Hi Rudi,
No worries, as mentioned I go through a long research and prep period myself and so had the list already done, and so figured yourself or another reader may have some use for it.

Sorry I missed the link, for some reason this thread is not formatting in my internet explorere browser properly and so i'm having to scroll all over the place!
It's a great thread and a real help with detailling the interior, so thanks for the heads up.




Yes, you are correct, this is becasue I wrote the list for myself (Its much easier to understand your own ramblings I find!) What I mean is that I found peices of PE fret from old PE sets can be cut to fit this area and is a better scale thickness. I've so far done two wheels using this method and though a little scrappy from behind (which you'll never see) they look great from the front and take no time to do. This in essence is exactly how the original mods were done in the field too.
I think the term is plugged spoke wheels (I am open to correction), As the M8 was based on the later family of Stuarts they did tend to have the pressed solid wheels, although the open spoked wheels were also used (particularly as replacements so it seems) as I presume they were quite abundant in the ETO. However, and order was given (at least in some armoured divisions) for the open spoked wheels and idlers to be plugged in the field, of which there are many examples of stuart tanks. It is presumed therefore that M8 HMC crews would also have followed this doctorine.
Of course the choice remains with you. Ideally i'd suggest getting the AFV club suspension set or the pressed wheel set from Tiger Model designs. But i've already exceeded my 'budget' with this build and so thought plugging the wheels would be a nice alternative.

Good luck Rudi!


Paul: You are correct, the Tamiya hull is way off in the engine deck, a product of them modelling it around their M3 hull. To correct this however is a major undertaking and one I elected to miss due to time (and sanity) constraints. Instead of re-building the entire engine deck as Zaloga does, I think you could fix the bulk of the issue by adding a shim throught the centre of the engine deck and the rear of the lower hull.
I wasn't aware of the differences in M3 and M8 seats so thanks for that (glad I didn't get the academy kit now!)
I havn't however had any issues with the AFV club tracks and the idler but it's still early days.

Thanks for the tips Paul.


James

Hi Paul & James McF,

Thanks for all tips and advice.

Rudi

Step 1 Construction of Wheels

Step 1 of building Tamiya's M8 Howitzer Motor Carrier is the chapter slightly misnamed "Construction of Wheels". The reason I pedantically say it is misnamed is because firstly the (physical) wheels themselves do not require assembly, and secondly because this chapter actually deals with the assembly of the suspension and the idler wheel units (I actually do not know what the section attached to the idler gear is called, hence: "unit").

As mentioned above, this step covers building the vehicles four suspension units, each with two road wheels attached, and the two idler wheel units. During this stage I also got my first taste of PE and scratch-building, albeit miniscule, for the kit.

The first thing I do when starting a new chapter, or stage if you prefer, of a modelling project is re-read the instructions relevant to the chapter. Not only the kit instructions though, but also the instructions of any aftermarket (AM) products I will be using to enhance the kit. I normally read ahead through the instructions, ascertaining if there is anything ahead in the build which would make more sense to include at this stage (be it logical sense or from a sub-assembly/painting point of view).


Above are the Tamiya kit instructions relevant to this chapter.

Step 1.1: Suspension

I decided to start this chapter by assembling the suspension units. As I always do when required to assemble multiple (and identical) units, I identified the six parts required for assembling one of the units and removed them from Sprue B, placing them in a plastic container labelled "Suspension". By placing them in the labelled container I ensure that I can easily find all the parts relevant to the section or sub-assembly, as well as reduce the risk losing them and them attracting dirt and dust. The reason I only remove the parts for one sub-assembly is so that I can do a "dry run" on the assembly, working out any pit-falls that may occur during the assembly, and checking for any seams and casting flaws (which would most likely be persistent on the other, identical parts as well).

