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Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Mario Matijasic
Proposal: 1st Gulf War, 30th Anniversary
md72
#439
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Washington, United States
Joined: November 05, 2005
KitMaker: 4,950 posts
Armorama: 289 posts
Posted: Monday, December 07, 2020 - 12:14 PM UTC
OK, I'll bite with a wingy thing. Probably an F-15A. Now I just gotta find the decals.
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: March 25, 2006
KitMaker: 1,244 posts
Armorama: 1,226 posts
Posted: Monday, December 07, 2020 - 03:51 AM UTC
I remember visiting the Tank museum the year after, with my dad and brother.
They had Iraqi T-55's, etc with the sand still on.

My dad encountered one of the original Desert rats in the cafeteria, but that's a different story...
erichvon
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: January 17, 2006
KitMaker: 1,694 posts
Armorama: 1,584 posts
Posted: Monday, December 07, 2020 - 01:46 AM UTC
I can't believe it's thirty years ago! Now that does make me feel old! We were on 48 hours notice to deploy but were stood down because it all ended so quickly. A lot of very disappointed squaddies within the battalion. Our Colonel gave our company an informal briefing the day before the ground offensive started as to how he thought the offensive would pan out,having spent a couple of years on attachment to the Jordanian army. He was absolutely spot on, which considering we were an infantry regiment surprised us with the whole affair being more armour and air orientated. Mind you he was a very switched on C.O so his understanding of armoured warfare shouldn't have surprised us. Even though I only build WW2 stuff I may be tempted to dip my toe into modern armour and do a Challenger.
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: March 25, 2006
KitMaker: 1,244 posts
Armorama: 1,226 posts
Posted: Friday, December 04, 2020 - 08:59 PM UTC
Echelon has some nice decal options for the M551 Sheridan and M1A1 Abrams:
https://echelonfd.com/products/?range=all&keywords=desert+storm&scale=all&submit=Search
andromeda673
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Wisconsin, United States
Joined: July 30, 2013
KitMaker: 584 posts
Armorama: 525 posts
Posted: Monday, November 30, 2020 - 04:17 PM UTC
holy crap I'm in!!!!! I haven't been in a campaign for some time, so I'm really happy to be here and be part of this, I think I'm going to go with something that has some wings.....A10 perhaps and in 1/72 scale, what do you guys think?
ryally
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: July 29, 2005
KitMaker: 879 posts
Armorama: 330 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 - 10:17 AM UTC
Some others in here
Sword in the Sand: U.S. Marines in the Gulf War by Concord Publications
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/concord-publications-gulf-war-desert-1899631974

petbat
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: August 06, 2005
KitMaker: 3,353 posts
Armorama: 3,121 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 - 09:13 AM UTC
Another Concord if you are interested in the British side of things:
seanmcandrews
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: May 09, 2009
KitMaker: 561 posts
Armorama: 553 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 - 02:14 AM UTC
Those Concord titles are indeed worthwhile but may be tricky to as they are all out of print.

Sean
Klaus-Adler
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
MODELGEEK
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: June 08, 2015
KitMaker: 1,505 posts
Armorama: 840 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 - 11:29 PM UTC
There are some interesting books there that i might have a look for soon, as you can never have to much reference material.
Tank1812
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: April 29, 2014
KitMaker: 1,112 posts
Armorama: 886 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 - 10:37 PM UTC
Here is a list of US blue on blue incidents from GW1.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1991/08/14/gulf-wars-friendly-fire-tally-triples/b39b8d25-7bfa-4888-a8cf-0ac19de496b2/

It does list the worst as the British incident Peter spoke of. Some sources combined the 11 Marines killed on 1/29, this article breaks them out as separate incidents.
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: March 25, 2006
KitMaker: 1,244 posts
Armorama: 1,226 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 - 10:19 PM UTC
Two great books are the old Verlinden books on the Gulf war:






The Concord books are worthwhile as well:

