Earlier on today, I posted a couple of links to the P.M.M.S. Reviews of the Sd.Kfz 7/1s which have just been released. I also expressed a little disappontment that bearing in mind the interest, hype and (heated) discussion these models have generated, up to now, none of Armorama's Site-Users have contributed their own Reviews.

So, as always, this poses the question: Where does the (seeming) reluctance to contribute come from?

The Network is not simply a series of Bulletin boards. We get an extraordinary level of 'Traffic' and have over 37,000 registered users. There does though, seem to be a certain reluctance to 'engage',

Simple question, with doubtless many possible answers, but simply put:

Why Not?

By way of explanation, this isn't ANY kind of criticism, it's a genuine attempt to find out why some people feel they can't contribute and hopefull encourage them to take the 'first-step' into putting a more permament stamp on THEIR site...

Well put, Jim. I for one think member-contributed reviews are the best thing about this site. How 'bout a contest for the best review? Maybe only first-time reviewers could be eligible?
Thoughts, anyone?

Ok - I'll join in.

Ignorance, fear, and time.

A large segment of the membership do not know that they "CAN" or "HOW" to do it. I know there's a submissions link and instructions and a willing and able staff to help. See point 3.

There is a certain amount of fear in submitting content. Not out and out horor movie fear, but fear of staff rejection (what if my review/feature isn't up to standards), fear of industry rejection (my opinion isn't accepted), fear that my 'gear' isn't good enough (camera, editor)fear of the subject knowledge (my knowledge isn't up to standards), fear of success...

Time - the killer. If we all actually implemented 1/2 of the 'you know I should ______' the world would be a vastly more productive place. How many of us open a kit, or build a kit and say to ourselves: "Man this is good, I need to write a review/snap shots for a feature" only to have it slip to the bottom of the Honey Do list or it falls behind homework never to see the light of day.
I think that there is a large population of members who come to the site and navigate 'thier special places' and leave. This may be forums for some, news for others, home page for a few. They never take the time to look around the network. Can't tell you how many answers to posts I provide with a full feature. If the time was spent looking for the answer vs. asking the question the feature would have been found.
This last part is human nature, we fall into habits that are hard to get out of.
Now I need to get back to the project I was building for a review !!!

Without reading all of that (don't have time!!) . . .

Was there not a nice crop of features produced by the feature competition? I noticed the winners' ones were published, and one I did was, and then one or two others, but I thought there had been a big response and there would have been dozens, leading to at least a new one every week for a few months - am I wrong?

I will write another one soon, I absolutely promise, not that I think I have anything particularly useful to say about my modelling (!!) but think there is an interesting story relating to the M13/40. It could almost be a review of the Italeri kit, but that won't be the primary purpose.

One problem with reviews is possibly the need to be "up with" what is going on and being prepared to build it, and perhaps quite quickly. Sorry to say, my builds take months, perhaps others find this too . . .

One comment on Scott's post, he says "Can't tell you how many answers to posts I provide with a full feature. If the time was spent looking for the answer vs. asking the question the feature would have been found. "
In some ways, that may actually discourage people - you see on those techy geek sites where people are practically threatened with being flamed in hell if they dare ask a question that anyone else has asked and answered within the last 5 years. That implies that in order to join in you have to be at a certain level of knowledge. Admittedly, people could perhaps do their own research sometimes, but I have to say you often don't find things that other people remember and can point you at, because by its very nature, searching is not always reliable, being based on text matches. Also some searches will just result in wading through tons of mediocre info, while that real pearl of wisdom is on page 16 of 32 and you never get there, while someone else may remember who said it and where.

I don't know why people don't contribute (I did, I do and I'm going to). I don't review many kits because:
1. I don't build many of them
2. Usually when I buy something I find that it already has been reviewed (I often buy kits after I check the review to be sure that I want to buy them).

As Jim said we do have a lot registered members, but take under consideration also second thing - how many of them are constantly logged in here? After 1,5 year here I'm starting to recognize people that are here every day and write a lot on forums, take part in campaigns and contribute as a one group and second group of people that appear here from time to time, read, write few posts and disappear for another week or month. It is quite hard to ask a person that doesn’t have enough time or is not interested in this site enough to be here several times a week (or day) to spend additional time taking pictures, writing article and submitting it here.
Another thing: when I came here for a first time I looked at contributors as at some kind of super-people ("Man, they know so much that they are allowed to contribute on this great site... Masters of model making!"). After few weeks I've realized that you don't have to have super-powers to write and contribute here and that everyone is welcome to contribute, that this is site made by modelers for modelers.

