couple of questions:
1. are there any new AFV's in this war that didnt took part in the first gulf war, which ones?
2. are most of the AFV's in this war the same marks,types or version as in the first war?
3. which models are the best for modeling the current war (brand,version)
Thanks
Eran - who suddenly feel an urge to build an M1A1
Hosted by Darren Baker
AFV's of the current War
ekaufman
Joined: June 17, 2002
KitMaker: 217 posts
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Posted: Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 08:26 AM UTC
GeneralFailure
Joined: February 15, 2002
KitMaker: 2,289 posts
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Posted: Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 09:18 AM UTC
Eran ! You have potential as a mind-reader. I logged on to ask almost the exact same question tonight.
I spent most of the weekend watching BBC world, CNN and the likes and saw hours of Iraq war. I saw strange and puzzling things.
1) on the first press conference from Doha, I saw five or six people on the podium with desert camo uniforms - but all DIFFERENT ones. I know the general's uniform since the Afghanistan war. The British desert camo looked familiar too. But then there were two other patterns I never saw before. Didn't anyone else notice this ? Were those US ?
And what happened to the Desert Storm '"chocolate chips" uniform ? Today I saw an Iraqi AA gunner wearing such Desert Storm uniform with a goatskin waistcoat over it !
Where can I find an overview of the current camo patterns (if that exists) ?
2) Are those M2 or M3 Bradleys or did I spot something else there too? I think I saw new or altered Bradleys on the news...
3) I saw several vehicles with a bright red fluorescent piece of cloth folded on the back. What is its use ?
4) My hands itch to start building a M1, too. I'll certainly do that in the near future.
I spent most of the weekend watching BBC world, CNN and the likes and saw hours of Iraq war. I saw strange and puzzling things.
1) on the first press conference from Doha, I saw five or six people on the podium with desert camo uniforms - but all DIFFERENT ones. I know the general's uniform since the Afghanistan war. The British desert camo looked familiar too. But then there were two other patterns I never saw before. Didn't anyone else notice this ? Were those US ?
And what happened to the Desert Storm '"chocolate chips" uniform ? Today I saw an Iraqi AA gunner wearing such Desert Storm uniform with a goatskin waistcoat over it !
Where can I find an overview of the current camo patterns (if that exists) ?
2) Are those M2 or M3 Bradleys or did I spot something else there too? I think I saw new or altered Bradleys on the news...
3) I saw several vehicles with a bright red fluorescent piece of cloth folded on the back. What is its use ?
4) My hands itch to start building a M1, too. I'll certainly do that in the near future.
Desert-Fox
Joined: October 22, 2002
KitMaker: 652 posts
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Posted: Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 09:48 AM UTC
General,
The answer to the red piece of cloth on top of AFV's is:
This is an air recognition banner that is placed on top of allied AFV's to identify it as "Friend" I believe that the colour is flourescent or more to the point DAYGLO ORANGE.
I think that the Bradleys are Mk 3's
There are two dofferent patterns to US camo, but I dont know what they are.
HTH
The answer to the red piece of cloth on top of AFV's is:
This is an air recognition banner that is placed on top of allied AFV's to identify it as "Friend" I believe that the colour is flourescent or more to the point DAYGLO ORANGE.
I think that the Bradleys are Mk 3's
There are two dofferent patterns to US camo, but I dont know what they are.
HTH
blaster76
Joined: September 15, 2002
KitMaker: 8,985 posts
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Posted: Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 10:08 AM UTC
My what sharp little eyes you have. Are they still using the same camo's they used in the last desert war ? The Iraq's are using the same equipment they used in the last war....what they had left henh henh
Maki
Senior Editor
Joined: February 13, 2002
KitMaker: 5,579 posts
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Posted: Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 10:23 AM UTC
Quoted Text
You have potential as a mind-reader. I logged on to ask almost the exact same question tonight.
Hmm.. It seems we are spending too much time together here on Armorama, cause we think in a simmilar manner. I actually wanted to know some URLs with pics of the vehicles from current conflict.