Clean up was minimal, and quite normal for virtually any plastic model kit: there were the usual fine casting seam lines. The casting seam lines on the wheels were sanded down using a medium grit sandpaper. The reason I used the medium grit sandpaper was because I wanted to leave a slightly rougher looking finish on the solid rubber road tyre. The rest of the parts were sanded down with a fine grit sandpaper, with heavier seams being reduced first using a hobby knife. While cleaning up the parts, I also took the opportunity to remove the two top bolts on part B17, as instructed by the kit instructions.

Before applying glue to parts it is always a good idea to dry-fit (or test-fit) the parts together to check how, and in which order, they are going to go together when doing the real fit. The kit instructions call for part B10 to be fitted to the rest of the assembly last. I found it was easier to fit the wheels (B10) to B17, and then fit B10. B16 could slide into place over the wheels and into the slot on B17, and seated itself with its arms sitting on the small brackets provided on parts B17 and B10. B7 slotted into place over B16. Placing the completed suspension unit against the lower hull, I also checked the fit against the hull. And thus the suspension sub-assembly was completed, albeit only dry-fitted together.



Having completed the first suspension unit, I clipped all the parts for the remaining units off the sprue and stored them my plastic container. As at this stage the parts and units were all identical (at this point they are neither left or right, front or back) it did not matter that they were all mixed in the tub. Clean-up was as before, as was the dry-fitting of each unit.

Another one of the useful purposes of performing a dry-fit of the sub-assembly is determining to what extent the sub-assembly should be completed, and what needs to be left off for the later painting stage. I decided that painting the road wheels and the inside of the suspension units would be rather difficult it the sub-assembly were completed in its entirety. And thus I determined that it would be best not to glue the wheels and part B10 into place when doing the final assembly.

The final assembly of the suspension was approached in the same manner as the dry-fit. The exception being that the mating surfaces of parts were treated to a dab of Tamiya Extra Thin Cement - the exceptions being those parts I mentioned above which would not be fixed into place just yet.

You will recall that I mentioned reading ahead in the opening paragraphs. When reading ahead, I noted that in Chapter 4 Fixing of Wheels part B2, a D-shaped part which I think is some sort of track return guide or roller, is fitted on top of the suspension unit. I decided it make sense to attach these parts to the suspension units prior to painting, and thus decided to attach them during this chapter. Since the fitting of these parts would effectively define the suspension units as left or right, front or rear, I temporarily placed the suspension units into position and glued the part (B2) into place. I also noted that there was a small gap left on top of the suspension unit. Since I would be leaving the side-skirts off later, this would be visible so filling was required (I do not generally spend too much time cleaning and filling parts that will not be seen). The filling was done with a smear of Tamiya Putty, smoothed when wet with an old hobby knife blade, and later sanded smoother still.

A quick note on the M8 HMC's road wheels: The Tamiya kit is supplied with the open spoke road wheels, however it appears M8 HMCs used these open spoke wheels, the cast wheel, the closed (or welded) spoke wheel, or any combination of these. I have not seen any pictures of the closed spoke wheel used on the M8 HMC, however I am led to believe by those more knowledgeable than me that similar vehicles were using these toward the end of the war so it is fair to assume this was applied to the M8 HMC as well. There are resin replacement kits of the cast wheel available, but as I did not want to spend much more on the kit, I decided not to purchase as set. I believe that as there are a few photos of the open spoke wheel used, I am satisfied that this falls within my reasonably accurate satisfaction level.


The four sub-assemblies (main sub-assembly, two wheels, and part B10) making up each suspension unit.


The four completed suspension units, the four subassemblies dry-fitted together.

Step 1.2: Idler Wheels

Part two of Step 1 Construction of Wheels concerns the assembly of the two idler wheel assemblies. This was also the first stage during this build where I used PE and was required to do some scratch-building (sure it was only cutting plastic from a sheet, but scratch-building nonetheless).

