I have started on an usual project. At one time the leopard 2 was being considered by the British as a new MBT.

I have started work on a model of what it may have looked like. But I'm running sort of ideas and wondered what modification's the Brits mite have to the tank? Eg would they have used the gun from the chieftain or Challenger?
If anyone has any ideas let me know i will try and put some pics up when i am a bit further along.

Hi there,have to concur with the earlier posting,never would have happened but i do seem to remember seeing a picture of all the contenders lined up when a new tender was sort for a Chieftan replacement.It showed everything that was available at the time including a Chieftan with the then new stillbrew package,a Leopard and even a Abrams.
Still,it`s your model,you do what you want.Me personally,i`m toying with some ideas for a Challenger SPG and turretless command version like an APC all in glorius 1/35 scale.

A tank is very much a prestige weapons system, and major arms producing nations are keen to develop their own, as a sort of flagship for their arms industry. Thus, while there was an "official" consideration of Germany's Leopard 2 when the US and British militaries needed a new main battle tank, politically, the chances of its adoption by either country were zero. They were basically just being polite to the Germans. While it would make economic and logistical sense for NATO to standardize on one tank, the prestige issue takes precedence. Thus, the USA, Germany, France, the UK, and even Italy, each have a "national" tank.

Great whiffer idea. A BAOR Leopard 2 would have the advantage of NATO commonality. I would say adding UK-specific radios, and MAG-58's would be a start. A Pearson dozer blade would look great too.

Didn't mean to open up a can of worms here it is a 'WHAT IF' after all.

Thought of all the obvious things like radios and a GPMG in place of the MG3. The dozer blade sounds like a good idea? The model i am working on is based on a OP Telic tank from the latest gulf conflict. So it is based on the A5 i have added an air con unit to the rear of the turret and i am working on bar armour to go over the grills on the rear of the engine deck.

things like the obligatory chieftain bins will more than likely go on at some stage. what i am wondering is what smoke dischargers would be used and where they would go????

The BAOR idea has got me thinking tho. Another model on the way mayby??

Hi Scott,

I think your British Leopard "What-if" is a great idea. I am not sure what all these other guys are getting upset about.....I am sure Margaret Thatcher isn't having nightmares about your post.

So you are using the Leopard 2A5 as the base kit.....the bar armour would be great to add.

I think you should leave the Wegmann grenade launchers as is on the model...no need to change them for British style versions.

You could consider adding an remote weapon station on the turret .....they were trialed on the Challenger 2.

How about adding side skirt dust extensions to your Leopard? With that extend the rear mud flaps and the front fenders to reduce dust and sand being thrown up while on the move.

Maybe some externally mounted fuel drums?

Add a wire cutter to the turret.

Good luck with your project.

Was thinking about chally style armoured side skirts so the extensions sound like a good idea.

The weapons station from the stryker kit fitted with GPMG mite work with some mods?? Don't know if you have seen pics of the peace support ops leopard? it has a remote weapons station fitted to rear of the turret with a stubby .50 cal mounted on it.

Got some ideas brewing away for the smock distcargers now.

Oh yeah, if you are doing an Op theatre deployed tank vice a BAOR tank, then you have to do the romor armour (or a whiffer version thereof). A desert stone painted Leopard would look sharpish indeed. Grab an RWS of the AFVC Stryker and plonk that down...or for a more British look, perhaps some kind of 1-man turret from an FV-432 or Ferret or MCRV?

BTW, there is a Leopard Whiffer build going on here:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/169232/

Thanks guys the ideas are really starting to flow now i will keep you updated.

Its good to see the leo 2 is finnally seeing active combat i am sure you canadians will give it a good work out.

I don't believe anyone is upset. Just offering a reality check, that's all. As for a fictional model, the builder can do whatever makes sense to him. The British were (and are) averse to smoothbore guns, so the Rheinmetall 120 mm would be a non-starter. What adding the British 120 mm rifled gun would do to the German turret design is uncertain, as it involves issues like recoil length, crew placement and ammunition stowage. Certainly the Leopard 2 AV version trialed against the two M1 prototypes was significantly different in turret shape from the version eventually built for the Bundeswehr.

