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Military figures of all shapes and sizes.
Why is there a lack of WWII Japanese figures?
CMOT
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 07:27 PM UTC

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Great, give me a company credit, they don't sell their models for nothing I'm not going to set around researching for nothing ... their time is valuable and so is mine. In all do respect Jim, not a lot of people are going to spend a lot of time researching, collection and laying out date accompanied with a product proposal to benefit a company just to turn around and PAY for the privilege of doing it. If a company provided incentive if you submit a proposal and if they accept it they'll give you X amount of credit in models of your choice. These companies might find themselves inundated with proposals, but have a guideline so you don't get a lot of crap proposals.



Dave I have a real problem with this statement, if you want a product to go on the market you need on occasion to do what needs doing to hook the manufacturer. I don’t know for sure but I would assume that if you provided the leg work for a product, the company involved would at the very least send you that product as a thank you if it is progressed and possibly even preproduction samples for an opinion. Lastly if we all thought that way the KitMaker Network would not be here in the format it is, because none of us are paid for the work we put in, we do it because we want to do it and give something to the community (I spend 40 plus hours a week working on and off line to try and provide items from the membership for the interest of the members here). I take that back I get access to the staff forums.
jimbrae
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 - 01:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Dave I have a real problem with this statement, if you want a product to go on the market you need on occasion to do what needs doing to hook the manufacturer.



As do I... It's easy to sit there and criticize, sometimes, those who are heavily involved with this Network get asked our opinions from manufacturers about new product lines they are thinking of developing. What should our response be?

It's not entirely altruistic - thanks to this kind of contact we get Review samples, we get access to images for News reports and, in many cases, we get advertising - which keeps this site going.

It's a lot of work to keep these relationships going and its unfortunate more people don't understand how much of this kind of work goes on behind the scenes to keep the Network where it is - at the top...
downtowndeco
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 - 02:46 AM UTC
I agree with you. Sometimes we get so into our hobby we forget how "fringe" it really is. You won't find 99% of the kind of items we like in any sort of mass market (WalMart), heck, you won't find 90% of it even in a general hobby/craft shop. It is a very finite market. Very tiny.

No one is (as far as I can tell) getting rich. Some are fortunate enough to make a living at it. Many are one guy operations (like myself) where the owner designs, manufactures, packs, ships and markets the products all by themselves without any outside help.

All I'm saying is if you have a pet project you'd like to see get done, if you do a little of the legwork & research it's much more likely to see the light of day. I just don't always have the time to do it. And yes, most manufacturers would be more than glad to kick you some kits if they end up using your idea/project. But we can't always promise to use every idea that comes across the desk either.

Randy Pepprock
Dioramas Plus


Quoted Text


Dave I have a real problem with this statement, if you want a product to go on the market you need on occasion to do what needs doing to hook the manufacturer. I don’t know for sure but I would assume that if you provided the leg work for a product, the company involved would at the very least send you that product as a thank you if it is progressed and possibly even preproduction samples for an opinion. Lastly if we all thought that way the KitMaker Network would not be here in the format it is, because none of us are paid for the work we put in, we do it because we want to do it and give something to the community (I spend 40 plus hours a week working on and off line to try and provide items from the membership for the interest of the members here). I take that back I get access to the staff forums.

SSgt1Shot
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 - 03:38 AM UTC
Jim and Darren


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Dave I have a real problem with this statement



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As do I ...



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It's not entirely altruistic - thanks to this kind of contact we get Review samples, we get access to images for News reports and, in many cases, we get advertising - which keeps this site going.



That last part seems like incentive.

Don't confuse a volunteer website community that share information amongst the user with a 'for profit' business. That's projecting and it's not a fair comparison. If a business stands to profit from your work then it is not unreasonable or unrealistic to expect to share meagerly in those profits in some way? Such as X amount of credit in models it's not like you're asking for a 50% share in ownership of the company. And the credit they are offering you is at retail while their investment is wholesale.
Nothing, at anytime, by me was said or implied about Kitmaker network, so please don't take a comment not directed at you or the community and reface it, when the topic has nothing to do with it. It is in my opinion spinning a statement and taken out of context. Let's stay on topic, please.

Now...

If you submit a researched idea to a company, something you spent a lot of time on and they run with it and they make a little profit from it and all they do is give you a little pat on the head, how many more ideas are you going to submit? Granted most companies will give you a few kits as a gesture. BUT if folks know a incentive going in they're more apt to pursue that incentive.

Why does Downtown Deco and Alpine Miniatures do what they do? Is it for the the warm fuzzy of providing a product to the market place, is it for that pat on the head from the consumer? Or is it for the prospect of turning a buck (Euro, Yen, Pound, Rupee etc) and paying the bills? I'm guessing the latter.
I've been in business over 20 years and part of what I do is because I love what I do, put part of it is to eat and be in the black at that end of the day. I'd really love it if my guys would work for me for a sense of fulfillment, but for some silly reason they want to be paid. Go figure?

jimbrae
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 - 04:30 AM UTC
Dave, don't get me wrong - I'm a real believer in the 'incentive' culture as well. If a company approached me to do all the research for a new model then i'd DEFINITELY want something for my trouble. If, on the other hand, I am asked to look at a small area of a vehicle and make suggestions then i'll count that as a 'freebie' - although i'd definitely want something for the site later on though



SSgt1Shot
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 - 05:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Dave, don't get me wrong - I'm a real believer in the 'incentive' culture as well. If a company approached me to do all the research for a new model then i'd DEFINITELY want something for my trouble. If, on the other hand, I am asked to look at a small area of a vehicle and make suggestions then i'll count that as a 'freebie' - although i'd definitely want something for the site later on though




And I agree with that, quid pro quo if you will. It's as old as mankind itself.
JPTRR
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RAILROAD MODELING
#051
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 - 05:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

No one is (as far as I can tell) getting rich. Some are fortunate enough to make a living at it. Many are one guy operations (like myself)....