Each idler wheel assembly consisted of three kit parts. With the exception of the idler wheels themselves, the left and right arms were easily differentiated from the other. Once removed from the sprue and cleaned each assembly was dry-fitted. Once again due to wanting to paint the wheels separately I left the units broken down.

This brings us to my first attempt at the kit's PE. The Eduard M8 HMC Exterior PE Kit requires the fitment of a small circular plate (presumably it is part of the idler wheel's suspension arm, perhaps a filler cap for suspension fluid?) to parts B3 and B4, with a 1mm spacer between the kit part and the PE.

By my reckoning there were two ways I could approach making the spacer. Option one was to cut the circle, then glue three parts together. Option two was to glue the PE (using CA glue) to the plastic card and then cut around the PE, creating the circle, and fix this to the kit part. I chose the latter, although in retrospect the former would have been the correct way to approach this task. In actual fact, once the PE was glued to the plastic card I did not cut a circle, but rather a square, and then nibbled away at it until it was cropped in under the PE. A bit rough, but it worked nonetheless. The part, once resembling a circle, was glued to the kit part. Once the glue had dried, the shape slightly further refined using sandpaper. And so my first PE and scratch-building experiences with this kit were complete.


Part B4 with spacer and PE part fixed.

The Eduard M8 HMC Exterior PE Kit provides wedge shaped pieces of PE which should be fitted between the spokes (both sides of the wheel) of the idler gears and effectively make it a solid idler gear. I have noted in photographs that quite a few M8 HMCs operated using the spoked idler wheel. For this reason as well as my decision to use the open road wheels, I decided not to use the PE parts, and to leave the idler wheels as the open version.


The components/sub-assemblies making up the left idler wheel unit.


The two idler wheel units, dry-fitted together.

In the next chapter we will assemble the drive sprockets.

I hope you all don't find this too boring.

Rudi

Hi Rudi,

Great to see some progress, the bogeys have gone together well.

One thing though about the eduard and plastic card parts you have added (nice technique cutting around the etch by the way, might try that method myself!) to the rear idler/return roller.
The extension Eduard tells you to build is actually for a later type of housing for a longer spring on the M5A1 model (this is another hangover from Tamiya using the M3 parts for the M5A1), and if you can get hold of a reference pic you'll see the top of the circle you cut out should be flush with the curve at the top of the housing.
Hate to say this after you just got started, but the correction is there should you fancy it.
Also if you want to, it was cast with the rest of the idler so you could use some putty to blend it in to look like one peice if you like?
Tell me to shut-up if you want, its just that with building it myself at the mo i'm tackling all the same issues myself!

Looking forward to reading more,

James

Hi James,

Thanks for your comments

Is "bogeys" the correct term for the suspension units?

Thanks for pointing out the incorrect placing of the circle jobbie. It's actually placed (incorrectly) per the Eduard instructions, so I'm really pleased you pointed this out (and if I'd paid more attention to Michael's TMD build I would have seen this as well ). Fortunately I don't think it'll be difficult to remove and reseat.

Given that this is the later idler wheel housing, do you think it would then be better to model the idler wheel as closed? Same for the road wheels? I was thinking, while on the tram this morning, that maybe I should consider doing the rear 2 road wheels on each side as welded closed, and leave the front 2 as open spoke. I don't want to spend too much time on something that won't be too noticeable to the untrained eye

Rudi

No worries Rudi, glad to be of service!

I beleive bogeys is the correct term but am happy to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable than myself.

M8's all had the later spring housing, but still would have been sent to Europe with open wheels until the pressed wheels were fitted at the factory (I don't know when this would be), it was while in Europe that some armoured divisions ordered them to have plates welded over (apparently order TB ORD 22 if that is of any use?)
Therefore it is perfectly accurate for you to have them as open spoke wheels. I have chosen to fill mine as a point of interest and to make my build a little different than straight OOB.
What I wouldn't do is really show a mix in the way you describe, as its an unlikely setup. I have seen the rear idler plugged and the roadwheels left open. But if a crew was to plug their roadwheels then they would do them all not just half. You could leave one wheel open as if it where a replacement perhaps?
I have found that it only takes about 5 minutes to plug a wheel when you have done one to get the idea, so it shouldn't take you long if you get the idea. I've found using a suitable width of PE fret works well, or you could use Ron's method of using plastic card.

