California, United States
Joined: January 30, 2013
KitMaker: 537 posts
Armorama: 531 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 07, 2013 - 12:28 PM UTC
Quoted Text
That's true. However, it's the little bitty things, the itty bitty things, that P!&& me off...
I confess to being a little bit OCD on stuff like this.
I don't even know what the other logo looks like. I can always cover this one up with the barbed wire roll that's going to hang on the front, maybe an oil can thrown in there.
I'll dig out my books, see how bad it bothers me.
Russel, here is a link to the thread that originally shed light on this detail. But just in case that doesn't convince you, there is a reference to this very issue written in the "lioness & lion of the line" Vol. 2 pg. 37, the caption that describes figure 15. That's Dr. Robert Manasherob, the renown IDF Sherman expert/author writing about it. That link should answer all your questions.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/message/1311136010/Asymmetric+co-driver+hood+casting+on+new+Tamiya+M1+Super+Sherman-%21 I had a very passionate debate with Kurt Laughlin, who happens to be one of the most knowledgeable sherman experts out there, the guy is collaborating on the new Son of Sherman series of books that are pretty close to coming out. Anyways, about seven months after that thread, I read that caption in Dr. Ms books, I know for a fact that he reads ML, but I had no idea it would cause quite a stir, needless to say, I had never heard anyone else refer to sherman hoods as asymmetric before I wrote that. Kudos to the engineers at Tamiya that spotted that to begin with.
Russel scroll down to post response #5. Where it says pics show difference.
Texas, United States
Joined: June 12, 2007
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,696 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 07, 2013 - 01:08 PM UTC
Pedro, I don't doubt you, it's just the fact that I didn't find out about this until I had the color coat on, which will make it difficult to fix.
I'll look at the link, which I DO appreciate you posting.
Edit: OK, I got it. Not a big problem, since there should be no foundry mark there, which I can fix.
Pedro, thanks again.
Texas, United States
Joined: March 08, 2010
KitMaker: 2,465 posts
Armorama: 2,383 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 07, 2013 - 04:18 PM UTC
Hey Brother Russ,
Once again, great paint work fella! GAWD i want to build this kit!
Gary
Texas, United States
Joined: June 12, 2007
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,696 posts
Posted: Friday, February 08, 2013 - 09:56 AM UTC
Gary, you can dooo eeet! I'd like to see you take on it.
OK, here's the fix on the foundry mark, and some shading with Humbrol tan.
Everything now has another very light coat of the Tamiya light tan, maybe clear gloss tonight.
Texas, United States
Joined: June 12, 2007
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
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Posted: Monday, February 11, 2013 - 06:05 AM UTC
Back in one color. The Humbrol tan is almost gone, exactly what I was hoping for. Gloss clear drying now.....
Edit: Actually, these two pics are before the shading...I must have "lost" the current ones. Oh well.
California, United States
Joined: January 30, 2013
KitMaker: 537 posts
Armorama: 531 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 - 04:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Gary, you can dooo eeet! I'd like to see you take on it.
OK, here's the fix on the foundry mark, and some shading with Humbrol tan.
Everything now has another very light coat of the Tamiya light tan, maybe clear gloss tonight.
Russel, I can't tell it was ever there, great job
Texas, United States
Joined: June 12, 2007
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 - 07:00 AM UTC
Thanks, and thanks for the pointer. That's why I like and use the "CC" board.
Texas, United States
Joined: June 12, 2007
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 11:06 AM UTC
A little progress over the weekend.....
Wash applied:
And mostly scrubbed off:
More scrubbing, detail painting and dusting to follow. I have to say that I initially intended to do a "clean" build, but I forgot I don't have a good thinner for PolyScale acrylics, so the brown wash is staying on more than I wanted it to, looking like chips and scrapes. I may actually try to find a thinner that cuts the PolyScale without getting into the Tamiya tan, otherwise this thing is going to look like Day 7 of the Six Day War.....
