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Tamiya 1/35 Panzer IV Ausf.J
bizzychicken
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Posted: Friday, February 06, 2009 - 09:18 AM UTC

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That's it for now. I still need to pick a prototype to emulate so feel free to throw out some suggestions. I would love to try an urban winter scheme, with angular whitewash patches over three color camo. The question is, did any early Js (as depicted in this kit) survive that long, and if so, with what unit?

-Doug

J where made nearly right to the end of the war, be it the ones with 3 return idlers. So I think that an early j would prob have had a whinter camo painted job early in 45
Damraska
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2009 - 12:41 AM UTC

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Also like the "Danger" note to the toothbrush! Very practical.



Hi Mark, thank you. I tend to leave tools lying around the house and I do not want any late night accidents. On the other hand, maybe grit from styrene, Squadron White, and Milliput will whiten teeth and freshen breath!


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As an alternative; you can scratchbuild the schurzen from plastic plate.



Hi Marc, thank you. I am going that route on the next one. If I add hull skirts to this one I will use brass, just to follow through on the experiment.


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Awesome! Your zimmerit is impressive. Do you plan on placing figures on her?



Hi DJ and thanks. I am learning a lot as I go, and applying the zimmerit gets a bit easier and faster with each session. With regards to figures, I already closed all the hatches and doubt I will include any. I really enjoy painting fantasy figures but cannot seem to get behind military ones. In fact, I've never painted one. On the other hand, I thought about painting a couple in relation to this build and bought the Masterbox Checkpoint set for that purpose. So...maybe.


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J where made nearly right to the end of the war, be it the ones with 3 return idlers. So I think that an early j would prob have had a whinter camo painted job early in 45



Hi Geraint, I am also thinking that a vehicle built in May or June of 1944 may have survived into the winter. The 33rd Panzer Regiment of 9th Panzer division had 79 Panzer IVs when it activated to attack the Normandy beachhead. It arrived just in time to get caught in the Falaise pocket with only 12 tanks escaping. After reconstitution, the unit participated in the Battle of the Bulge. In February of 1945 the unit mounted an unsuccessful attack on the Remagen Bridge. At that time the unit still had some Panzer IV Hs or early Js. So, I am thinking of modeling a hypothetical tank that survived the Falaise pocket, Battle of the Bulge, and ended up in the Remagen Bridge battle. This would allow me to use the complex paint scheme I have in mind.



My impression of a Zerg infested Panzer IV...



I applied most of the fixtures to the upper hull sides and then added zimmerit around them. The zimmerit wheel could not reach many of the confined spaces so I used the stylus and tweezers for much of the work. Zimmerit application varied from tank to tank, factory to factory, and time to time. I chose to model a tank with fairly comprehensive zimmerit after reviewing a large selection of period photos. However, this configuration may not match an actual vehicle.

All of the individual track links and most of the tools now sit ready for assembly. Construction and preliminary painting should wrap up this weekend.

-Doug
M4A2Sherman
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2009 - 05:18 AM UTC
You have intensive skills for your first panzerIV!
M4A2Sherman
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2009 - 06:53 AM UTC
where the left rear fender/ mudguard has been bent the zimmerit appears to have been bent with it. i think zimmerit was quite brittle and would probably have fractured when the fender was bent, and may well have come off completely. maybe a few cracks would look better, or you could just scrape at it with a knife, leaving only small pieces?
bizzychicken
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2009 - 07:00 AM UTC
Zimmerit was never perfect,coming out of the factories, overworked underfed workers. What do you expect. so as far as your zim looks i would say its perfect. Looking forward to this iregular paint job, sounds intresting.
scratchmod
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2009 - 05:21 PM UTC
HI Doug, I must say your doing an outstanding job on this PzIV, I've learned a few things reading your build here. the close up photos help a lot too.
I'll keep watching and learning, especially when it comes to the PzIV.

Rob
integraguy95
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2009 - 06:14 PM UTC
Jeez, i leave for a week and this thing just takes off! This is outstanding work again Rob. I suppose this means that you are taking some time away from the wrecked IV?
Damraska
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Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 08:01 PM UTC

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You have intensive skills for your first panzerIV!



Hi Q and thank you. I find myself working a bit harder at this project with the universe looking over my shoulder.