Also one other thing about the rear spring housing. They also had a track skid on top that Tamiya ommits in the kit. It could easily be done with some PE fret. Let me know if you need some reference for this.

Cheers,

James

Wow, Tarok builds a tank!

Everything is looking fantastic and well planned so far.

I'm certainly one of the armour beginners you say this build log is aimed at... so I'll be learning with (or from) you.

Take it easy mate,

Chas

Hi James,

Thanks for the info A good friend has lent me Tankograd's M8 HMC Technical Manual - excellent stuff in there!

Hi Chas

Thanks for looking.

Rudi

Hi all,

Following the publication of the last chapter (Step 1) I became aware of two mistakes I naively made during the construction of the road wheel bogeys and the idler wheel units.

Below you'll see the corrected idler assemblies. I hope you don't mind, but this time I'm going to refer your to my blog for the text (it's a tad too warm here in Melbourne for me to type too much ). Blog entry: M8 HMC: Step 1 Errata




Rudi

Good to see some more progress Rudi, The corrections look great.

I should have mentioned the bolts Tamiya tell you to remove. You only need to do this if using the sand skirts as they were bolted to the bogeys using those two bolts, and so in order to get the kit ones to sit flush you have to remove them. Though when not using the skirts obviously you need to leave them on. Appologies.

I seem to be tackling my build in a different order and have decided to finish the lower hull interior first. Its together now and i'll be painting it this weekend hopefully.

I found the tamiya interior 'tub' completely inadequate and ended up re-building the sides, sponsons and firewall out of plastic card. I took some pics to illustrate this but rather than hijack your thread I decided to start my own to show my personal improvements on the kit.
This can be found here: Working Prototype - M8A1

Hopefully this will be of use to you and other modellers attempting to tackle this kit.

Keep up the good work,

James

Hi James,

Thanks for the comments, mate

I think it's really great having these 2 blogs running more or less in parallel - mine being for the beginner and your's for the more advanced modeller. It's terrific to get the 2 slightly different views and approaches to the kit

Rudi

Step 2 Drive Sprocket

Step 2 in building Tamiya’s M8 Howitzer Motor Carrier is titled “Drive Sprocket”, and deals with exactly that: the assembly of the track drive sprockets. In theory this is an easy step, with the modeller required to assemble two drive sprockets, each consisting of two parts. Unfortunately Tamiya got the track drive sprockets a bit wrong, so although this chapter is still fairly simple, it is not as simple as gluing two parts together.

As I mentioned above, Tamiya got the look of the track drive sprocket wrong: they provide an open sprocket, when in actual fact the M8 HMC was fitted with a solid drive sprocket. Fortunately the Eduard exterior PE set supplies four solid sprockets which can be fitted over both the inner and outer sprockets to make them look the part.


Above are the Tamiya kit instructions relevant to this chapter. The inset shows the Eduard instructions.

As you see from the above instructions, each track drive sprocket consists of only two parts, the inner sprocket (B9) and the outer sprocket (B8 ). After removing the parts from the sprue and cleaning up any blemishes, my first task was to remove the moulded bolt heads from the outer sprocket. I did this simply using a chisel blade fitted to my hobby knife, but I guess you could also use the grinding head of a rotary tool if you really fancy. Now the kit parts were ready to receive the PE sprockets.

A note to newcomers to photo-etch: photo-etch really can be quite sharp, so you really should practice caution both when removing it from the fret (the frame the PE is attached to) and when handling it.