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 12:52 PM UTC
Looking good. I think you can fix it by drybrushing a slightly lighter shade of base color over it, and then spraying a very thinned out dust color.
I'm doing mine with the Legend update - not going to hijack your thread with photos, but it really adds to the look.
A strong man stands up for himself; A stronger man stands up for others.
Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter-accusations.
He is not Khan who calls himself Khan. Afghan proverb
Texas, United States
Joined: June 12, 2007
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 01:17 PM UTC
Thanks, Robert. I'll be doing something to lighten it back up, probably pastels since I don't use an airbrush. I've got some more wash removal to do still too.
If I'd ever seen a pic of one of these things with heavily worn paint (other than a range target) I'd leave it alone...
About the Legends update, what do you think of it?
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 01:50 PM UTC
The Legend set is well worth it. I like to do the PE brush guards on all of my Shermans, although in leaner times I was known to just thin them out. The update also give you an a$$load of jerry cans, which I'll be needing for another project. I'm going to use these sets to dress up my old M50s as well.
A strong man stands up for himself; A stronger man stands up for others.
Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter-accusations.
He is not Khan who calls himself Khan. Afghan proverb
Georgia, United States
Joined: January 31, 2010
KitMaker: 2,191 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 02:05 PM UTC
That's quite the wash... I typically use a MUCH thinner wash.
Join AMPS.
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Texas, United States
Joined: March 08, 2010
KitMaker: 2,465 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 02:19 PM UTC
Hey Russ, When i saw the first pic...i thought What the heck! just happened...then i saw the second pic and went WHEEEEEW!
Never seen a wash done that way but i seems quite effective. You use a brush or cotton swab to take off the extra wash? I could see some potential for that technique you used. What wash do you use? Keep on pluggin away Russ, its comin along nice buddy.
Gary
Texas, United States
Joined: June 12, 2007
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 10:14 AM UTC
Robert I almost always use very heavy washes, looks crazy I agree. Where I messed up with this one is by using a paint that I didn't have the proper thinner for.
Gary, I use a Q-tip and brushes, mostly the Q-tip.
Today, I started dty brushing with a very close match to the base color and detail painting, but I'm not at all happy. In fact, if I wasn't working right now, this model would be soaking in oven cleaner.
Georgia, United States
Joined: January 31, 2010
KitMaker: 2,191 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 10:40 AM UTC
Russell,
Where do you think you get an advantage from the very heavy wash? Nothing is coming to mind, but it's an interesting concept.
Join AMPS.
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Texas, United States
Joined: June 12, 2007
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Posted: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 12:14 PM UTC
By doing an all-over wash, I totally avoid water marks, and the removal, or scrubbing, leaves a totally flat finish. I've always had a problem with discoloration or water marks at the edges of a pin wash, so I tried combining a filter and wash one time and liked the result. The color of the wash I use varies, but it's almost always some brown that's quite a bit darker than the color coat.
This one looks bad because I used the wrong manufacturer's paint. I prefer Vallejo, Tamiya or Testors, because ordinary rubbing alcohol works as a thinner. I goofed up here. Normally, all of the brown that would be left would be make the model look like it had a nice pin wash. Airplane guys do something similar to pick up panel lines.....I think they call it a "sludge wash".
Anyway, this one is a bad example of the method, obviously.
Georgia, United States
Joined: January 31, 2010
KitMaker: 2,191 posts
Armorama: 1,814 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 12:28 PM UTC
Quoted Text
By doing an all-over wash, I totally avoid water marks, and the removal, or scrubbing, leaves a totally flat finish. I've always had a problem with discoloration or water marks at the edges of a pin wash, so I tried combining a filter and wash one time and liked the result. The color of the wash I use varies, but it's almost always some brown that's quite a bit darker than the color coat.
This one looks bad because I used the wrong manufacturer's paint. I prefer Vallejo, Tamiya or Testors, because ordinary rubbing alcohol works as a thinner. I goofed up here. Normally, all of the brown that would be left would be make the model look like it had a nice pin wash. Airplane guys do something similar to pick up panel lines.....I think they call it a "sludge wash".