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where the left rear fender/ mudguard has been bent the zimmerit appears to have been bent with it. i think zimmerit was quite brittle and would probably have fractured when the fender was bent, and may well have come off completely. maybe a few cracks would look better, or you could just scrape at it with a knife, leaving only small pieces?



Hi Luke, I think you are right. I went back and scrapped some zimmerit off that fender along the bend line to make it look cracked. I will post pictures with the next batch.


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Zimmerit was never perfect,coming out of the factories, overworked underfed workers. What do you expect. so as far as your zim looks i would say its perfect. Looking forward to this iregular paint job, sounds intresting.



Hi Geraint, thank you again for your comments on the zimmerit. I am very happy with it so far. Hopefully the camo will turn out as well.


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HI Doug, I must say your doing an outstanding job on this PzIV, I've learned a few things reading your build here. the close up photos help a lot too. I'll keep watching and learning, especially when it comes to the PzIV.



Hi Rob. That is a huge compliment coming from you. Your project looks fantastic and is about three magnitudes more complex than mine.


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Jeez, i leave for a week and this thing just takes off! This is outstanding work again Rob. I suppose this means that you are taking some time away from the wrecked IV?



Hi Justin, I think you have Rob and I confused. We are both working on Panzer IVs, his being the much more detailed and elaborate.



I am considering placing the Panzer IV in a diorama involving elements of the Master Box Checkpoint set. This set includes a small guard shack, a road barrier, one tank obstacle, two German soldiers, and three civilians (man, woman, and child).

Six parts comprise the shack. The four walls feature very subtle subtle wood-grain texture on both sides. The floor and roof also have texture, but only on one side. Locator tabs on the inside of each piece assist with alignment. I cut these off and restored the corresponding groves between planks. The walls consist of vertical wood planks with no structural elements so I added some cross beams with thick plastic card.

The two dogs look fine for plastic but need some sanding, filling, and sculpting to remove the center seam. The tank obstacle consists of three L-beams (not I-beams as shown on the box) and some reinforcing parts. I could not make this look right, cut off the reinforcing parts, and took my best guess at construction.



The Panzer IV features a prominent bustle container spaced a small distance from the back of the turret. I decided to paint each element individually before the surfaces became unreachable. Blue painters tape masks off key contact points between the two structures.



I belong to the "many at once" school of model construction. Before an airbrushing session I collect up all parts I wish to paint and assemble them on the work bench. I also pick out all required paints and tools. When ready, I move everything to my airbrushing station in the garage.

When painting a large group of parts the same color I fold a piece of white paper in half, lay down lines of blue painters tape (sticky side up), and place the parts on these strips. If a given card holds parts from more than one model, I place the parts in obvious groups and label them . This often happens days or even weeks before a painting session.

In a given airbrushing session I always start with anything needing a clear coat. After that I usually work from light to dark colors, but painting requirements may dictate a different order. Since I use many kinds of paint (Testors, Tamiya, Humbrol, Acrylic, Enamel, Laquor), often in the same session, I clean my airbrush with lacquer thinner. This requires extensive protection--a spray booth with exhaust fan, two stage gas mask, and airbrush cleaning station to capture as much thinner as possible. This all happens out in the garage with the door open.



After painting a given assembly or card I move it back to the workbench to dry. I usually place a fresh sheet of white paper under freshly painted items--a quick, cheap, dust free surface. After the session I sort the parts by project into sealable storage containers.

During this session I tried out a new technique--using a circle template to paint road wheels (thank you, Bill Plunk). I was worried that a thin template would flex while painting so I used a thick, rigid template instead. I started by painting the tire portion of each wheel black. About an hour later--painting many projects at once actually helps in situations like this--I painted the hubs. I placed each wheel on a small square of paper towel (the cheap kind--no lint), pushed the wheel up against the template, lined up the hub, squeezed to get a tight fit, then painted. The template did not flex so the hub was perfect each time unless I lined it up incorrectly or released pressure too soon. What a huge improvement over painting these things by hand! The thickness of the template made it somewhat difficult to paint complex surfaces. This technique absolutely requires an airbrush stand! I dumped my color cup twice, holding the airbrush between my knees, before improvising a stand with some clamps. (I use a side loading Iwata airbrush and normally remove the color cup before putting the airbrush down.) I painted the hub side of all 36 wheels, laying them out in order, then started at the beginning of the line and painted the backs. After finishing a wheel I put the airbrush down, put the wheel on a toothpick, and stuck that in a styrofoam brick to dry. Later, I scrapped unwanted paint from contact surfaces and assembled each set of wheels.