1) I believe there were US 3-color camo, British desert DPM, Danish camo... hmm I don't remember others. US 6-color camo (chocolate chips) is no longer used for desert scenarios as the browns and blacks are in great contrast with the desert.
on the patterns look here:
world camo 1
world camo 2
DS1 camo
new camo
3) Like Desert Fox said it is an air ID panel.. I'm rather intereted in some other sort of ID that is on the sides of the vehicles.. In this picture it is just in front of the typical black chevron (like some sort of grille). What is that?
Mario M.
Maki
Senior EditorJoined: February 13, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 10:29 AM UTC
The other thing I wanted to ask has to do with uniforms... I have seen that most of US soldiers wear woodland camo. Why is that? Why don't they use desert camo?
Mario M.
Mario M.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 10:57 AM UTC
That is the IFF panel (Identify friend or foe) gives a hot spot in a thermal sight so the gunner may identify the vehicle as friendly. Kind of works like the rear window defogger on your car. The florescent panel on top of the Rover has been in use for decades and the other side has a day-glo pink shine. Keeps aircraft from targeting you in daylight.
Chocolate chips were replaced by a 3 color set of DCUs in 1992, although chocolate chips were is use by US forces throughout the 90s as well as some still around today.
As far as what vehicles are in use not used 12 years ago, the M1A2, M2/3A2 ODS, M2A3, M3A3, M109A6 Paladin, M998A1 (and variants), M88A2, M6 Linebacker, M7 B-FIST, FMTV, and many more.
As far as current kits, Trumpeter or DML M1A1 or M1A2, Tamiya M2A2, Italeri or Revell of Germany M109A6 Paladin, AFV Club M88A1 (use AEF Designs conversion for A2), Italeri HEMTTs, DML MLRS, dozens of kits out there.
Chocolate chips were replaced by a 3 color set of DCUs in 1992, although chocolate chips were is use by US forces throughout the 90s as well as some still around today.
As far as what vehicles are in use not used 12 years ago, the M1A2, M2/3A2 ODS, M2A3, M3A3, M109A6 Paladin, M998A1 (and variants), M88A2, M6 Linebacker, M7 B-FIST, FMTV, and many more.
As far as current kits, Trumpeter or DML M1A1 or M1A2, Tamiya M2A2, Italeri or Revell of Germany M109A6 Paladin, AFV Club M88A1 (use AEF Designs conversion for A2), Italeri HEMTTs, DML MLRS, dozens of kits out there.
Kelley
Joined: November 21, 2002
KitMaker: 1,966 posts
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Posted: Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 01:06 PM UTC
The Brits are using the Challenger 2 which was not around in 91. They might have other new AFV's but I am not familiar with them. Trumpeter makes the only plastic Challenger 2. Accurate Armor, and Cromwell make resin versions, very nice but also very expensive. I have also heard Accurate Armor will be releasing an update set for the Trumpeter model and the up-armored version of the Chally 2 being used in Iraq. Below is a link to a site that has some good pics of the British troops and equipment before and during the current conflict.
Mike
http://www.operations.mod.uk/telic/photo_gallery.htm
Mike
http://www.operations.mod.uk/telic/photo_gallery.htm
Manchu34
Joined: March 08, 2002
KitMaker: 493 posts
Armorama: 361 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 02:36 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Eran ! You have potential as a mind-reader. I logged on to ask almost the exact same question tonight.
2) Are those M2 or M3 Bradleys or did I spot something else there too? I think I saw new or altered Bradleys on the news...
3) I saw several vehicles with a bright red fluorescent piece of cloth folded on the back. What is its use ?
There are some new modified versions of the Bradleys. I know you'll find them in 4 ID (reflagged 2AD) of the III Corp, Ft. Hood, TX. When I retired in 1996, they were in the process of giving the Forward Observers attachments, the M2 Bradley with their spotting lasres inside the TOW Launchers just like they did with the M113 FISTV.
Also they were assinging the stinger teams with Bradleys as well. Unsure of their configuration. I never got to see how they were being set up.
