Hey

I was just wondering if the panzer crewman on the Eastern Front wore Black. Or if they always where black or if they where green like the crewman in france in 44. ??? And if there is a good website for panzer crew uniforms plz let me know for I have looked but not prevailed

thanks

Trev

Trevor,
The SS Panzer crews wore their own version of the black panzer uniform, it was virtually identical to the army pattern, except that the lapels were slightly different in shape. In 1/35th scale it's almost unnoticeable. Photos taken of the SS in Russia show that it was not unusual for SS tank crews to wear camo smocks over their black panzer uniforms. Photographs taken @ the time of Kursk in 1943 show almost all SS tank crews, irrespective of rank, wearing the unique to the SS camouflaged overalls in a summer "oak" pattern. The suit was printed in a fall pattern on the reverse, but was not truly reversible, as the pocket flaps only appeared on one side. It was worn with shoulder straps, & rank was indicated by these & the special camo sleeve rank badges. It was in wear until the end of the war, photos @ Tarnopol in 1944 show it being worn, especially by SS Obersturmbannfuhrer Meyer, the CO of SS Pz Regt 9. During 1944, this garment began to be replaced by the camo tank suit. This was a similar cut to the black clothing, but was in "pea"pattern. Once again shoulder straps were worn on this suit & the low visibility ranking. By 1944 it appears that the black clothing had more or less been reserved for parades in the SS, & late war recruits seem to have been issued with the camo suit in lieu of the black clothing. Veterans & some officers may have retained the black clothing for special occasions. Photos taken of SS SPz Abt 501 in France show decorations being worn on the camo kit for a parade which would tend to reinforce the idea that the black clothing was in abeyance.
There was also a drill version of the panzer suit in rush green herringbone twill. This was a Wehrmacht issue clothing, which was immediately recognisable by a large pocket on the left breast, which of course was absent from the black & camo clothing. This was worn by Wehrmacht tank crews, & presumably was availble to SS ones. It was particularly popular amongst recce troops.
In addition, it was, of course, normal for panzer troops to wear the standard special winter clothing during the cold months.

Wow ! thank you for the great response. that was everything I really needed to know and more. I think I'm going to go with black for my crewman due to your response. I'f I ever get a Digy cam I'll post a pic. thanks again.

Trev

Hello,

I would second much of what Steve has written, but would also remark that the W-SS Panzer jacket pattern was fairly distinctive. There was a very, very limited use of Heer black Panzer uniforms, just at the beginning of the war - the SS own pattern was quickly introduced. The back panels had a different cut, hence, different seams. Lapels were usually smaller, and the jacket was shorther. Also, the jacket edge, when closed, had no diagonal slant as the Heer model had, it was vertical instead. I sincerely believe the diferences are noticeable enough. Besides, the insignia were different too.

The above is true for the black, the field-grey (which has not been mentioned so far) and the camo models. In my opinion, just by painting changes, a Heer figure can not convincingly turned into one from the SS.

HTH,

Dani

There is also the point that crews took to wearing camoflage gear in an attempt to prevent giving away the fact to the enemy that panzer troops were based in the area.

another reason towards the end of the war was the belief that wearing a black uniform could give the idea that the wearer was part of a rather different organisation to the one is actually was in.

have you thought of mixing and matching, there are many photos of black jackets worn with camo trousers and vice versa, it always makes an interesting comparison

P.S.

Of course, headgear and other details, like belt buckles, will differ too, depending on the particular case and pattern.

Dani

This is a good place to start.
Although SS Pnzr. crews always wore black uniforms. Sometimes jacket w/ camo pants or reversable smocks, but the black service cap, or peaked cap was standard wear. The SS pnzr jacket was remaniscent of a tuxedo dinner jacket w/ no tails. I agree with all the previous post of info.Hope this helps. /image.file[/img]

here are some others worth a looksie image.file[/img]
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