Constructive Feedback
For in-progress or completed build photos. Give and get contructive feedback!
Tamiya M51
rfbaer
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Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 10:58 AM UTC
Pics as of this afternoon, detail painting still going on.





I'm slowly getting where I want to be, finally.
retiredyank
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Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 11:30 AM UTC
Awesome work! It seems you nailed the wash.
rfbaer
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Posted: Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 11:42 AM UTC
Thanks, Matt. I'm seeing the progress I wanted now, still have some cleanup to do, and need to decide on what (if any) more markings to add.
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2013 - 12:32 AM UTC
Russel, Looking real good. weathering sure looks realistic, and it's not over done. Way too many modelers just seem to go crazy with weathering. In 1/35th scale, often less is more to the viewer's eye.
Joel
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Posted: Friday, March 08, 2013 - 05:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Pics as of this afternoon, detail painting still going on.





I'm slowly getting where I want to be, finally.


Russel, she's a real looker. I got to admit, I've never heard of afv modelers using that technique. I think you're on to something. Would you be kind enough to explain the process I'm always interested in trying new stuff.
rfbaer
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Posted: Saturday, March 09, 2013 - 06:40 AM UTC
Thanks, guys, I greatly appreciate the feedback.
Pedro, I'll give you the high-points shortly (during PM break). It's very simple, just a little time-consuming.
rfbaer
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Posted: Saturday, March 09, 2013 - 01:15 PM UTC
Okay, it's slow here so I've got a bit of time. Pedro, here it is, as succinctly as I can:
Starting with a glossy enamel or laquer base paint that's as close to the desired base color as you can get, apply an overall wash of the color you would normally use to apply a pin and/or dirt wash. I use a large-ish, soft bristle brush for this step, as the only gotta-do here is to achieve complete coverage. The important thing here is that the wash must be a type of paint that is thinned and easily removed with a non-aggressive solvent, like water or rubbing alcohol (Tamiya acrylics work well for me). Next, after letting the wash dry to the touch, begin the removal process. For this I use a Q-tip moistened with rubbing alcohol, cheap vodka or water. Alcohol leaves a very slight haze which dries totally flat. Vodka and water usually leave no residue. The choice of solvents used here can, by design, influence your finish. I have found that the alcohol haze can be removed with a Q-tip and water. Also, the amount of wash left will influence your final color just as a filter will. And, a particular area can be "polished" to show a cleaner area, such as the top of a turret or high-traffic area.
I have used this technique over a flat color coat, but the color coat will absorb a portion of the wash color, which can be good or bad, and can be used to your benefit.
Back to the wash-removal process, the amount of wash left on is minimal, and can be done in such a way as to create highlights, almost like color modulation. For detailed and tight areas, I'll use a brush of the appropriate size, moistened with solvent, and move the wash to where I need it or where I can get to it with a Q-tip to remove it completely.
Experimentation is the ticket here, and I'm sure there are variations of this I haven't tried or thought of yet. I mainly started doing it because I don't have an airbrush and was looking for a way to blend color with dirt and grime, and leave a dusty, flat finish. I was also having problems with "water marks" when doing pin washes. This technique does all that for me, and combined with wet and dry pastels, can leave a very realistic appearance. I've used this process on desert tan, OD, German dark yellow and British dk. green, and two and three tone camo. A quick coat of clear flat, pigments, and I'm done.
Hope this is clear enough to be of help......
retiredyank
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Posted: Saturday, March 09, 2013 - 06:31 PM UTC
I'll be trying that wash technique. Thanks for asking, Pedro.
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Posted: Sunday, March 10, 2013 - 01:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Okay, it's slow here so I've got a bit of time. Pedro, here it is, as succinctly as I can:
Starting with a glossy enamel or laquer base paint that's as close to the desired base color as you can get, apply an overall wash of the color you would normally use to apply a pin and/or dirt wash. I use a large-ish, soft bristle brush for this step, as the only gotta-do here is to achieve complete coverage. The important thing here is that the wash must be a type of paint that is thinned and easily removed with a non-aggressive solvent, like water or rubbing alcohol (Tamiya acrylics work well for me). Next, after letting the wash dry to the touch, begin the removal process. For this I use a Q-tip moistened with rubbing alcohol, cheap vodka or water. Alcohol leaves a very slight haze which dries totally flat. Vodka and water usually leave no residue. The choice of solvents used here can, by design, influence your finish. I have found that the alcohol haze can be removed with a Q-tip and water. Also, the amount of wash left will influence your final color just as a filter will. And, a particular area can be "polished" to show a cleaner area, such as the top of a turret or high-traffic area.
I have used this technique over a flat color coat, but the color coat will absorb a portion of the wash color, which can be good or bad, and can be used to your benefit.
Back to the wash-removal process, the amount of wash left on is minimal, and can be done in such a way as to create highlights, almost like color modulation. For detailed and tight areas, I'll use a brush of the appropriate size, moistened with solvent, and move the wash to where I need it or where I can get to it with a Q-tip to remove it completely.
Experimentation is the ticket here, and I'm sure there are variations of this I haven't tried or thought of yet. I mainly started doing it because I don't have an airbrush and was looking for a way to blend color with dirt and grime, and leave a dusty, flat finish. I was also having problems with "water marks" when doing pin washes. This technique does all that for me, and combined with wet and dry pastels, can leave a very realistic appearance. I've used this process on desert tan, OD, German dark yellow and British dk. green, and two and three tone camo. A quick coat of clear flat, pigments, and I'm done.
Hope this is clear enough to be of help......