Though I did not complete as much as I had hoped over the weekend, I did finish all preliminary painting on the Panzer IV and can now finish assembly. Of course, I now have two other tanks to weather...

-Doug
Damraska
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Posted: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:43 PM UTC
I decided the brass skirt supports looked too thin. I then found an excellent Stug IV build with plastic skirts. So then, Plan B.



The left front skirt supports ended up 1mm closer together than the right front supports. I will try to fix that later. The ends of the back skirt should meet the doors tangentally. Even with these errors the scratch skirts look decent. I also moved the brackets for locking the turret doors to the correct position and rebuilt the commander's blade sight.



The hinge arrangement on the Tamiya skirt door parts does not match photos. I based my construction on period photos though I cannot vouch for the exact dimensions.



The left side skirt doors will remain open on the finished model.



The kit parts feature very simplified latches. My construction matches period photos, though I cannot vouch for the exact dimensions.



The outer part of each hinge bolts to the skirts. Welds connect the inner part of each hinge to the door parts. The front two rails bolt to the skirts. The rear rails were apparently welded to the rear skirts.

-Doug
Damraska
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Posted: Friday, February 13, 2009 - 12:02 PM UTC
I decided to build up the tracks before adding all the small photo etched parts associated with the tools. I give a brief description of my track assembly procedure below. WARNING: Do not start track assembly as described below unless you have enough uninterrupted time to complete the procedure. Failure to finish a run in one session could render the entire run permanently unusable. I use Testors liquid cement for this procedure, which gives plenty of working time. Please consider that other cements may allow more or less working time.



Picture 1: Track construction began by building sets of five tracks using Testors liquid cement. After building a set, I made sure the links sat together correctly and used a metal ruler to push the links flat. I laid out the sets on my cutting board, from left to right, in order of assembly. After assembling 6 sets I connected sets one and two. From this point on I alternated between building new sets and attaching the oldest set to the growing track run. For example, assemble set 7. Connect set three to the tail of the track run. Assemble set 8. Connect set 4 to the tail of the track run. And so forth. When assembling links that can connect from either side, make sure the track pads point in the same direction in every set and run! This is not an issue with Panzer IV track, but look often when assembling Sherman track. Also, if you happen upon a broken or deformed link, put it aside. There are usually plenty of spares and a bad link could put a kink in your run.

Picture 2: After attaching a new set to the track run I pushed the entire run flat with a metal ruler, both against the desk and against the edge of the cutting board. This keeps the track run flat and straight.

Picture 3: As the track run grew, I also picked out the best links and set them aside to the upper left. These links will eventually become the spare track runs on the bow.

Picture 4: If you are not sure how long to make your tracks, take a piece of paper, cut a long strip, and wrap it around the tank running gear. Mark where the ends connect and use this as a ruler to measure the correct run length. Build the track one link longer than measured. If the run ends up too long, just pull off the extra link from the tail of the run. In this case I know the runs measure approximately 99 links. This picture shows a complete run, though I have yet to add the last 4 sets. I use a black Sharpie marker on every tenth link, making them easy to count.



Picture 5: I immediately launched into building the second run. Do not attempt this unless you can build both runs fairly quickly--in 60 to 90 minutes. The runs remain flexible for quite some time because the liquid cement melts the plastic at the contact points. However, the runs eventually go rigid and must rest securely on the model before that happens.

Picture 6: Set up the running gear on the side of your model. Put the idler wheel axle in place and drop the road wheels, drive sprocket, and idler wheel onto the appropriate axles. Leave the return rollers aside for now. Do not glue the idler wheel axle in place--wait until securing the completed tracks to the model. This allows adjustment of the idler wheel as required to tension the tracks. Do not glue any of the wheels, idlers, or sprockets in place. If you have difficulty managing so many loose parts, secure them with Blue Tac or a similar temporary adhesive. I did not use any adhesives for this example. I used a paint jar to position the hull at a good angle, keeping the wheels in place while preventing damage to the opposite side skirt rails.