I don't think that contest for the best review would be good idea: first of all many people would review just for contest (if it would concern only first-timers it would often be their first and last review). Second thing I cannot imagine the rules (how to compare the review of complex vehicle model and review of PE barbed wire?).

Another thing... imagine how many kits I could review instead of writing this too long post

Andrzej

The killer for me is simply time. I contribute as and when I can, though i'm rarely the first with new parts or kits and so its also rare I get anything that hasn't already had a look in by someone else.
At the moment life is pretty hectic and I get very little time to build let alone contribute. Even my visits to the site are getting spaced further apart, simply because i've got so much going on.
When life cools down, i'll be contributing again.

This is just for me, not sure how others feel, but Scott makes some good points.

James

Matthew - well put.
I'm not trying to discourage people from posting questions. I will now take a gentler look at how I actually answer the posts that a feature can address.

I think that if people would explore a bit outside the forums they would be surprised at what they find. Which comes back to time and the lack there of. There is soooo much here that it does take time to look around.
I just tried a quick google search of "armorama mud technique" and got 209 hits. I just posted a new feature on Mud and wanted to see how easy it was to find. Wow, just searching through that was time consuming.

Scott, I do believe that the search so difficult also because of lack of time check what was written i.e. in features and posting simple question on forum.
How many of these 209 were simple forum questions "how to make mud? what thechnique is best?"?

Absolutley the seach results are dependant on how you phrase your search text. Just a case in point that time is a key factor and it's sometimes easier to ask a question than do a search.
Time time time... where do we get more?

We should invite Stephen Hawking to this discussion - he may have some answers...

According to Alexa.com, which I went to the other day when I couldn't get access to the site, the average amount of time spent on this site is just over 3 minutes. Most appear to browse quickly.

I didn't feel adequate enough to participate and spent about a year observing. Then I started paticipating, and it took another year before I actually posted something I had done. I recieved a lot of positive feedback. No one made fun or insulted me. Members of this community with far greater skill than I have gave encouraging feedback. I can say to anyone putting off participation or afraid to get in that there is nothing to be afraid of.

I did one review fo the 1/6 scale forum, and am completing another. I bought the Cyberhobby Panzer II. I think it was already reviewed for this site but I would be happy to do one (or add another). I have been browsing the reviews page looking to see what hasn't been done as well as looking for new kits (like the M4 composite and the 75 and 105 howitzers) that I wish to get and will provide reviews for.

Time is always a factor, but sometimes the direct inviatation is what is needed. Maybe a post with a list of 10-20 kits that reviews are wanted/needed for. If you (ask them to) build it they will come. Maybe propose a review or build/review campaign or create an emblem (like the campaign ribbons or the rank insignia) for reviews.

The majority will probably still watch on the side (just like everywhere else) but at least a few more will get involved.

I try to contribute as much as possible.

I have made 1 review a couple months ago and another one is already in construction. I've said I'm interested to do one of the review samples and just need to wait before I know to which person it goes.

I have also entered the DMoM once and will enter it again this month.

My M2A2 Bradley is finished (photo's tomorrow) and I will send an On Display.

There will probably be more things in the near future, but I don't know exactly what and how.

Lars

Jim intereasting thread.

now its about time some of the people on the site who keep hitting the I didn't find this helpful button to actually contribute to the site!

ive have a couple of reviews that are almost finished i just addy the final bits.

I dont finish enough stuff regualr to enter the DMOM

but that will Change

Very fair question,Jim. I'm hobbled on this route of contribution in a couple of ways:
1) I'm not much of a rivet counter,very little referance material at hand to tell the reader if the kit is accurate. Not much experiance with PE as it just doesn't impress me outside of engine screen applications-I'll scratch what I need if I need.
2) I'm slow at building as this recreation shares spare time with fishing and golf
3) If my bench were a disk drive,there would be 0 'free space' and would take 4 days to de-frag it.
I do indeed truly appreciate those that do review kits here and elsewhere and value their opinions and insights.Thanks to all of you. You're better men than I!
cheers!