Covers all Coalition- (including French, Egypt, etc.) and Iraqi forces.









petbat
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: August 06, 2005
KitMaker: 3,353 posts
Armorama: 3,121 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 - 09:35 AM UTC

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I read somewhere that 20 Bradleys IFV were destroyed over this time, 17 from friendly fire. I have an old "Lee" Bradley that is a rubbish kit !! It might be the olny time I would build it as a destroyed vehicle


https://apnews.com/article/a27293da2a7e7f869c0f309d124583f1
https://gulflink.health.mil/du_ii/du_ii_tabh.htm



Note the first article references the 'worst' incident of US cause was 6 US soldiers, however Nine British military personnel were killed by a USAF A-10 Thunderbolt II when it destroyed two Warrior IFVs - does this mean the higher number of vehicles lost in the 'worst' instance counts more than the loss of human life? To me, every incident of Friendly Fire loss is the worst...
ryally
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: July 29, 2005
KitMaker: 879 posts
Armorama: 330 posts
Posted: Friday, November 20, 2020 - 09:45 PM UTC
I read somewhere that 20 Bradleys IFV were destroyed over this time, 17 from friendly fire. I have an old "Lee" Bradley that is a rubbish kit !! It might be the olny time I would build it as a destroyed vehicle
beerbryan11
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Florida, United States
Joined: September 19, 2016
KitMaker: 7 posts
Armorama: 7 posts
Posted: Friday, November 20, 2020 - 06:52 AM UTC

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I have seen some mine plough versions with the large box (air Con ? Generator ? ) on the right hand rear of hull and some without. I dont want to buy a kit that has the wrong configuration. All help appreciated. John


Yes, it was a hull mounted auxiliary power unit. From what I understand they weren't widely used due to reliability issues, but I have a book titled "Americas First Team in the Gulf" detailing the actions of the 1st CAV Division that has a photo of a line up of A1s all mounting them so I guess you wouldn't be wrong to use it.

Sean


As for the mine plows. WE got those right after getting to Saudi Arabia in late September/ early October 1990 (We were the first M1A1 unit to arrive in Saudi behind the 82nd AB) and the mine plows came NATO green we painted them desert sand once there was enough paint on hand. WE painted them with CARC. Only combat vehicle in our Regiment received CARC i.e. M1A1, M1A2, M113, M88 etc... all soft skins received non CARC which started to turn a pinkish color after a couple of weeks. The mine plows themselves were used a lot in training up until the ground war started and had lost most of the paint on the teeth and front blades. So if your modeling a mine plow don't go light on the heavy chipping and wear to the paint.

Cheers Bryan
beerbryan11
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Florida, United States
Joined: September 19, 2016
KitMaker: 7 posts
Armorama: 7 posts
Posted: Friday, November 20, 2020 - 06:52 AM UTC

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I have seen some mine plough versions with the large box (air Con ? Generator ? ) on the right hand rear of hull and some without. I dont want to buy a kit that has the wrong configuration. All help appreciated. John


Yes, it was a hull mounted auxiliary power unit. From what I understand they weren't widely used due to reliability issues, but I have a book titled "Americas First Team in the Gulf" detailing the actions of the 1st CAV Division that has a photo of a line up of A1s all mounting them so I guess you wouldn't be wrong to use it.

Sean


I was with the 3rd ACR and we received new M1A1's on December 29th 1990. Of our four tanks we got only one had the Auxiliary power units. All of the tanks we received had the loops on the right rear to mount the APU's. We didn't use the one we got because due to army wisdom the unit didn't come with any Manual. Bonk
Johnnych01
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: June 29, 2019
KitMaker: 604 posts
Armorama: 506 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2020 - 10:34 PM UTC
Colin, it's probably better asking this on the thread on the other site ..I'm not sure how many people still use this one... I rarely come on it now the new forums are up and running and this campaign has a thread there now. John
deerstalker36
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: May 16, 2010
KitMaker: 232 posts
Armorama: 218 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2020 - 09:36 PM UTC
just confirming, are we allowing stuff from Desert Shield as well? I've just bought a nice little 1/200 resin Andromeda kit that i can build as HMS Jupiter

