80U Regiment in a Tank Division. This helps to ease the logistics nightmare of having 4 almost completely different tanks in current service.

Jacques, thanks for the info, your'e awesome.

Just two more I gotta ask though...

How does a guy in Minnesota know so much about current affairs in the Russian military?

When you say "So say we all" are you referring to Admiral (then Captain) Adama or a real person?

Long story short, I served as a Forward Observer in the MN National Guard and became the Vehicle Identification NCO (woo hoo! :-) ) when there. I was a big russian vehicle nut even then.

Also, with the fall of the Soviet Union and the opening of the country to the West, I read up on as much info as I could and spoke to people who have been there. There are friends in my model club who have been to places like Kubinka.

I have also been able to grow some good connections with people in the Military Intelligence services around the world because of my association with SP Designs and all the cool conversions. Many of them are happy to discuss non-classified info with other non-intelligence people and they also turn out to be Red Army modellers as well!

Finally, I peruse the internet for pictures, I am a avid member of Tanknet which has a large group of Eastern European technical people, and I have gotten a lot of good pictures/info from military people in Europe who have gone to a lot of the military shows. (Sorry guys, most of the pictures are copywritten and I cannot share them. ) just look through the net to see most of what I have anyhow.

As for the byline, yup, from BG. The show is a bit too soap-opera for me now, but the 2 hour pilot made a big impression on me. I hae also been a minor fan of Edward James Olmos since I saw him in Bladerunner. Silly me.

Cool!

Amen on BG being soapy. I followed avidly until recently. Lately, I was doing too much of this while watching.

Ok, got a note from Sergej and he says that, as we thought, the Leningrad and Omsk versions only differ in:

1. How the BROD-M is mounted ont he rear of the turret

2. The quantity of Ammo boxes for the MG.

That is pretty much it. He says that in the future (next year or two) he will be combining both kits into one conversion with both options.

So there you all go.

BTW I have started in on my own T-80U "Omsk" using the SKIF kit and lots of aftermarket PE. I will try to keep a running commentary, but I think this will be a LOT of work. However, the DML T-80U SMT m1989 is just about ready for pictures, priming, demonstration parts, and then painting.