Reality check?...OK, some of the other guys are "skeptical" not "upset" ... you are correct...Scott is just having fun...he can add folding wings and call it Chitty Chitty Panzer Bang Bang if he wants.

We should be encouraging Scott to use imagination and not state all the political mumbo jumbo about it couldn't happen, it'll never happen, they would never pick that gun.

Oh, actually the Leopard 2 AV turret shape was not all that different from the intitial production Leopard 2.

Thanks for your comments on my post. Cheers and happy modelling. I look forward to seeing Scott's project develop.

The AV version had the wedge-shaped turret seen on the prototype preserved at Saumur, quite similar to the contemporary Leopard 1A4. The production turret was box shaped, as seen on all Leo 2s before the A5 series.
See the bottom four photos here:
http://www.peachmountain.com/5Star/Museum_Tanks_Musee_des_Blindes_Saumur_German_Cold_War.asp

Sorry....that's not the Leopard 2 AV (Austere Version).

That Leopard in the link looks very similar to Leopard 2 Prototype 14 at the Panzer Museum in Munster...it resembled the Leopard 1A4 turret, used the MBT 70 track and road wheels, and mounts the 120 mm.

The Leopard 2 AV tanks consisted of Leopard 2 Prototype 19 and Prototype 20....resembled the first production Leopard 2 but had the pioneer tools mounted on the side of the hull sponsons, and mounted with either the 105 mm and 120 mm.

Look at the Leopard 2 AV in Osprey's "Leopard 2 Main Battle Tank 1979-1998" and in Concord's "Leopard 1 and 2 The Spearheads of the West German Armoured Forces".

If you don't have those reference books...check the following link...scroll down to the side by side 2nd and 3rd images....left image....one of the Generation 1 Leopard 2 Prototypes......right image....Leopard 2 AV.

Keep scrolling to the 4th image....Leopard 2 AV. The turret clearly has the Leopard 2 shape.

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/leo2.htm

Happy AFV modelling.

IIRC Leopard 2AVs looked more like 1A4s on steroids than the 2 that we know and love today.

I would change the smoke grenade launchers for British standard ones as I believe that this was done on the Fox.

David

[quote]Reality check?...OK, some of the other guys are "skeptical" not "upset" ... you are correct...Scott is just having fun...he can add folding wings and call it Chitty Chitty Panzer Bang Bang if he wants.

We should be encouraging Scott to use imagination and not state all the political mumbo jumbo about it couldn't happen, it'll never happen, they would never pick that gun.

Thank you...A Chitty Chitty Panzer bang bang could that be another idea.....

David, as I stated in my post above yours.....the Leopard 2 AVs did not look like the Leopard 1A4.....click the link I provided and you'll see images of the Leopard 2 AV.....and the other Prototypes that originally looked like the Leopard 1A4.....but they are not the Leopard 2 AV.

There was only two Leopard 2 AVs produced (Prototype 19 and 20) and they were the ones usd for trials in the US.

I am trying to upload some work in progress shots but can't get them to upload Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

I have taken on board some of your ideas and the model is starting to look pritty good. i have build up some extended rear mud flaps and have modified some of the kit distchargers.

Whoohooo

Got some pics up. If you go into my profile thing there are some pic of the leo in there now.havent figured out how to get them on here yet thow.

Good start...keep it going.

Here ya go







nice start, keep us posted!

cheers

Thank you.

The bar armour is going to change thats just a prototype thats why it looks a bit messy.

"The British were (and are) averse to smoothbore guns, so the Rheinmetall 120 mm would be a non-starter. "

There was an article on the MOD web site that as part of chal2 upgrade they will be testing a smoothbore

Yeah read about that just before i left the army. It was part of the leathalitaty upgrade program for the chally so it could fire a wider range of ammo types.