Anyway, this one is a bad example of the method, obviously.
I'm with you on the 'all over' wash. It's just when I do it, it's MUCH thinner, so I barely have to remove any of it. And I use thinned oils.
Join AMPS.
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Texas, United States
Joined: June 12, 2007
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Posted: Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 11:11 AM UTC
Jesse, I used to do exactly the same thing, and then I started playing with heavy washes and using the removal process to change shade and tint. It usually works a whole lot better than this example. If photobucket will cooperate and quit locking up my laptop, I'll post a pic of a Sherman and a KT that I had much more success with.....
The Tiger is intentionally left dirty, that's the look I wanted. The Sherman was depicted more dusty and faded.
And BTW, the M51 is taking a bath in MeanGreen right now...
I want this one to look freshly painted, but Dusty and I wasn't feeling good about where it was going. I'll probably get paint back on it tomorrow.
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
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Posted: Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 11:57 AM UTC
I'll have to try MeanGreen. I'm simply not able to master the hairspray technique and the salt method has obvious limitations.
Ideals are peaceful. History is violent.
Texas, United States
Joined: March 08, 2010
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Posted: Friday, February 22, 2013 - 07:45 AM UTC
Russ...my man...sorry you had to do that bro. Ill have to try the mean green myself as the Brake fluid bath works but GOOD GAWD tha mess! Good luck on M51 part 2!
Gary
Texas, United States
Joined: June 12, 2007
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
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Posted: Friday, February 22, 2013 - 10:12 AM UTC
I'm going to have to do a derelict or something pretty soon, make this all work for me.....maybe a Lebanese M50.
So the M51 is drying after a good rinse in warm water, but I'm out of bench time for the week. I'll get something up in a week or so when I can get back to it. Thanks to all for the input, it's been honest and helpful.
Joel_W
Associate EditorNew York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Friday, February 22, 2013 - 10:16 AM UTC
Russel, never tried Mean Green to remove paint before. I've heard that it does work given enough time.
I'm with Jesse on a much thinner overall wash. Mine are like 90% thinner. Usually, I need to apply a 2nd coat to get it to the shade I'm looking for.
Joel
On my Workbench:
Monogram 1/24 scale 427 Shelby Cobra
Just Completed:
Beemax 1/24 scale BMW M3 E30 1992 Evolution II
Texas, United States
Joined: June 12, 2007
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,696 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 23, 2013 - 04:35 AM UTC
I'm probably going to do something different this time, more along the lines of what is more conventional in the way of washes. It's back in tan, after a go-over with a jeweler's pick to dig paint out of cracks, gaps, panel lines, etc. I'm out of town for a while so the Tamiya tan will be good and dry before it gets a wash. Definitely no more PollyScale dark brown...
Back in tan:
Joel, I'm not swold on the MeanGreen. I tried it at 20/1 and 10/1, didn't do much other than cause very small "bubbles", but it didn't hurt the tarps I amde from Aves, so that's a good thing. I actually got the most lifting action from good old warm water. Of course, that may be because the model soaked in MeanGreen for something like 36 hours first.
Joel_W
Associate Editor New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
Armorama: 1,143 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 23, 2013 - 05:38 AM UTC
Russel, glad you're back to the basic color. I would think that a soaking in ISO alcohol would strip the acrylic paint off. Use of a toothbrush is usually required no matter what method you use.
Just keep in mind that less is easy to build up by layers.
Looking forward to your next update.
Joel
On my Workbench:
Monogram 1/24 scale 427 Shelby Cobra
Just Completed:
Beemax 1/24 scale BMW M3 E30 1992 Evolution II
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 23, 2013 - 07:56 AM UTC
From base to top, it usually takes me twelve layers at least. I include the filters and pre-shading, in this figure.
Ideals are peaceful. History is violent.