Aligning the PE parts with the kit parts was simple enough – when dry-fitting it, that is. Why do I say that? Well, if you think about it, when aligning the PE part with the kit part you have to align each point of the PE part with the underlying plastic part – so you have fourteen points to align! Although fairly simple, it can be time consuming. Now try to do it with CA glue applied!

So here is how I handled this problem – and I must confess I only realised this method on a second go at aligning a set of parts. What I did was broke the task down: I only applied CA glue (note that I do not apply it directly from the tube, I put some on a piece of plastic card and then apply with a sharpened match stick or toothpick) to half the plastic part, and then quickly placed and aligned the PE part. Once the glue had set, I gently prised the unglued section of PE up, as seen in the below photo, applied more glue, and then pushed it back into position and clamped the whole part.


Above left you see one of the outer sprockets completed, while other has half the PE bent up for ease of gluing. Above right you see one of the sprockets being clamped.

The whole purpose of the PE parts is to transform the open track drive sprocket into a closed on. However, placing the part does not complete the transformation. When looking at the sprocket, one could see the gaps: one could see the gap in the centre of each sprocket between plastic and PE, as well as the open gears themselves were visible. And so, I decided on the route of least resistance: filling the gaps with Tamiya putty. Once this was done and the putty sanded smooth, the two parts of each track drive sprocket could be glued, and clamped, together.


Above left is one of the drive sprockets being clamped. Above right you see the two completed drive sprockets. Note the use of Tamiya putty visible inside the sprockets and in the centres.

This chapter is not quite over though. You may recall in the first part of this chapter I removed the bolt heads from the outer drive sprockets, and thus these need to be replaced.

Using some (approximately fourteen per sprocket) of the lengths of 0.5mm styrene hex rod which I cut while making the fixes in M8 HMC: Step 1 Errata I replaced each of the bolt heads on the outer sprockets. Each one was glued into place (there is a slight dimple on the PE part denoting the positioning of each bolt) using CA glue. Once all in place, I lightly sanded them all to approximately the same length.


The above left photo shows the front, or outer, of the two completed drive sprockets, while the above right shows the inside.

The next chapter is another short one, and covers the fixing of the drive shafts.

Rudi,

I will be watching your build closely as I am waiting for my M8 to arrive (as a result of a trade with "Chief"). He is send me the kit, the Eduard PE and from "Gulf11" I have picked up the Yanks #9711 M8 lower hull interior resin set. I was going to use the Academy M3 link to link / or maybe rubber band tracks as well, plus one of the new Academy M2 machine guns from their U.S. machine gun set.

Darryl

Hi Darryl,

Great to have you aboard. I'm really happy to hear that this little SBS may be of help. You should also check out James' excellent SBS above I've heard the Yanks interior kit is quite good - I assume you've checked out Terry Ashley's build of this kit?

Thanks again for the support

Rudi

looking good so far rudi, i've got this kit in my stash aswell but i'm gonna wait till i get some updates for it either that or wait to see if afv club release one considering they've already got two stuarts out. keep up the good work mate. Ant

Rudi,

Thanks for the welcome I will check out the other builds. The Yanks interior is quite nice and really dresses up the tamiya interior.

Darryl

Rudi,

Very nice work, I am watching with much interest. The M8 has always been a fav of mine.
Keep up the great work!

Hi Ant & Mark,

Glad to have you gents aboard

The next instalment is actually complete, I'm just under the pump at work at the moment, but will upload when I have time to spare.

Rudi

Another great update Rudi.

Interesting to see the Eduard PE used to fix this.

I used Tamiya sherman sprokets that took a bit of clearing up and alignment but also came out looking like they should.

James

M8 HMC: Step 3 Fixing of Drive Shaft

"Step 3 Fixing of Drive Shaft" is one of the shorter steps in assembling Tamiya kit 35110 M8 Howitzer Motor Carriage. It is also one of the easier - provided you simply follow the instructions and not deviate slightly as I did. Be that as it may, even with my minor changes this remains an easy and short chapter.


