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NEWS
Those New Announcements from DML
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 07:14 PM UTC
Already covered in the Forums here, but now put into 'permanent' format, is this report on DML's two, new 'Smart-Kit' releases. The News can be seen:
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james84
Joined: January 28, 2006
KitMaker: 1,368 posts
Armorama: 950 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 07:19 PM UTC
Same kits already released respectively by AFV (if I'm not wrong) and Trumpeter...
jjumbo
Joined: August 27, 2006
KitMaker: 2,012 posts
Armorama: 1,949 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 07:59 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Same kits already released respectively by AFV (if I'm not wrong) and Trumpeter...
Hey Giacomo,
I think you've got your kits a bit mixed up.
Have you read all the posts about "The Half-Track Wars" ?
Trumpeter (aka Bugler
) is going head to head with DML (aka Lizard ) and are also doing a Sd.Kfz. 7/1 half-track, a Sd.Kfz. 165/1 Geschutzwagen IVb and a Waffentrager GW IVb Heuschrecke.But as far as I can see, AFV Club is only doing another Sd.Kfz. 11/4 half-track but not the Sd.Kfz. 7/1 or the Sd.Kfz. 165/1 Geschutzwagen IVb.
Cheers
jjumbo
wito28
Joined: January 06, 2005
KitMaker: 18 posts
Armorama: 9 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 11:38 PM UTC
Hi,
At first, I thought Trumpeter released rare WWII era german and soviet vehicles (Trumpeter has seen big gap in those areas). Dragon went for WWII German tanks. However, It is not case here. It is very interesting because they compete with each other in some topics, like 15cm sFH 18 and 10.5 lFH18 howitzer and some other vehicles.
Dragon and Trumpeter know what each other is doing, I think they spy each other. I know that a lot of modelers want a new Sd Kfz 7 half track. and we are going to get two new release of SdKfz 7. We are so lucky. I hope the other version of Sd Kfz 7 will follow 
.
At first, I thought Trumpeter released rare WWII era german and soviet vehicles (Trumpeter has seen big gap in those areas). Dragon went for WWII German tanks. However, It is not case here. It is very interesting because they compete with each other in some topics, like 15cm sFH 18 and 10.5 lFH18 howitzer and some other vehicles.
Dragon and Trumpeter know what each other is doing, I think they spy each other
. I know that a lot of modelers want a new Sd Kfz 7 half track. and we are going to get two new release of SdKfz 7. We are so lucky. I hope the other version of Sd Kfz 7 will follow .
Alpenflage
Joined: May 21, 2003
KitMaker: 1,120 posts
Armorama: 1,002 posts
Posted: Friday, April 04, 2008 - 03:06 AM UTC
This was all too easy to predict. Personally, I will go with the Dragon kits, as I feel they offer a better product. However, I will need to stock both Trumpeter and Dragon in order to satisfy all. I do agree we needed a new tool Sd Kfz 7, so it will be welcomed regardless which manufacturer produces it.
A question should be, will Dragon challenge AFV Club with their announced Churchill ?
Now, that 10.5cm Geschutzwagen IVb looks interesting as well
Thanks for the great news, Jim !
Cheers !!
Robert
A question should be, will Dragon challenge AFV Club with their announced Churchill ?
Now, that 10.5cm Geschutzwagen IVb looks interesting as well
Thanks for the great news, Jim !
Cheers !!
Robert
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Friday, April 04, 2008 - 03:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
A question should be, will Dragon challenge AFV Club with their announced Churchill
A good question...
My gut feeling is no - at the moment. All DML's attention is on Trumpeter - frankly putting out a silhouette smells (to me at least) of a desperate attempt to grab the 'headlines'. Will they go head-to-head with AFV Club? Yes, but with the 251/3, the Churchill would NOT be part of any 'strategy'. Bronco Model may come under the spotlight soon as well - the LWS is going to grab all the attention for at least a month or two... Interesting times...
postbusf
Joined: November 15, 2007
KitMaker: 158 posts
Armorama: 154 posts
Posted: Friday, April 04, 2008 - 07:40 AM UTC
What ever the reasson is wy they put this thing on to the market, I don't care!
All I want to know is howe it's gonna look like.
I have a pretty good feeling about this one.
All crappy marketing put a side, i think that this modelkit will be a winner !
Frank.
All I want to know is howe it's gonna look like.
I have a pretty good feeling about this one.
All crappy marketing put a side, i think that this modelkit will be a winner !
Frank.
milvehfan
Joined: June 26, 2007
KitMaker: 2,116 posts
Armorama: 1,080 posts
Posted: Friday, April 04, 2008 - 01:36 PM UTC
Well, as I said about the Trump kit, same goes for the Dragon kit, gotta have 1 of each. Looking forward to both releases, hope I can afford them.......
stevecamley
Joined: June 05, 2006
KitMaker: 10 posts
Armorama: 10 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 06, 2008 - 07:52 AM UTC
Anyone can release a silouhette- I could!