I will give my opinion about contrubuting. I was reluctant to contribute when I first joined. I felt I did not have enough experience and expertice to do so. After I looked it over I finally realized that everyone's opinion is useful. It took me some time to get a camera so I did books and magazine reviews at first. Now that I have a camera I can do kits and other items.
Everyone should try and learn how to join in. The one way to start contributing is read reviews here and try and understand the process. Their is help available for anyone who needs it. Read a few reviews, then take a kit out of your stash and work up a review. I make a review on excell so I can readily change it if needed. When I have it the way I want I can copy and paste to the review form here. It just takes a bit of practice and time. Join if if you can It can be a good deal of fun.
Joe

I could not agree more with this post. Particularly, I am very impressed with the high degree of detail that a lot of the modelers have on the whole Kitmaker community. That is one thing I enjoy. Point #1 really reached me, as I feel a little intimidated to post something that someone would find numerous inaccuracies (in the kit or the build).

One thing that is very important is the enjoyment I get from the hobby. That is important to me. It is also important to be able to admire others' abilities, and recognize those who are working at ALL levels (OOB, etc.).

The staff and other modelers on this site are terrific. I enjoy it immensely, and participate.
My $.02. Thanks,
Matt

This same topic has been brought up several times here before, and recently I might add.

I think one of the biggest factors is the amount of time it takes to put together a decent review or feature, I try to contribute as much as I can and often times I really have to make sacrifices with my personal time in order to crank out a review, that's tough to do when you work full time, have a family and houses etc to maintain.

Many people may not have a scanner or a good digital camera and simply lack the skills or know how to take decent digital photographs.

I'm sure in many cases people either don't have the latest kit or if they do they're not going to build it anytime soon. How many of us actually have the Sd.Kfz 7/1? Not many I'd be willing to bet.

For many this is a hobby which they do it for fun and relaxation (like myself). Writing reviews and articles can be fun, but it's a lot of work. After a long week I want to spend time on my bench, not taking pictures and writing while my work languishes on the bench.

Being able to write a good critical review also requires good reference materials and a fair amount of knowledge, many out there are still learning.

I'd also be willing to bet that the reviews and contributions submitted on other sites are done by the same handful of individuals just like we see here. Not everyone wants to be a writer.

We can ask this question over and over again but it all boils down to the same key reasons.

It sounds to me like many of you feel intimidated?

So in the case of the high-level of excellence you see here, would a way around the intimidation brought about by this be the creation of a beginners forum where you can post amongst other newbies? A place where it's very clear that rivet counting and some of the more "passionate" (I hesitate to say aggressive) modellers should reign themselves in?

Hi Guys,

I believe there were about 60 reviews submitted last month. That's pretty awesome.

If I understand Jim's post correctly it's in two parts. One about a specific kit and two about contributions in general, not specifically reviews but actively taking parts in the threads.

On the specific vehicle it might me a bit like the American half track, people get scared off in case they get it wrong. I expected to see M3s all over the place but unless I missed iot that didn't happen.

On point two well that's down to the individual. I had little or know knowledge when I started but I just asked a lot of questions and kept asking, then got some books and read all I could about what I was trying to build. Who cares if you get it wrong, just go back and fix it, all part of the fun, but you have to take that first step and get engaged. If I look at a post I try and respond as I know how long it takes to get even a basic post organised from taking and up loading the pictures to posting the thread.

it would be impossible to respond to all posts but it doesn't take long to provide some feedback or encouragement if you've bothered to look in in the first place. I try to work by that rule, if I look I comment, at least it acknowledges the effort someone has made.

Al

While your original question deals with reviews, ALL submissions require a certain amount of time spent by the contributor. I sent in some images (at the request of one of the staff members) which never showed up. I also expressed interest in sending in an M1064A3 walkaround. (which is actually on PrimePortal's want list) When I asked about the images I was told there were issues with the server at the time and that it would soon be rectified. Well, after three weeks I think, still nothing. I've already heard the same song and dance from PrimePortal with some Iraqi vehicle images. Flood or no flood, it's been a year. So I feel as if I'm wasting my time.
Now I'll just continue to do what I've been doing - I'll just add it as a bonus to anyone who purchases the M1117 CD.

A beginner's nursery area is a terrible idea. As Joe Rion says, everyone's opinion is useful.

I actually prefer the contribs of some of those who have lesser skills, who have an off the wall take, or who don't aim for particular "looks" that many aspire to; I also admire those who improvise things and make things out of nothing, even if it means that what is achieved isn't 100% accurate. For example, someone scratching a part out of a tin can is more impressive and certainly more interesting than someone buying the bit mail order and snipping it out of an etched fret - even if the bought part is more accurate. This is just me though.