horrido666
Joined: September 05, 2011
KitMaker: 37 posts
Armorama: 30 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - 10:01 AM UTC
I was already a veteran by the time the 1st Gulf War started, but had ETS'd recently enough to feel connected to my unit, the 3rd ACR. I've got an old M113 kit in the stash, and wanted to scratch build a M220 TOW pedestal and ramp in the cargo compartment. We also fielded a Dragon missile mounted to the cupula. That or an AFV club M60A1, and an engine detail kit. Not sure what I want to do yet.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 - 06:40 AM UTC
count me in with the M60 Marine tank, and maybe a Type 69II
gary
Johnnych01
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: June 29, 2019
KitMaker: 604 posts
Armorama: 506 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 - 09:01 AM UTC
Great.... And I've just ordered my Tamiya M1A1 with mine plough
Klaus-Adler
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
MODELGEEK
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Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: June 08, 2015
KitMaker: 1,505 posts
Armorama: 840 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 - 07:06 AM UTC

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David, is it worth starting a new thread over on the new site for this as more and more people are posting there now, and this side may well be archived by Dec/Jan...


good call, I will set up an enlistment thread on the new site in the next day or so.
Johnnych01
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: June 29, 2019
KitMaker: 604 posts
Armorama: 506 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 - 12:37 AM UTC
David, is it worth starting a new thread over on the new site for this as more and more people are posting there now, and this side may well be archived by Dec/Jan...
seanmcandrews
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: May 09, 2009
KitMaker: 561 posts
Armorama: 553 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 - 11:27 AM UTC

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I have seen some mine plough versions with the large box (air Con ? Generator ? ) on the right hand rear of hull and some without. I dont want to buy a kit that has the wrong configuration. All help appreciated. John


Yes, it was a hull mounted auxiliary power unit. From what I understand they weren't widely used due to reliability issues, but I have a book titled "Americas First Team in the Gulf" detailing the actions of the 1st CAV Division that has a photo of a line up of A1s all mounting them so I guess you wouldn't be wrong to use it.

Sean
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 - 09:27 AM UTC

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Thanks Ryan, that is a really great link and helps alot and I will certainly use it. Thats the great thing about these sites, all the info you tips you can get.( and thanks Gino).

Colin, I think that date in Aug 90 was for Op Desert Shield (or something along those lines) which was the combined air campaign to soften everything up. The actual ground offence offence was launched on January 16, 1991. Was'nt the first shot fired by Apache gunships and Hellfires taking out a radar or comms set up ?



16 January was when the air war started. I was a budding, young signal intelligence interceptor at the time. 02 August was when Saddam went into Kuwait.

Yes, the first shots were fired by Apaches (101st Air Assault I think) taking out radar sites to clear a path for the aircraft coming in.




The 82nd went over the berm seperating Arabia from Iraq almost every night to shoot M198 howitzers. They were maybe ten or twelve klicks inside Iraq. Yet I don't think they close to being the first. There was an Egyptain 152mm howitzer unit shooting before the 82nd got there. And it seems that there were tanks shooting even before that
gary
GulfWarrior
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ARMORAMA
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Texas, United States
Joined: January 05, 2010
KitMaker: 1,051 posts
Armorama: 1,029 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 - 07:40 AM UTC

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I did use to love watching the A10 fire, until a certain blue on blue with my unit in Iraq ....now Im not a fan......but life goes on...


My battalion found out the hard way that a ground surveillance radar system shows up on an Apache's radar as a ZSU 23-4. They took one of ours out. It was three days before I found out if a couple of my battle buddies were dead or alive. They all made it! Can't say the same for their M113 and all their gear!



 _GOTOTOP