Over on the Network's Aviation site (Aeroscale) they've begun the first in a dedicated SIG (Special Interest Group) :

HERE (LINK)

Now, sometimes when a specific vehicle is getting discussd, or questions raised about modeling it, the information is there, but frequently scattered all over the place.

Basically, this would be a series of dedicated Forums which depending on how they were administered, could create a pretty useful on-line resource.

However, like anything else, it's only as good as the contributions and the admin. So, rather than having a dozen Special Interest Groups starting at the same time, i'd propose (initially) only a couple - one on the M4 and the other on the Tiger OR Panther. Later on, if we get it off the ground, then we can move onto other (reasonably mainstream) subjects.

Of course, once again this is ONLY a suggestion. Like all suggestions, if it doesn't get any feedback, then I won't take it any further. I'd also like to hear suggestions for the actual ADMINISTRATION of the Forum, any ideas for areas which could be covered etc. I DON'T want to hear suggestions for vehicles to be covered (at the moment) that could come later...

Thanks, Jim

Hi Jim.
A little background info on the P-47 SIG.
It started as a thread in the WW2 forum and ran for over a year in that format before becoming a website.
Over 400 replies and almost 16'000 views later here I am with a dedicated website.
Its not something that happens overnight.
All the best
Nige

Jim, a good idea

I tried something similar, Tarawa list of info To try and plan out topics and set them up to be used would be quite a bit of work.

Specific areas like M4 would cover so much info that you would still have to scroll through tons of pages to get where you want to go.

Reference materials seem to mostly come in “The Battle of” or “DAK Armor”. It would seem that a time frame and geographical area would be best suited to this. For example France WWII or Italy WWII, or Saipan, This would cover everything in that area. Most searches start with that in mind, then specific sides, like allied or axis, then maybe further into specific vehicles. Exactly like a normal data base would progress to the exact thing that was being researched. The ending drop down or tree would end at the given topic.

This would be the logical way if you want to set one up. The example of the airplane thingy is more of an accident then anything else. A bunch of people exchanging ideas and references over something they care a lot about. I can see someone running across this post and liking the topic take an hour or so to scroll through 15 pages of information and maybe adding their ideas or references or just take what info they needed or were looking for and moving on.

I noticed that you have to go to Aeroscale, then Forums, then World War II, to be able to see the pinned P-47 thread. So finding the topic easily is a problem in itself

I also saw a lot of red X’s. You might also want to set up a gallery album for the photos to go so you won’t lose them, kind of like becoming the property of Armorama for reference available to all.

One large undertaking, might be easier to just re-name posts so that they could be searched for much easier and let the searcher determine what is important or not. I have noticed how a topic of “Dio plan criticism needed” really had to do with a King Tiger and the Battle of the Bulge.

Or just let the separate groups involved with their favorite topic create their own SIG and submit it for pin ability, you never know what item would take off or another show little concern.

No matter which way you go it will take a lot of time and effort and I wish you the best of luck,
Bob

I think this is a wonderful idea Jim.



I can think of a particular vehicle series that I would be very interested in seeing/contributing to.

That was the original thread.. which was started a year ago.
Totally agree that it needed organising, hence the new website on the Kitmaker Network.
The website is here.
P47.KITMAKER.NET

There are specific forums, and a gallery,plus features and on display. Oh yeah,,no red X's
The red x's are where people posted and have since removed their photobucket pictures.
There is dedicated gallery space in content storage and the public gallery also.






Sorry, but I have to disagree with you there Bob
Nige

Nige, sorry poor choice of words on my part. I should have said "The example given is more the process of people getting together over a specific air thingy which they all share a common liking of the air thingy and decide to combine info in one location for their common gratification." Any better?
I really didn't mean any disrespect.
And I like the idea,
Bob

I think it's a good idea, of course, I'd be leaning toward things with tires rather than tracks. But that's simply because that where my interests lie.

Jim,

Given the fact that we have so many knowledgeable people on such a wide variety of subjects here, that sounds like a great idea. Yes, it would be a lot of work, but I think we're up to it. Like you said, though, starting small with two groups on tanks like the Sherman and Panther would be a good barometer of interest since they are so popular.

Nigel: I hadn't noticed that the SIG thread on Aeroscale was now a Kitmaker site! Great job on turning that into such a great looking and easily usable resource.




I figured someone would notice how poorly I had named my post! I reasoned that since the users on this site are always so helpful, I would get the most replies if I just came out and asked for it in the title. That way the thread would have a wider interest. Still, your point stands, threads are frequently poorly named, so information that could be very helpful to many people is relegated to obscurity in the long list of old forum threads.

This could be fixed by giving a drop-down list of SIG categories (like the current ones for language and category) that must have an option selected for the new thread to post. Then you could make it the SIG admin's job to filter the threads and make sure that they were all related to his SIG. This could potentially be a big job, though. Am I making sense?