Above are the relevant Tamiya kit instructions.

As indicated above this step requires the attachment of two pairs of parts, namely the two drive shafts (A26 and A27) and what I assume to be two towing attachment points (both numbered A29), to the lower hull.

There is really not much to say about the actual attachment of these parts to the lower hull. There was the usual molding seams which needed to be cleaned, and then the parts were glued into place using Tamiya liquid glue. One thing I have noticed is that if the towing points are attached correctly per the kit, they do not angle down as with the real vehicle. I have chosen not to correct this minor blemish. The gaps around the drive shafts and the lower hull were filled with Tamiya putty - as is evidenced by my messy handiwork in below photos.


Above left shows the front of the lower hull and the tow hooks which should angle down. Above right is the drive shaft in place before filler putty is applied.

When paging through the Tankograd M8 HMC book, I noticed that the transmission (basically the front section of the lower hull which the drive shafts are attached to) features four bolt heads and what I think is a grease hole on each side of the front face. However the Tamiya hull does not represent this detail, replacing it with an ignominious casting seam.

Correcting this little detail was simple. "Guesstimating" when the grease holes should be, I gently drilled the holes using a 0.5mm drill bit and my pin-vice. I then glued two pieces of the 0.5mm styrene hex rod I had cut previously above the hole, and two below on each side of the transmission. I must admit to being skeptical that I got this 100% accurate (or even vaguely), but it looks the part so I am satisfied.

Back in the '80's when this kit was originally produced, it was released as a (electric) motorised model. The tell-tale signs can still be seen by the holes in the lower hull and some sort of struts for batteries. Given that the holes are on the underside of the hull I suppose one could ignore them, however I decided to fill them. I did this gluing a small piece of plastic card inside the hull, and then filling the holes with Tamiya putty.


Above left shows the plastic card over the holes. Above right shows the holes filled with putty prior to being sanded smooth.


Above shows the completed Step 3 Fixing of Drive Shaft with transmission bolts fitted.

The next chapter, Step 4 Fixing of Wheels, is a larger one wherein we will also tackle folding photo-etch and creating PE boxes.

Nic update Rudi, and good to see how you tackled the 'bolt holes' along the edge of the transmission housing, something I have yet to do.

While you are in this area you may want to correct the shape of the transmission, according to my references, the raised areas at the edge of the transmission, should 'blend' smoothly into the central section and not step down as on the Tamiya kit. This is because this was a cast part.

I corrected this by gluing small peices of plastic strip up against the step and then adding putty on top and smoothed the whole thing together with a round file and fine sandpaper. I then added mr. surfacer to blend the whole thing together and give it the correct cast texture.

You can just about see what I mean if you look at my pics and check them against your kit:




Appologies that they are not the best.

I still need to get those measurements to you, appologies for the delay.

James

Hi James,

As always thanks for the feedback. I've taken a lazy approach to fixing the trannie, and just rounded the edges using sandpaper.

Which Mr Surfacer are you using? I've found 1000 and 1500 in my LHS, but don't want to buy both unnecessarily.

Also, while we're discussing cast parts: which external parts were cast? Transmission, gun (the outside bit - you know what I mean ) and...?

TIA

Rudi

Mr. Surfacer 500 is the armour modellers choice, actually. The others are too "thin" for most armour jobs. The lower the number, the thicker the mix and the higher the percentage of "solids". The higher numbers are better at surface preparation for aircraft models where you spray it on and buff out fine sanding marks. Surfacer 500 is a better filler & better for the stippled casting surface technique.

If all you can get is 1000, then you can use it, but the effect will not be a s good as there is less plastic in the mix meaning that a given amount applies will dry out to a thinner layer in the end.

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the info - that's awesome. I'll try pick up some 500 - if not I'll use 1000 and stipple it further with a hard brush

Rudi

Nice to see this one progressing Rudi, looking forward to the next chapter.