Concerning a previous post about'"greedy"' model companies and cost of oil and kits. I have no doubt that there are pirates out there, but I think economics are more complex than we think.

A year or two ago I posted comments by one of the small model ship manufacturers, who was replying to the question 'why are models so expensive today?' The answer was that tooling costs can amount to $20,000+ per sprue. Amortize that across the estimated number that will be sold, it is amazing to me that some are affordable as is.

As for oil costs, if the company bought X units of styrene at a price figured for oil being $100/barrel, and oil is now $40/barrel, they still have to price their costs based on the $100 price or they are loosing $60/barrel on current production. That until they can buy the next units of styrene at the $40/barrel cost. And they have to make enough for surplus on the chance that oil goes back up when they need their next batch of styrene.
SSgt1Shot
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 - 06:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text

As for oil costs, if the company bought X units of styrene at a price figured for oil being $100/barrel, and oil is now $40/barrel, they still have to price their costs based on the $100 price or they are loosing $60/barrel on current production. That until they can buy the next units of styrene at the $40/barrel cost. And they have to make enough for surplus on the chance that oil goes back up when they need their next batch of styrene.



True, Airlines did the same thing and now they are charging for everything from peanuts to window seats and they wonder why their business is dropping off. But there is a old saying ... "Poor planning on your part, does not constitute a emergency on mine."

I have no idea what a model companies average margins are or what a model retailers margins are but, when a store can have a 50% off sale you have to wonder, are they taking a loss in hopes you buy other non discounted items or are the margins that big? A 100%+ markup is a pretty good margin anyway you slice it.

As I said earlier, modeling is hobby it's not a staple and it's not aways a viable option to pass the cost on the customer. As the customer is already strapped in staple areas, areas of "luxury" are first to go.

Just my opinion and those are a dime a dozen.
taesung
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 - 07:01 AM UTC
After all these posts, I doubt that if you guys were able to
convince any manufacturers to even consider IJA and PTO kits.

The companies are saying, "show me the demand first by buying the existing kits".
The modelers are saying, "show me the new kits first, and MAYBE we'll show you the money".
The companies' attitude isn't all that applaudable, but what modelers are saying isn't any
better. These two deserve each other through eternity!

I know the manufacturers won't risk it during a tough time like this. So good luck.
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 - 07:24 AM UTC
Short answer: lack of demand. Each of the majors offered a set of Japanese figures (Tamiya, Dragon, and way back when, Airfix). If they had been big sellers, additional sets would have been made. My local hobby shop had a set of Fine Molds tank crew on the shelf for nine years.
1969
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 - 09:09 AM UTC
Maybe if everyone stopped collecting German figure sets that they are probably never going to build and actually bought some of the Allied/PTO sets and actually built them then the manufacturers might see the demand and do something about it.
I bet if everyone was honest enough they would admit they have endless german kits stashed just because they liked the look of the set rather than a need for them,this is what is driving the demand for german kits with the manufacturers and will keep the German/Allied inbalance going.

just a thought mind you

Steve
taesung
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 - 10:13 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Maybe if everyone stopped collecting German figure sets that they are probably never going to build and actually bought some of the Allied/PTO sets and actually built them then the manufacturers might see the demand and do something about it.
I bet if everyone was honest enough they would admit they have endless german kits stashed just because they liked the look of the set rather than a need for them,this is what is driving the demand for german kits with the manufacturers and will keep the German/Allied inbalance going.

just a thought mind you

Steve



Hello Steve,
As you pointed out, German modelers accumulate huge stash of kits. And this is exactly why they are treated with
endless releases of new kits. It works like this! You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. One will never see the hay day
of PTO models with that "me against the manufacturers" attitude.
Why not PTO modellers copy the German modelers and start accumulating huge PTO stash like the German modellers do?

I have some modellers volunteer to help me out with reference materials whenever I post questions on forums like this one.
They do it so they can have more accurate kits o f their interest on the market. They are happy to do it for free, and I am happy
to make figures they are interested in more accurately. I mean..., I make the same money whether my new figure has right number
of buttons on or not. I really don't need to go out my way, pay researchers, and release some figures that 3 guys want.

youngc
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 - 03:19 PM UTC

Quoted Text

After all these posts, I doubt that if you guys were able to
convince any manufacturers to even consider IJA and PTO kits.

The companies are saying, "show me the demand first by buying the existing kits".
The modelers are saying, "show me the new kits first, and MAYBE we'll show you the money".



I can't see how buying more existing German infantry kits could show the demand for IJA infantry or other PTO kits. Shouldn't we show the demand by conducting research and running an appeal similar to 1:35 WW2 Australian infantry APPEAL. Surely this is a better way to go about it rather than a thread like this one. And as I said earlier, if you have time, a genuine desire for and a personal interest in the subject, you shouldn't have any reservations about running an appeal.


Quoted Text

Why not PTO modellers copy the German modelers and start accumulating huge PTO stash like the German modellers do?



That's me! I have most of those Japanese infantry kits I listed earlier, in some cases, several of each (apart from those expensive resin tankers). I only have 4 German infantry kits in my stash.

 _GOTOTOP