I hope you can succeed in getting something going.
Samuel

Imitation being, as they say, the most sincere form of flattery, if I was setting it up tomorrow, i'd copy the template of Nigel's SIG completely.

The idea of having a seperate website completely dedicated to one vehicle is just so tempting. The only thing which is daunting is the admin..

I'll still need to see a lot more feedback before I could make a formal request though...

Let me be the one to ask what I'm sure others have wondered as well: Why not simply continue current Discussion Group format?

As much as I like the SIG idea, I thought that's what the Discussion Groups were supposed to facilitate.

That is a very valid point Rudi.

In fact, last night I arranged to talk to Nigel about this point on Friday (regarding a discussion group idea of my own). I would have thought the next level after a 'sticky' would be a separate discussion group, then perhaps moving onto a SIG if contributions increased further.

I would think that creating a whole 'mini-Aeroscale', or 'mini Armorama' for each vehicle (i.e Tiger, Sherman etc.) would be very time consuming, costly and a difficult undertaking for Jim S. I can also imagine that taking into account the issue with forum moderator shortages on the existing sites, finding moderators for SIG forums would be virtually impossible!

Chas

IMO, they simply aren't facilitating the easy access which people need. The problem is, that with so much (and constantly increasing) traffic on the main Forum board, interesting discussions, which unless they get 150 responses, simply vanish. Thre is now, I feel, a need to create more and more specialized areas where both the 'Cognoscenti' and the Newbie can equally access.

There've been a lot of discussion recently (taking the M4 as an example) on how DML's M4a1 can compare to Tasca's - now some of these discussions have been extremely technical (use of .50 cals, T41 track etc.) which, unless you're heavily into the area will be pretty bewildering.We need a space where someone can go with an image, a link or (in the best of worlds) a question. In the latter case, people have to be able to feel they can ask the most basic or the most complex of questions.

The way things are now, the most technical of sites (ML) is NOT IMO, the most user-friendly of places. We need to be adapting and USING the technical abilities which are present here.

The Forums are, IMO, over-used. Too many NEVER go beyond the main boards and onto the Features, News & Review sections. We have to find a mechanism to connect ALL aspects of the site seamlessly - SIGs are, IMO, the way to go...

Costly? How exactly? We have Bandwidth to spare. Difficult? The template's already there with the P-47 SIG. The moderator shortages are NOT insurmountable although, I agree, they're a problem. Problem is, that lots of people like the idea of a 'Free' Network, too many are unwilling to volunteer for even the smallest of tasks. Some people don't have the time, others have the time but feel they have little to offer.

Sadly, too many people see themselves as simple spectators in a continuing process which brings them MORE in a month of Features, News & Reviews which they'd get in five years of an expensive magazine subscription - and STILL criticize...

Ok perhaps not difficult. I don't have any knowledge or understanding of the way the Network is created or expanded, hell, I don't even know what bandwidth is!

So am I right in saying that creating multiple new sites within the network costs nothing, what about the upkeep/updates? Am I also right in saying that the need for all the ads up there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ^^^^^^^^

...have nothing to do with financing network expansion/upkeep/updates?

I have created a monster

A lot of the upkeep would be very low-maintenance. A couple of moderators could, initially at least, keep an eye on things. As to advertisers, there's a number who, in my opinion could be very interested in this - with a lot of possibilities for specific sponsorship. You'd also bring in more of the 'single-issue' modelers...

You want to be known as Fronkensteen or Frankenstein?

No Nige, you have created a site which has a fine potential... it is RUDI who created the monster! I can see Nige as the princess in the tower, with a ferocious dragon (me), while Jim is the knight in armour trying to rescue you. hahah

Ok all I can say is good luck with the SIG. Debate over, someone please decide the scores.

Chas

Monkey 1 football 0

I finally had a chance to look at the correct site. I really like that. You could actually do breakups of the vehicle in question down further in the Features section; like M4/M4Composite/M4A1etc...
It would keep everything separate like builds, references, workarounds etc so it wouldn't be confusing to search.
Again I have to say that re-naming posts so that they would fit into the correct area or department might be a little problem. The drop down selection box would help a lot for this.
Like SIG group then where in SIG group.
The moderator’s main job would seem to be (Besides the normal of site requirements) if it fit into the SIG and if it fit into the SIG department selected
You might find also more people submitting features with this set up.
The initial set up problem might be scouring through existing posts and such to dedicate them to the SIG. Or you might be able to do a suggestion request. Request site members to submit suggestions for posts, features and kit reviews, etc.. To be included into the SIG this might also be a problem due to a heavy suggestion load.
Anyway, real nice set up for that air thingy,
Bob

Hi Guys,

i think in principle it sounds good but a lot of work to manage. However, with such a wide range iof subjects how do you decide what becomes a SIG and what doesn't? It would end up a very limited number of topics, otherwise you'd need an army to admin it.