I f TRU's Sd Kfz 7 is well received, Dragon's will be released on the twelfth of Never.
I suspect this is just another spoiler, and will join a long list of unreleased Dragon "releases".
I would'nt count on buying both, guys..
Steve
I f TRU's Sd Kfz 7 is well received, Dragon's will be released on the twelfth of Never.
I suspect this is just another spoiler, and will join a long list of unreleased Dragon "releases".
I would'nt count on buying both, guys..
Steve
emroglan
Joined: December 16, 2004
KitMaker: 1,163 posts
Armorama: 842 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 06, 2008 - 10:36 AM UTC
Heh, all I want to say about Dragon's announcement is "parolés, parolés, parolés" (words, words, words...) as Dalida sang once. In my opinion, this is a desperate blockade attempt to rival Trumpeter and this Sdkfz 7 will be out at the same time the DML Stryker hits the shelves.
While I hold DML in high regard when it comes to kits, can't say the same for their marketing efforts or trying to outcompete other firms. There are so many subjects to be "kitted" out there, why waste time and resources on the same subject? Well, since I don't own a model company, I think they know better.
Conclusion: I wouldn't place my money on DML's Sdkfz 7.
While I hold DML in high regard when it comes to kits, can't say the same for their marketing efforts or trying to outcompete other firms. There are so many subjects to be "kitted" out there, why waste time and resources on the same subject? Well, since I don't own a model company, I think they know better.
Conclusion: I wouldn't place my money on DML's Sdkfz 7.
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 06, 2008 - 10:53 AM UTC
Quoted Text
While I hold DML in high regard when it comes to kits, can't say the same for their marketing efforts or trying to outcompete other firms. There are so many subjects to be "kitted" out there, why waste time and resources on the same subject?
Of course, it remains to be seen exactly WHAT version they decide to produce, if they do the intermediate or late versions - fantastic. If on the other hand, they do the same version, they're simply reacting to a competitor, then it's, IMO, a serious mistake..
I also hope that they take their time with this release - do the research, take their time in getting it right and, in the case of their advertising, start aiming their products at consumers who have a normal i.q. - hyperbole DOESN'T cut it with me or the vast majority of modelers either.
I also find, speaking personally, the reaction to the News on THIS site, nicely balanced. Other posts i've seen on other Forums have seen this announcement as:
a) News of the Second Coming
b) An invitation to the Apocalypse....
Removed by original poster on 04/27/08 - 02:15:40 (GMT).
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 03:06 AM UTC
Now why couldn't they have done that in the first place?
Removed by original poster on 04/27/08 - 02:16:03 (GMT).
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 03:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
So... Is this the same variant as the Trumpeter offering?
Certainly looks like it... opportunity lost for Axis modelers...
Never mind, i've got my prime-mover for MY Flak 18....
Removed by original poster on 04/27/08 - 02:16:26 (GMT).
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 03:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I must say that I'm not so dissapointed that Dragon and Trumpeter seem to be engaged in such open competition. We know that competition tests both competitors, forcing them to push the limits, themselves, and in this case, their products. Dragon will push the boat out and probably chuck everything but the kitchen sink into their version and Trumpeter will probably drop their prices and then bring out an option kit for those that want it. It's a win/win situation for all concerned and the wealth of subject not covered by the big companies just opens the way for aftermarket conversion kits.
Yep, competition IS healthy, however, as I don't believe for two seconds that DML has gone beyond the Box-Art, why announce EXACTLY the same vehicle? Problem is, that all the AM sets in the world won't turn this into anything more than an early pattern Sd.Kfz 7.
Problem is that neither DML or Trumpeter are going to vanish any time soon and BOTH of them are going to have to learn to co-exist.
I'm also a bit concerned that some of DML's propaganda is getting believed and some people will seriously NOT buy the Trumpeter kit - waiting for the DML one (whenever that actually is - my guess will be autumn/winter of this year). If DML do actually do it, then i'd personally sooner wait for an accurate model rather than something which has been put together to go against Trumpeter,
Saying all this though, Trumpeter, IMO, haven't done themselves a lot of favors by publishing photos of the built-up (TEST) model. It doesn't honestly look brilliant. The test shots of the partially-built model were, IMO, far better...
As the expression goes in Spanish:
'Better to watch the bulls from the safety of the fence...'
Basher
Joined: April 08, 2008
KitMaker: 4 posts
Armorama: 2 posts
KitMaker: 4 posts
Armorama: 2 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 03:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Saying all this though, Trumpeter, IMO, haven't done themselves a lot of favors by publishing photos of the built-up (TEST) model. It doesn't honestly look brilliant. The test shots of the partially-built model were, IMO, far better...
How do we know that Dragon didn't plan their kit first and that Trumpeter didn't just jump the gun and rush out their own prototype. The only historical precident we have is the DickerMax and to be honest I don't know which company's kit was announced first, which was released first and which was the better kit.