Thanks Russel! Too often folks refuse to share techniques, much appreciated and will definitely give it a try
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, March 10, 2013 - 03:47 AM UTC
Russel, Looks really super to this point.
Joel
rfbaer
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Posted: Monday, March 11, 2013 - 05:42 AM UTC
Joel, thanks.
Pedro, what's the point in posting a WIP and being in a community if sharing isn't involved?
Matt, it's an easy to use technique, using simple materials.
It should be readily adaptable to your needs.
rfbaer
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Posted: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 - 08:54 AM UTC
A little more progress today, mostly cleaning up the wash and detail painting, and some work on the mantlet dust cover and soft stowage. I also got the tracks joined today, hope to paint those tomorrow.
The pics so far:




I've also been working on creating highlights on areas of the hull and turret that are high-wear areas or would be "bright" due to sunlight. I'm doing this by removing ALL the wash color and by adding painted-on bright points as appropriate.
All thoughts welcome, and thanks for checking in, as always.
retiredyank
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Posted: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 - 09:09 AM UTC
Wow! I guess there is always one more thing to do. I usually add highlights, prior to a wash. However, you use a different wash method than me.
rfbaer
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Posted: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 - 12:31 PM UTC
Yeah, this thread has convinced me that I use a different wash method than most everybody.....

My wash method is pretty agressive, so I lose some of the brighter areas, plus not having an airbrush means no post or pre shading. If I want to "brighten" something, I've got to use a post-wash application. On this one, I've used a very light tan acrylic on the tops of the light guards and a couple of brackets here and there is about it. Elsewhere, I just scrub ALL the wash off, like on the front corners of the hull and top edges of the turret.
retiredyank
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Posted: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 - 01:34 PM UTC
Buy an airbrush. It took me some time to get one. But, I've found it invaluable. There are some effects you just can't achieve without one.
Joel_W
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Posted: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 12:06 AM UTC
Russel, a investment in a quality air brush is the single best thing you could do to improve your modeling to the next level. Once you learn the basics, you can accomplish amazing things. I've been using my Paasche single action 1H for 40 years, and just last year finally replaced it with another 1H. There is no real reason for a double action gun for modeling. 95% of the time you'll be using the air action full on.

As far as worn areas and highlights, I do that by air brushing those areas with a lighter shade of the base color prior to filters then washes. By controlling the intensity of the filters and washes over those areas with thinner, the final effects look natural. Dry brushing, chipping, rust, etc. follows. Then comes dirt and dust, which also helps to blend everything together.

Joel
retiredyank
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Posted: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 12:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

...There is no real reason for a double action gun for modeling. 95% of the time you'll be using the air action full on....


I disagree. I rarely use my Badger Sotar at full blast. Through careful manipulation of the trigger, you can achieve a hairline pattern without a pressure regulator. With my Iwata HP-C Plus, I find it sprays too much paint if you open it up.
Joel_W
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Posted: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 12:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

...There is no real reason for a double action gun for modeling. 95% of the time you'll be using the air action full on....


I disagree. I rarely use my Badger Sotar at full blast. Through careful manipulation of the trigger, you can achieve a hairline pattern without a pressure regulator. With my Iwata HP-C Plus, I find it sprays too much paint if you open it up.



Matt, all you're really doing is varying the AP to draw a fine line, assuming that you paint mix is correct. Like I said, I've been using the same single action gun for more then 40 years, and have it down to a science. For a fine line, adjusted paint mix, setting the regulator knob to 12-15 psi takes less then 30 sec. From that point on I don't have to worry or play with the button trying to hold it steady for the entire painting session. And for free hand camo applications can be a hour or two easily. I can take a break, and when I go back to it, I can easily and quickly duplicate my procedure.

Like I said, I've been doing it this way for more then 40 years. I like the simplicity of a single action gun, and it's ease of clean up. I've tried a few double action brushes, and just don't care for them. Their primary use is for artists working in watercolors and inks.

Joel
retiredyank
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Posted: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 12:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

...There is no real reason for a double action gun for modeling. 95% of the time you'll be using the air action full on....


I disagree. I rarely use my Badger Sotar at full blast. Through careful manipulation of the trigger, you can achieve a hairline pattern without a pressure regulator. With my Iwata HP-C Plus, I find it sprays too much paint if you open it up.