The bright red fluorescent piece is what is called an IFF panel. They are properly called a VS Panel. However, the color is fluorescent Orange or International Orange. Also on the reverse side is usually a fluorescent Pink. BTW, if you want the size of them, I have one at the house and could provide the diamentions of it.
airwarrior
Joined: November 21, 2002
KitMaker: 2,085 posts
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Posted: Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 02:39 PM UTC
I'm pretty sure the stryker is being used don't know if its in a kit yet tho
Grasshopp12
Joined: September 28, 2002
KitMaker: 757 posts
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Posted: Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 02:49 PM UTC
In reference to the camo patterns you are seeing, you are probably also seeing USMC Desert MARPAT (the brown pixelated looking camo) as well as Australian camo (has rounded spots of color). I have also seen what appears to be Desert Flecktarn a number of times, and of course British Desert DPM.
GeneralFailure
Joined: February 15, 2002
KitMaker: 2,289 posts
Armorama: 1,231 posts
Posted: Monday, March 24, 2003 - 02:31 AM UTC
Hey ! That's a LOT of interesting information. Thanks, guys ! :-)
Some of those features would look good on a dio...
The strange desert camo I saw at the press conference was probably australian. i found something throught Maki's link that looks a lot like it...
Funny thing is : the soldier I saw with the chocolate chip camo and the goat skin garnment was IRAQI... Probably something he found on the market after the previous war. I think he'll be in my next dio...
Some of those features would look good on a dio...
The strange desert camo I saw at the press conference was probably australian. i found something throught Maki's link that looks a lot like it...
Funny thing is : the soldier I saw with the chocolate chip camo and the goat skin garnment was IRAQI... Probably something he found on the market after the previous war. I think he'll be in my next dio...
Desert-Fox
Joined: October 22, 2002
KitMaker: 652 posts
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Posted: Monday, March 24, 2003 - 04:20 AM UTC
http://www.accurate-armour.com/
Check out this great site for alot of the british equipment being used in the Gulf area, around Basra and Umm Qasr, HTH
Check out this great site for alot of the british equipment being used in the Gulf area, around Basra and Umm Qasr, HTH
Desert-Fox
Joined: October 22, 2002
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Posted: Monday, March 24, 2003 - 04:25 AM UTC
MichalBT
Joined: July 03, 2002
KitMaker: 326 posts
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Posted: Monday, March 24, 2003 - 06:49 AM UTC
Airwarrior,
Are you sure that Strykers are in the Gulf? I found information that first unit of US Army ( Stryker Brigade Combat Team) would be ready in May, 2003.
Michal
Are you sure that Strykers are in the Gulf? I found information that first unit of US Army ( Stryker Brigade Combat Team) would be ready in May, 2003.
Michal
bison44
Joined: August 27, 2002
KitMaker: 471 posts
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Posted: Monday, March 24, 2003 - 08:20 AM UTC
Are the new eurofighters operational yet?
Grasshopp12
Joined: September 28, 2002
KitMaker: 757 posts
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Posted: Monday, March 24, 2003 - 08:27 AM UTC
Now that you mention it Michal, I seem to recall something along those lines too. Maybe one of our current military members could enlighten us here.
Jan - There was an article on the news a while back about Iraq ordering a large number of US and UK style DCUs for use in campaigns against the Iraqi people. They were allegedly going to have Iraqi SpecOps in these DCUs filmed terrorizing the population, and then they were going to claim that it was done by coalition forces.
Jan - There was an article on the news a while back about Iraq ordering a large number of US and UK style DCUs for use in campaigns against the Iraqi people. They were allegedly going to have Iraqi SpecOps in these DCUs filmed terrorizing the population, and then they were going to claim that it was done by coalition forces.
Whiskey
Joined: May 30, 2002
KitMaker: 1,038 posts
Armorama: 377 posts
Posted: Monday, March 24, 2003 - 08:29 AM UTC
I think what Maki was talking about guys was the MOPP/NBC gear that everyone is wearing.It is the 3-color Woodland pattern but really its not designed for camoflauge,its designed to prevent chemical or biological weapons from harming the soldier.
And about the AFVs,dont forget the ol M113!!!!!!It may be old but it does the job better than anything else.Although the A2 and A3 models are the ones in use lol.