Of the two companies I would say that Dragon does the greather ammount of (and lengthier) research and planning (I could be biased) and personally I've been seeing a lot of Dragon SdKfz.7 'propoganda' in my local hobby shops for a while and nothing from Trumpeter, but I live in Tokyo so I'm not sure what comes in this direction.
Infer from this what you will...
Plasticbattle
#003
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,763 posts
Armorama: 7,444 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 03:59 AM UTC
Quoted Text
then i'd personally sooner wait for an accurate model rather than something which has been put together to go against Trumpeter,
Don´t be worrying needlessly Jim .... "the details of actual vehicle was thoroughly reseached"
Kelley
Joined: November 21, 2002
KitMaker: 1,966 posts
Armorama: 1,635 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 04:53 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm also a bit concerned that some of DML's propaganda is getting believed and some people will seriously NOT buy the Trumpeter kit - waiting for the DML one (whenever that actually is - my guess will be autumn/winter of this year). If DML do actually do it, then i'd personally sooner wait for an accurate model rather than something which has been put together to go against Trumpeter,
Yeah, my favorites are the replies and quotes I've seen on other sites, the best was the one that proclaimed the Dragon kit to be "stunning."
Then there are those already saying they will wait on the Dragon kit when the actual Trumpeter kit hasn't even hit the shelves yet. How about at least waiting 'til the kit has been reviewed.Mike
RonV
Joined: February 13, 2003
KitMaker: 143 posts
Armorama: 120 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 05:36 AM UTC
I am constantly intrigued with the modeler's capability of convoluted thinking. Believe me, as I've been involved in 1/35th scale modelling since 1971, I've done my share of it myself. 
I've been associated with Dragon for twenty years now and know little more about the business of our hobby than I did when I started down this path. I guess that would suggest that I am rather thick but mostly it indicates that Dragon would rather keep things to them self. Nonetheless, through the years I have managed to acquire a bit of understanding about how business is done in parts of Asia (from non hobby sources) and it has allowed me some comprehension of some circumstances. I think if most of us knew these, most of us would understand why certain things occur, even if we don't agree with them.
That being said, I find myself particulary curious to know why anyone would be surprised that Dragon would produce a halftrack to pull their already existing Flak 88's and sFH18.
Or why they would choose to produce the most numerous variant first? And who would belive that DML won't produce numerous variants of the vehicle before they're done?
Of course, I'm not so thick that I can't see that the "timing" is one of the issues here, but that has happened in our hobby since Italeri and Tamiya went head to head in the Panzer IV wars of the 1970's. My understanding is that it can take 6-12 months of full time effort to bring a kit into production (perhaps auto CAD has reduced that some) so I guess we'll have to wait for our answer.
I fully understand that this is a place to offeer one's opinions so I thank you all for the opportunity to share mine.
Respectfuly,
Ron Volstad
I've been associated with Dragon for twenty years now and know little more about the business of our hobby than I did when I started down this path. I guess that would suggest that I am rather thick but mostly it indicates that Dragon would rather keep things to them self.
Nonetheless, through the years I have managed to acquire a bit of understanding about how business is done in parts of Asia (from non hobby sources) and it has allowed me some comprehension of some circumstances. I think if most of us knew these, most of us would understand why certain things occur, even if we don't agree with them.That being said, I find myself particulary curious to know why anyone would be surprised that Dragon would produce a halftrack to pull their already existing Flak 88's and sFH18.
Or why they would choose to produce the most numerous variant first? And who would belive that DML won't produce numerous variants of the vehicle before they're done?
Of course, I'm not so thick that I can't see that the "timing" is one of the issues here, but that has happened in our hobby since Italeri and Tamiya went head to head in the Panzer IV wars of the 1970's. My understanding is that it can take 6-12 months of full time effort to bring a kit into production (perhaps auto CAD has reduced that some) so I guess we'll have to wait for our answer.
I fully understand that this is a place to offeer one's opinions so I thank you all for the opportunity to share mine.
Respectfuly,
Ron Volstad
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 06:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
That being said, I find myself particulary curious to know why anyone would be surprised that Dragon would produce a halftrack to pull their already existing Flak 88's and sFH18.
What actually surprised me, is they didn't do it a couple of years ago... If they'd delayed the release of a Paper-Panzer and brought this out, a lot of people would have been scattering rose-petals at their feet...
Quoted Text
Or why they would choose to produce the most numerous variant first? And who would belive that DML won't produce numerous variants of the vehicle before they're done?
That equally makes sense although sadly, we may see some of the more interesting variants come out in one production run (Cyber-Hobby?) thereby limiting their availablity. This, IMO, would be a serious mistake. The most common (early) variant will make sense and unless Trump REALLY screw the pooch in accuracy terms, DML are going to be playing some serious catch-up.
Thanks for your contribution Ron, to an immensely interesting debate...
Grumpyoldman
ConsigliereJoined: October 17, 2003
KitMaker: 15,338 posts
Armorama: 7,297 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 08:08 AM UTC
Lizard vs Bugler reminds me of Ford vs GM.
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