Also my thinking is that people post for information and feedback when they start a thread. If you get an answer; look in page 13 blog D, which may well be very helpful, will the threads themselves not become un-interesting because they will lack that user and information input?

I think in general, user response is way down on what it used to be, threads many be getting a lot of hits but ther interaction between users is down and that is what also makes running a thread fun and allows people to get to know each other. If you visit a SIG and are not an 'expert' wouldn't you just read what you want and move on?

If you ran a SIG on say the M4, it would need lots of sub SIGs for the M4A1, M4A2 etc to meet the needs of Sherman builders and the same is probably true about most vehicles Allied or Axis, because with out that development them the value would be limited and of interest to only those who are either passionate about the subject or happen to want to build that particular vehicle.

The nature of any thread is the interaction between the users. How do you cut out all the general chit chat that is of no relevance to the topic which is sure to happen because we are all human? If I wanted to read a SIG I'd want data only and with the amout of knowledge here on site and the ability to link anywhere would you not just be duplicating what already exists? The SIG would only be operational and of full value when it contaied all know data about a subject, which would take forever and you'd need data and opinions separately to fill in the missing info. Where do you put things like discusions of a particular picture, or what colour is it really and if it was pink what shade?

You might think I'm against the idea but I'm not I'm just not sure how all of the elements might come into being to make it the resource that is being discussed. How much time and effort to set it up and manage it? How long before it holds enough information of value and if and when totally stocked how many would actually use it?

Just some thoughts.

Al

First of all, thanks for the feedback - there are some very useful ideas here




I don't believe it would. It would be a far more 'organic' process than we have at the moment, therefore, it would, IMO, bring in both the casual visitor and the 'hard-liners' The reason for the proposal is essentially simple - to stop interesting threads, Reviews & Features 'falling off the edge' and vanishing as too often happens...

It wouldn't be 'stocked' as such - think of it like a supermarket in reverse. Rather than going and filling your trolley, you'd go in with a few items and leave them on the shelves while taking out the items you need. Again, i'm advocating this organic idea.

SImply put, as I said before, with the amount of new threads and posts we get in a 24-hour period, there's a need to start creating 'overflow' areas (or there will be with the continuing increase in traffic). When the Network split into its component parts we didn't have any option - Armorama (as it only was then) was becoming ridiculously large. Armorama as it is now, is growing at an equally impressive rate...

Hi Jim,

I'd agree that a lot of useful info falls off the end. It may well be a good way to 'capture' that data. I'm assuming leaving deposits would include links, pics etc?

If you have the facility to run it then why not, as they say you won't know until you try.

Glad to hear traffic is on the increase.

Al

My only concern is how you get around the issue of pictures being removed after a period of time due to the amount of space in each members gallery, I understand that the pictures are not always needed but a post becomes clearer with them than without.

Al made a lot of good points in his post and I think maybe one way to deal with some of them would be as follows.

Lets say there was a SIG about the Sherman tank. Couldn't there be a few threads in it, one for the M4, one for the M4A1 etc. IE: a thread for each variant. Only the moderator/administrator would have the ability to post in those threads. This would be beneficial two ways. The next person to come along searching for info would not have to scroll through questions, 'debates', repetition, multiple answers etc.

Another thread ( General Use ) could be for users to post their input. If a users input was relevant it could be moved into the correct thread by the mod/admin of that SIG, if it was already posted it could remain in the general use thread. This way there wouldn't be any double posts/repetitive posts to scroll through. This would keep the information easier to find and in a much more user friendly form.

When I look through the P-47 SIG I can see where some of the things I mentioned above might already be causing a 'problem' ( for lack of a better term). If I am searching for specific information, I really don't want to have to scroll through users model pictures and other 'irrelevant' posts (again for lack of a better term ) Perhaps there could be a separate thread for model pictures as well, thereby maintaining the pure, clean information value of the original topic thread.

Perhaps I am missing the point altogether here but I thought I might put that out there for the heck of it.

Some very interesting and accurate points being raised here guys.

The issue of people removing their photo's from photobucket and other galleries was an issue with the original SIG thread, and of course is an issue with ANY internet forum.
I did try to store all the photos used in Content Storage but this wasnt possible.

Jims initial post was a little misleading, in that it linked to the original thread in the WW2 forums.
Many of the points raised in this thread after post#1 relate to problems that were associated with the original thread. ( scrolling through page after page for information etc)It also "reads" that the P-47 SIG had just started., when in actual fact it was the P-47 website that had just been launched.

The original thread was started in late September 2007 by myself.
Over 16'000 views and 400+ replies later it was evolved into the website.
Naturally, this is all new ground and the P-47 site is a guinea pig site of sorts.
Its going to be an interesting and challenging journey.



Nige