Picture 7: Wrap the head of the track run about 1/3 around the drive sprocket. Now, go back and check your references to make sure you are putting the track on in the right direction! Look at more than one tank--sometimes real crews put them on in the wrong direction.

Picture 8: About halfway down the track, wrap the run around the idler.



Picture 9: Connect the tail to the head at the drive sprocket to form a loop. If you connect the ends somewhere else, you may have a very difficult time getting the sprocket free of the track! The track will remain somewhat flexible, but do not make any sharp kinks. Double check the track direction.

Picture 10: Slip the track run onto the running gear. I usually put the idler in place, loop the far end of the track around the idler, then secure the sprocket. You will probably knock off some wheels. After you get the idler and sprocket in place, drop any wheels that fell off back into place. You must now judge the track length--too much, too little, or just right. If just right, proceed to the next step. If too much, take the track off, pull a link off the tail end, and try again. The glue will generally not grab fresh plastic at this point, but DO NOT accidentally glue the loop closed! If too short, add a link or two, wait five minutes, and try again. The newly added link(s) will end up on the drive sprocket and so held in place by the teeth.

Picture 11: Once satisfied with the track length, tape the run closed at the sprocket. I use blue panter's tape.

Picture 12: Install the run back on the model as described under Picture 10. Add the return rollers.



Picture 13: Using small squares of paper towel (the cheap kind that does not release a lot of lint), make flexible shims and add whatever degree of slack you feel appropriate. I start at the drive sprocket and work aft, placing the paper towel shims between the return rollers. For a tack with little or no slack, place the shim right above the rollers, with just enough tension to keep the track in position. Make sure the shims are of equal thickness all the way through, or you may put a kink in the top of the run.

Picture 14: The shims take up the slack, such that the track run now grabs the running gear tightly. The links will pull together somewhat as they dry, so do not try to make the runner extremely tight. I actually build in some play in anticipation of shrinkage. If the tracks shrink too much, the adjustable idler axle will allow you to move the idler forward and correct for the loss of length.

Picture 15: Lightly apply some blue painters tape to keep everything in place while adding the opposite track run. If you used temporary adhesive to secure the running gear you can skip this step. WARNING: If you only built up one track run, or built up one track run and intend to build the other during another session, sit the model flat on its track and shim up the opposite side so that the tank sits level. If you do not do this the tracks may dry pigeon toed!

Picture 16: Place the second track run on the model, then sit the whole thing flat on a level surface to dry.



Picture 17: On this model I removed the shims after one hour. On some models, especially Panthers and Tigers, I leave the shims in place much longer. By adding more or less links and adjusting the idler wheel axle you can add more or less sag to a run. Give the tracks at least one full day to dry, then disassemble the running gear for painting. If you intend to wait a while between assembly and painting, leave the tracks on the model. This will help prevent excessive shrinkage.

To avoid alignment problems with the hull skirts I used the kit supplied brackets. However, I sanded the brackets to a much thinner profile and replaced the rails entirely.

I do not like the tool clamps in the Eduard set and need to find or order new ones. Until then--I'm thinkin Jagdsherman.

-Doug
scratchmod
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Posted: Friday, February 13, 2009 - 12:37 PM UTC
Hi Doug, That Pz IV of yours look great, I can't get over how nice the Zim looks. I like your method of gluing the indi links, I do it the same way except in two parts,upper and lower sections. I'll have to try your method out, thanks. Nice job on the turret schurzen,they look right to me .

Rob
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Posted: Friday, February 13, 2009 - 01:07 PM UTC
what can i say Doug that panzer IV is looking sweet, can't wait to see the finished product all painted up.
Damraska
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Posted: Monday, February 16, 2009 - 12:16 AM UTC

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Hi Doug, That Pz IV of yours look great, I can't get over how nice the Zim looks. I like your method of gluing the indi links, I do it the same way except in two parts,upper and lower sections. I'll have to try your method out, thanks. Nice job on the turret schurzen,they look right to me .



Hi Rob, Thanks for the kind words. I'm very happy with the zimmerit so far. It came out a bit too thick in a couple places, and I could not reach a few places with the tool, but overall the effect looks convincing. I want to get the Lion Roar zimmerit tool and try that next.

