If I find something in my stash I'm in.
mmhhh
...
E-50 -- E-75
Jagdpanzer IV -- jagdtiger
panzer III -- panzer IV
marder II -- marder III

I'm in.

Bob, way to literal. Yes, most of these 'replacements' were not built to specifically replace one-another. Only through their combat ability do they replace or succeed. Either way, one is the predecessor and one is the successor. Sometimes it's just nice to have a bigger gun; like the T-34 and 34/85 or early Mk. Merkava and the Mk. IV.

" then about any 2 Panzer III kits (or 2 Shermies, or 2 Abrahms, or 2 Tigers, or...) will fill the bill, and this becomes simply a "build 2 versions of a type" campaign"

No. As I stated originally, Shermans would work if you would say M4A4 to Firefly. British used both and there are enough technical changes (mainly the bigger gun and turret) that would, in most peoples eyes (probably not yours) would qualify it as the successor.

I would NOT count the Abrahms, they've only received small changes over the years; usually computers.

Or as Jeff Tucker had suggested, the Italian Autoblinda 41 and 43. This does NOT qualify; though they have different guns the only noticeable change was from the 41's Breda 35 Autocannon to a 47mm gun, the change was never implemented due to the Italians surrender.

Paul, those would be nice to see in the campaign.

Guess that makes ten at any rate, will submit the campaign tonight.

I would like to participate with a strv 102 (a Swedish version of the centurion) and the strv 122
(Leopard 2) would that be okay? If so it will be my first builds on armorama, this being my first post !

Jakob

Thanks Gary, but what do you mean about the dates? If there are already too many start first quarter 2013 I'd have no issue with it being pushed back a little bit.

Hey guy; just bumping the thread. Hoping to find some more interested people so I can get this submitted (correctly!).

Campaign would run from March 1st, 2013 to September 1st, 2013 unless people feel we need more time.

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Bob, way to literal. Yes, most of these 'replacements' were not built to specifically replace one-another. Only through their combat ability do they replace or succeed. Either way, one is the predecessor and one is the successor. Sometimes it's just nice to have a bigger gun; like the T-34 and 34/85 or early Mk. Merkava and the Mk. IV.

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Chris;

how about going from the XM1 ( pre chobham armor ) to the m1

Perhaps guilty-as-charged! Still... what I'm saying here is that there is certainly a gray zone in this "discussion"... are we seeking a "simple change in production details" as being a "replacement", or are we talking about functional replacement in service of one type by another? Two way-different things. Were the Panzer III J and L with the longer 5cm gun replacing another panzer III in production? YES. In service? Not really. Up-gunning the III WAS certainly adaptive in the face of recognition that smaller guns were in-effective against Russian tanks, and when older Pz III with shorter guns were brought in for refurb sometimes they received the new gun as a replacement... But all Pz III pretty much remained in service until they died.

It does seem that we blur here the distinction between continually up-grading and improving the current production line and actually taking the older line and type out of service and REPLACING them with something different. Older Pz III were up-gunned during refurb and returned to usage - but 5cm Pz III served 'till the end. Maybe it's a case of "using up the old stock".

On the other hand, the US Army actually REPLACED the old "jeep" with the M151 "mutt" in the 1960's - removing jeeps from all service and replacing them with mutts. The mutts in turn were taken out of service and replaced with Hummers. The Soviets replaced their old wheeled infantry carriers BTR 40 and BTR 152 with the BTR 60 series. This in turn was taken out of service and replaced by BTR 70, and now by BTR 80 series. These are, to me, more clearly "replacements" by new types in the same roles then serial upgrades. That's more like Ford eventually retiring the Model T and replacing it with other models - not just upgrades of T - from 1927.

Just as a parting fun exploration of this replacement theme and question... consider the German Panzer IV long-gun versions... F2/G introduces the long 7.5cm gun to replace the previous standard short 7.5cm. A useful and driven replacement to extend the service-life of the type in combat. Next, in the G came the schurzen... again a useful upgrade to extend service-life in combat. Next came zimmerit in the mid H... OK maybe also an upgrade to extend service life... or argued to do so but without much actual evidence for effectiveness. Next came the J... to simplify and save production cost. Next came... drop that zimm in mid J. This argued to maybe increase service life of the type, but again without much evidence. Next, in late J, came the Thoma mesh schurtzen... to save steel and cost. Lots of change. Some upgrade. Some actually down-grades. Each version replaced the previous in production but not in service (Part of my POINT!). All remained serving to the end!

Just fun!

By me: IF we are accepting here merely a within-series upgrade or detail change, then about any 2 Panzer III kits (or 2 Shermies, or 2 Abrahms, or 2 Tigers, or...) will fill the bill, and this becomes simply a "build 2 versions of a type" campaign, IMO. IF on the other hand the intent and vision is to find and depict a clear IN-SERVICE type-replacement, then... look for those types which came out to replace a prior type in a role or usage.

Just my opinion, of course!

I think I'll assuage my literal and curmudgeonly narrow-mindedness by doing 231 6-rad followed by a 232 8-rad! That one is a clear replacement of one type in service by another type!

Cheers!

Bob

are we seeking a "simple change in production details" as being a "replacement", or are we talking about functional replacement in service of one type by another?

Wow this is getting complicated.

Heres a simple example where you all can choose 2 from: Comet to Centurian to Chieftain to Challenger!
Of course you don´t have to use these.

Paul

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Wow this is getting complicated.

Heres a simple example where you all can choose 2 from: Comet to Centurian to Chieftain to Challenger!
Of course you don´t have to use these.

Paul

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O.k it´s still looking a little difficult, here´s some
more that should work:
M4A? to M47/48 to M60 to Abrams M1
T34/?mm to IS1 to T54 to T72

That´s all I´m going to add without leaning out of the window.
The thing that starting to get me is this, Christopher has put an interesting campaign together, with a set of his rules, and now some people are trying to find loopholes in
them. Why can´t we just do what Chris wants?
No hard feelings guys, but it doesn´t just happen here it´s
all over the place, and we all do it. Should we think about that or not?
Paul