And about the AFVs,dont forget the ol M113!!!!!!It may be old but it does the job better than anything else.Although the A2 and A3 models are the ones in use lol.
Desert-Fox
Joined: October 22, 2002
KitMaker: 652 posts
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Posted: Monday, March 24, 2003 - 08:34 AM UTC
Bison, The Eurofighter is NOT operational as yet, however the new GR4 Tornado is there as is the British Harrier, and doing ALL the air to air refuelling is the RAF
PLMP110
Joined: September 26, 2002
KitMaker: 1,318 posts
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Posted: Monday, March 24, 2003 - 09:48 AM UTC
I have see US troops in three uniforms. The ubiquitous woodland. The new three tone desert. The new Marine MARPAT. The latter is very similiar to the Canadian pattern. The MARPAT is only used by the Marine Corps.
Patrick
Patrick
joina25
Joined: March 07, 2003
KitMaker: 19 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, March 24, 2003 - 12:28 PM UTC
Does anyone know what the rectangular light beige patch is on the front of the Challenger 2's? i have also seen a similar thing on the M1's it is onthe front sloping armour. is it some kind of reactive armour? The Challenger 1 did not have it. Good to see the 30 year old scimitars in action in Basra as well at least some of our kit is built to last
sniper
Joined: May 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,065 posts
Armorama: 508 posts
Posted: Monday, March 24, 2003 - 04:06 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Does anyone know what the rectangular light beige patch is on the front of the Challenger 2's?
You may be talking about the IR panel. So friendly vehicles show up in allied night vision.
Steve
sgtreef
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 6,043 posts
Armorama: 4,347 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 12:48 AM UTC
Quoted Text
That is the IFF panel (Identify friend or foe) gives a hot spot in a thermal sight so the gunner may identify the vehicle as friendly. Kind of works like the rear window defogger on your car. The florescent panel on top of the Rover has been in use for decades and the other side has a day-glo pink shine. Keeps aircraft from targeting you in daylight.
Chocolate chips were replaced by a 3 color set of DCUs in 1992, although chocolate chips were is use by US forces throughout the 90s as well as some still around today.
As far as what vehicles are in use not used 12 years ago, the M1A2, M2/3A2 ODS, M2A3, M3A3, M109A6 Paladin, M998A1 (and variants), M88A2, M6 Linebacker, M7 B-FIST, FMTV, and many more.
As far as current kits, Trumpeter or DML M1A1 or M1A2, Tamiya M2A2, Italeri or Revell of Germany M109A6 Paladin, AFV Club M88A1 (use AEF Designs conversion for A2), Italeri HEMTTs, DML MLRS, dozens of kits out there.
Not to make a point here But after talking to a well known member from this site are not planes equiped with this same thing that lets them know the difference between friend and foe?
AJLaFleche
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 8,074 posts
Armorama: 3,293 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 01:06 AM UTC
[quote]
The IFF on aircraft is more of a transponder, I believe, giving out a specific radio frequency. From what was said on CNN and here about the IFF's on the armor, these provide an IR signature that is recognizable to pilots/gunners through their night vision equipment.
Quoted Text
Not to make a point here But after talking to a well known member from this site are not planes equiped with this same thing that lets them know the difference between friend and foe?
The IFF on aircraft is more of a transponder, I believe, giving out a specific radio frequency. From what was said on CNN and here about the IFF's on the armor, these provide an IR signature that is recognizable to pilots/gunners through their night vision equipment.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 02:13 AM UTC
Al's right, the IFF used in aircraft ID through radio frequencies. Army ADA weapons such as the Stinger, Patriot, M6 Linebacker, Avenger have a component on it called an IFF interrogator that queries targeted aircraft. If the response from the aircraft is incorrect, then the green light to shoot is given. Even this system isn't foolproof, as demonstrated by the recent downing of a Tornado by a Patriot.
The ground IFF panels are a thermal visual identifier, a very low-tech solution to identifying ground vehicles to friendly gunners using thermal sights.
The ground IFF panels are a thermal visual identifier, a very low-tech solution to identifying ground vehicles to friendly gunners using thermal sights.
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