I also learned to build individual link tracks in two pieces per run. One day I thought, "I bet these are flexible enough to to get away with one piece". I tried it, the tracks turned out fine, and I've been doing runs in one piece broken at the sprocket ever since.

The turret skirts are definitely off. Overhead pictures in the Spielberger Panzer IV book, which I know you have, clearly show the correct orientation. Mine bulge a bit at the doors--not badly, but enough to annoy someone silly enough to rebuild turret skirts.

-Doug
Damraska
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Posted: Monday, February 16, 2009 - 12:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text

what can i say Doug that panzer IV is looking sweet, can't wait to see the finished product all painted up.



Hi Ant, thanks for the vote of confidence. I ordered some tool clamps so work should proceed in a few days. I also want to add some more bolts and details here and there, but that should not take very long. I just hope I get a clear day to paint sometime soon!

-Doug
marcb
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Posted: Monday, February 16, 2009 - 12:53 AM UTC
Didn't this start as a "getting back into the hobby" project?

It looks great. Very well done.
koenele
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Posted: Monday, February 16, 2009 - 01:15 AM UTC
great work!
very clean!
love it
scratchmod
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Posted: Monday, February 16, 2009 - 02:20 AM UTC
Hi Doug
If your adding bolts here and there,don't forget the ones on the rear hull plate. The upper and lower sections were bolted together, just below the circular hatch. Looking forward to seeing this baby painted.

Rob
Tanker9
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Posted: Monday, February 16, 2009 - 05:26 PM UTC
Awesome and very, very nice detailed work so far!
sptifire
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Posted: Monday, February 16, 2009 - 06:57 PM UTC
Doug

Looks great. One thing the Tamiya muzzel brake is totally inaccurate for a Panzer IV J and way undersized. Check out some pictures of the real thing and you will see what I mean. An easy replacement can be found in the DML 75mm PAK 40 kit which comes with three different types of muzzl brakes.


Chria
exer
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Posted: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 04:46 AM UTC
Good work Doug. I have a built Pzr IV J somewhere that I stripped the paint from and this might just inspire me to find it and put some zimmerit and etch on it
Damraska
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Posted: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 01:49 PM UTC

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Didn't this start as a "getting back into the hobby" project? It looks great. Very well done.



It was--in 2002. I aborted that foray into plastic models and did not try again until 2006. Now I have a few years of experience and am trying to get the old girl done!


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great work! very clean! love it



Thank you very much Koen and welcome aboard!


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If your adding bolts here and there,don't forget the ones on the rear hull plate.



Hi Rob. Thank you for reminding me about that. The Eduard photo-etch set comes with a strip that goes over the lip and includes the bolt heads. Unfortunately, I installed that part back in 2002. If I did it today I would use the part as a template to add my own bolts. I do not want to scratch up the rear end so I will leave the photo-etched part in place and add the rest of the bolt details to the underside of the lip.


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Awesome and very, very nice detailed work so far!



Thank you very much, Mark!


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Looks great. One thing the Tamiya muzzel brake is totally inaccurate for a Panzer IV J and way undersized. Check out some pictures of the real thing and you will see what I mean. An easy replacement can be found in the DML 75mm PAK 40 kit which comes with three different types of muzzl brakes.



Thank you so much for that, Chris. I looked at a lot of photos and replaced the muzzle break with one from the DML PaK 40 as per your recommendation. I think I picked the correct one. If not, please let me know!


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Good work Doug. I have a built Pzr IV J somewhere that I stripped the paint from and this might just inspire me to find it and put some zimmerit and etch on it



Thank you very much, Pat. It is still a very nice kit and I actually enjoyed adding all the zimmerit.

And now an update:



I have installed all the parts from the Eduard photo-etch set minus the clamps, which I sourced from a Lion Roar set. I still like Aber clamps the best but these look good.



A word of warning to anyone using the Eduard photo-etch set for this model--the basket for the C hooks is too wide. As designed, the part simply cannot fit on the fender. I sliced the basket in three, tossed the center portion, shortened the top arm, and then put it back together. The resulting assembly matches period photos better, anyway.