Matt, all you're really doing is varying the AP to draw a fine line, assuming that you paint mix is correct. Like I said, I've been using the same single action gun for more then 40 years, and have it down to a science. For a fine line, adjusted paint mix, setting the regulator knob to 12-15 psi takes less then 30 sec. From that point on I don't have to worry or play with the button trying to hold it steady for the entire painting session. And for free hand camo applications can be a hour or two easily. I can take a break, and when I go back to it, I can easily and quickly duplicate my procedure.

Like I said, I've been doing it this way for more then 40 years. I like the simplicity of a single action gun, and it's ease of clean up. I've tried a few double action brushes, and just don't care for them. Their primary use is for artists working in watercolors and inks.

Joel


I find a double action ab very user friendly. I can take breaks too. My Sotar has a dial that sets the needle to draw back a certain distance. Therefore, I don't need to adjust it every time. I'm sorry you haven't joined the revolution, but that's not my concern.
Joel_W
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Posted: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 12:59 AM UTC
Matt, Everyone has their own way of doing things. Also keep in mind that not everyone wants to or can spend a few hundred dollars on a air gun. The Paasche 1H system costs less the $100.
'nough said.

Joel
retiredyank
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Posted: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 01:42 AM UTC
If you do look at getting an airbrush, the Sotar goes for $74 on Amazon.
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Posted: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 01:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

...There is no real reason for a double action gun for modeling. 95% of the time you'll be using the air action full on....


I disagree. I rarely use my Badger Sotar at full blast. Through careful manipulation of the trigger, you can achieve a hairline pattern without a pressure regulator. With my Iwata HP-C Plus, I find it sprays too much paint if you open it up.



Matt, all you're really doing is varying the AP to draw a fine line, assuming that you paint mix is correct. Like I said, I've been using the same single action gun for more then 40 years, and have it down to a science. For a fine line, adjusted paint mix, setting the regulator knob to 12-15 psi takes less then 30 sec. From that point on I don't have to worry or play with the button trying to hold it steady for the entire painting session. And for free hand camo applications can be a hour or two easily. I can take a break, and when I go back to it, I can easily and quickly duplicate my procedure.

Like I said, I've been doing it this way for more then 40 years. I like the simplicity of a single action gun, and it's ease of clean up. I've tried a few double action brushes, and just don't care for them. Their primary use is for artists working in watercolors and inks.

Joel


I find a double action ab very user friendly. I can take breaks too. My Sotar has a dial that sets the needle to draw back a certain distance. Therefore, I don't need to adjust it every time. I'm sorry you haven't joined the revolution, but that's not my concern.





Oh please Matt... the models Joel has posted online are every bit as good as what you've posted. Revolution...? pftt...
Removed by original poster on 05/14/19 - 01:16:48 (GMT).
retiredyank
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Posted: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 09:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

...There is no real reason for a double action gun for modeling. 95% of the time you'll be using the air action full on....


I disagree. I rarely use my Badger Sotar at full blast. Through careful manipulation of the trigger, you can achieve a hairline pattern without a pressure regulator. With my Iwata HP-C Plus, I find it sprays too much paint if you open it up.



Matt, all you're really doing is varying the AP to draw a fine line, assuming that you paint mix is correct. Like I said, I've been using the same single action gun for more then 40 years, and have it down to a science. For a fine line, adjusted paint mix, setting the regulator knob to 12-15 psi takes less then 30 sec. From that point on I don't have to worry or play with the button trying to hold it steady for the entire painting session. And for free hand camo applications can be a hour or two easily. I can take a break, and when I go back to it, I can easily and quickly duplicate my procedure.

Like I said, I've been doing it this way for more then 40 years. I like the simplicity of a single action gun, and it's ease of clean up. I've tried a few double action brushes, and just don't care for them. Their primary use is for artists working in watercolors and inks.

Joel


I find a double action ab very user friendly. I can take breaks too. My Sotar has a dial that sets the needle to draw back a certain distance. Therefore, I don't need to adjust it every time. I'm sorry you haven't joined the revolution, but that's not my concern.





Oh please Matt... the models Joel has posted online are every bit as good as what you've posted. Revolution...? pftt...


I never said they weren't. And, with 40 years of experience, I would expect his model building ability to be light years ahead of mine.
rfbaer
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Posted: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 10:19 AM UTC
If I may?
Gentlemen, my physical circumstances do not allow for the use of an airbrush at this time. I had one 35 years ago and did just fine with it, thank you. If and when I'm back in a situation where I can use one, I'm all in. I'm not some kind of Luddite, nor am I convinced I can "do it better my way".
Also, while I appreciate feedback on any and all WIPs I put up, I feel like I'm trying to float this thread around the Horn of Somalia, it's been hi-jacked enough already.
And so, pics so far.




Markings are intentionally faint. I want the look of hastily hand painted markings on a well used vehicle.