I sometimes find some of the more "expert" pieces quite dull and can't read them - you know, "I built this bogie first while the second was dry and applied this much pressure with this digit for this many minutes while this particular glue set before moving on to the next in sequence." There's also this implication in some pieces that it was all executed perfectly with no errors or room for improvement. This can make some writers come across as rather superior (and possibly a little economical with the truth).

I hope that this isn't the "standard" that potential writers feel they must meet in order to be taken seriously or respected. Perhaps we could have a little more self-deprecation from some people, and this might make things less intimidating. Terribly British, I know.

Anyway, Scott Espin said it!! "This same topic has been brought up several times here before, and recently I might add." That's that then! This thread should go up in flames, now!!

18 Bravo I believe you may be talking about me, if you are the gallery issue was only sorted this week which meant I have started uploading a very large back log of features (about 2+ months worth of submissions). I told you the truth about the gallery and Jim S posted in the forums this week about the instability problems the site was suffering. They will go up as soon as I get to them unless you no longer wish me to do so. What was the item you sent in a year ago as I have no knowledge of it.

I don't think the thread needs to go "up in flames." I spend an awful lot of time editing reviews and getting them on line so I have a few points to make;

1. A couple of the most popular reviews lately have been of ancient Tammy kits.
This one is a good example, almost 2600 hits,
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/review/3959

So, review old kits. There are a lot of lurkers here who are just starting in the hobby and appreciate the reviews of older, cheaper, kits.

2. You don't have to be an expert in the Suchandframitz Auf F to review the kit. It may just be me but I want to know how much flash there is, how many ejector pin marks I have to fill and whether or not I have to be a rocket scientist to grasp the instructions.

3. The editors are easy to get along with. I will send email and ask you questions before I change the character of your review. We aren't ogres. Trust me.

4.


I cannot speak to whatever specific issues Robert Skipper (Bravo18) has reference a flood but I will post the change log from the latest review of one of his walk-around cd I worked on:

Updated by keenan on Wednesday 08th 2009f April 2009 11:17:49 PM

Updated by keenan on Thursday 09th 2009f April 2009 03:13:58 PM

Updated by keenan on Thursday 09th 2009f April 2009 04:44:51 PM

Updated by keenan on Thursday 09th 2009f April 2009 04:46:28 PM

Updated by keenan on Thursday 09th 2009f April 2009 05:07:51 PM

Updated by keenan on Monday 13th 2009f April 2009 11:21:46 AM

Updated by keenan on Monday 13th 2009f April 2009 01:50:03 PM

Updated by keenan on Monday 13th 2009f April 2009 04:39:11 PM

Updated by keenan on Monday 13th 2009f April 2009 04:40:00 PM

Updated by keenan on Monday 13th 2009f April 2009 04:42:05 PM

Updated by keenan on Monday 13th 2009f April 2009 04:47:38 PM

Updated by keenan on Monday 13th 2009f April 2009 05:32:13 PM

You know, I am just sayin...

5. If you have questions about submissions, please ask. No one hesitates to ask about what color of dunkleframsnarf was used in 1943, but no one asks what is needed for a submission.
The staff will answer questions.

I hope everyone takes this post in the nature it was intended.
Contribute what you can as time allows, even if it just posting something in the forums to help the new guys out.

Shaun

I think this number is correct and I have to say it is awesome. We have been getting a TON of kits from various sources for review. In fact as I sit here there are... (counting)... 26 items for review next to me awaiting shipment to reviewers. And these are all items we got in the past week and a half from 2 vendors.

My feeling is that, though this question has been posted before, it's really targeted more towards the users that are simply not participating in the forums or have never submitted reviews, articles in the past. Most of the people above have so you're really not who this is being directed at.

Cheers,
Jim

I think one of the reasons is people are concerned about getting shot down in flames. I suppose thats human nature but I have always found people extremely helpful on here and have no problems about posting or asking questions which ou know I do on a reasonably regular basis when I'm stuck...LOL.

The idea of a newbie corner is a bad idea as they will stick to their own little clique and not learn from people with more experience which is a bad thing as it will inhibit their skills.

On reviews I have to admit it's something I'd never really thought of. I tend to build more figures than AFV's as I err more towards dios and like to get interaction between figs to tell the tale rather than just build a tank etc (although I do as I've got the Bronco Comet and a Chevrolet 15cwt waiting to be sprayed though I've not decided what to do with them yet). I'd be more than happy to do figure reviews but I'm more of Al's ilk as I do predominantly Commonwealth subjects but I'd happily give it a shot.

There's nothing wrong with the site its just some people are slow in coming forward but thats the way some people are