Adding zimmerit around all the bolts, brackets, screw holes, and panel groves requires a lot of patience. I rolled a small batch of Milliput into a rope, cut off small portions, and carefully squashed each piece into place with a damp toothpick. The same toothpick easily removed soft Milliput from unwanted areas. I was forced to rely on the stylus portion of the zimmerit tool for most of the pattern due to the numerous obstructions. I did not add zimmerit to the left brake cooling vent because I ran out of putty.

At this point I need to sand the muzzle break, add a bunch of bolts, put zimmerit on the bow, make side skirts, figure out what to do for extra stowage, and finish a PaK 40 in towed configuration. And wiring.

-Doug
tjkelly
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Posted: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 - 08:58 PM UTC
Excellent build log to date Doug, have looked at it a couple of times before commenting. Lot's of details and extra work that have been put into your Panzer IV, especially like your zimmerit technique. Am going to have to give that a try one of these days.

Looking forward to seeing you put some paint on it, will be a shame though to cover up all the 'extras'!

Keep at it, will be following the rest of your project. Cheers -

Tim
Damraska
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Posted: Friday, April 03, 2009 - 11:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Excellent build log to date Doug, have looked at it a couple of times before commenting. [...] Looking forward to seeing you put some paint on it, will be a shame though to cover up all the 'extras'!



Hi Tim. Thank you for the nice comments. I often feel the same way when it comes time to paint--almost disappointing to hide all the work. This time I am taking lots of pictures as I go. They will probably outlive the model, anyway.

I have a tendency to lose focus and split my time between many projects--old and new. True to form, over the last few weeks I started dabbling on an old M47 Patton for the "Get it Done" campaign, a "What if" Jagdsherman, a Chevy Corvette, a Dodge Viper, and an old M24 Chaffee. The Panzer IV slowly drifted to the back of the workbench. Earlier this week I forced myself to put those other projects back in their boxes, pull out the Panzer IV and related items, and push ahead.



As I wrote earlier, I want to model a tank from 9th Panzer Division near the Remagen bridgehead in February 1945. The exact vehicle appears in a color profile on page 96 of Wehrmacht Panzer Divisions 1939-45 by Jorge Rosado and Chris Bishop. The profile was painted by Jean Restayn and depicts a Panzer IV Ausf. H with full skirts but some missing panels. As anyone who compares color profiles to real vehicles will discover, they often do not match! I spent many hours trying to hunt down the photograph inspiring the profile to no avail. I did find conjecture about the vehicle mirroring my own thoughts--it was probably an early Panzer IV Ausf. J.

The 9th Panzer Division activated in July to attack the Normandy beachhead, arriving just in time to become trapped in the Falaise pocket. Only about a dozen of the unit's tanks escaped. After rebuilding the unit participated in the later stages of the Battle of the Bulge. The unit subsequently mounted an unsuccessful attack against the Remagen bridgehead and ultimately ended up trapped in the Ruhr pocket.

Though extremely unlikely, I intend to model a veteran Panzer IV, survivor of all those fights along the Western Front, cleaned up and repaired for one last battle. I presume the unit would save as much equipment as possible using all means available so the tank will tow a fairly new PaK 40. That is my story and I am sticking to it!



For the towed gun I used DMLs PaK 40 Premium Edition with a Voyager etch set. The PaK model also supplied a correctly proportioned muzzle break for the Panzer IV (it includes three!). I chose to base my PaK 40 on one in the Littlefield Tank Collection. You will find a complete walkaround here:

http://www.ipmssantarosa.org/feature_walk/walk_008_pak40/walk_008_pak40.htm

The Voyager set represents a slightly different weapon than the one in the Littlefield Tank Collection so I find myself leaving off or modifying a fair number of parts. In addition, the gun sight on the model does not line up with the vision slit in the Voyager gun shield. I pushed the sight mount out with some plastic tubing. This arrangement actually matches the prototype better. The Voyager set for this model fights me every step of the way so the PaK looks rather messy. When ready for paint I will clean it up with some acetone and a soapy bath. Hopefully it will look much better with a coat of paint.

-Doug
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KitMaker: 1,226 posts
Armorama: 819 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 02:43 AM UTC
Doug,
Great progress and very nice workmanship! Looking forward to seeing it with a coat of paint.
Darryl
Removed by original poster on 04/10/09 - 10:26:36 (GMT).