hello!

this is my first post here, so let me say hello to everyone first!

i just finished modelling a 3d Tiger I E (late production) on my computer. Although i found lots of reference photos of the Tiger E there are still some parts which are unclear to me.

instead of posting pictures here, here are the links to the 3d model:

http://www.visualart.ro/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=51981
http://www.visualart.ro/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=51982
http://www.visualart.ro/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=51983

i would really appreciate it if you could help me out with this, i really need some comments from some people who know ww2 tanks. i want to paint it in the SPz. Abt.505 colours and markings for the eastern front.

to get to the point, i need to know if the tank is correctly modelled, if there are things/parts that should not be there, if there are parts that i forgot or if there are parts that i modelled incorrectly. i really want to make the model as realistic as possible so that is why i need some input on this tank before i start to paint it.

hopefully there will be someone around this forum who could help me out! any kind of critiques or comments are more than welcome!

till next time!

Firstly on behalf of everyone here Welcome to the site!
Youve found the friendliest and best modelling site on the net. So enjoy and if you need answers just shout out if you dont find them here then i doubt you will anywhere else.
Secondly great work on your tiger. I dont have the info your looking for but i'll try to find it for you.
cheers
(++) (++) (++)

That is really a GREAT looking Tiger...
Here is some info for you, In the spring of 1944 the sPzAbt 505 adopted the charging knight as it's unit symbol.. The tigers were painted mostly dark yellow with a red brown gun barrel. The knight was black and red with the tank number painted in black on the gun recuperator housing. (from Squadrons "Tiger in action" series)..

first of all, thanks for the replies!

hmmm...
now, from what a friend of mine told me, the gun barrel was metal grey, unpainted, not red brown... (Tiger Colors vol.3)
as for the unit markings i found some info on the internet, not really good, but still a little useful.
reference pictures are however scarce especially when it comes to the mg34 on the commander's cupola and the interior of the driver/radio operator doors... could anyone help me out with this?
also, would i be asking too much if i asked for some scanned pics of the 505th'Tigers?
anyway, glad you like the model, but i do have some questions:
for example, did the E type Tiger have the shovel on the front of the armour or not?
i did have some more questions, but i'll ask another time...
hope i didn't ask for too much too soon

later!

Here is a MG34 pic. here I will get you some more.

Hey there,
First off... THAT THING LOOKS AWESOME

Welcome to the site...
and here goes my 2 pesos-

1. Zimmerit - all steel wheel Tigers had zimmerit.. no exceptions that I know of.
2. Screens - all four engine deck "vents" were covered in a wire mesh screen
3. Muzzle break - the later, late models had a much smaller muzzle break - there was also a "locking tab" on the top side... with a single bolt.
4. Tracks - all late models would be equipped with the "Grouser" tracks for better traction. and not divided in three sections as shown in your model.

I got all of this from the Jentz and Doyle books... but I am sure that the internet has plenty of references...

By the way... don't get the wrong idea... I don't mean to be critical of your model... it is really awesome and shows some amazing work that you've done.

I'd be happy to answer ANY questions about the Tiger. I have tons of reference on the big Beasts and don't mind helping out.

Later,
Tim

MG34 http://www.brpguns.com/mg34.htm
The last one you should need, more info than anybody would want about the MG34is here
http://www.cruffler.com/historic-may00.html

thanx again, people!

those mg34 pics were quite useful, but not as detailed as i would have wanted them to be... still better than nothing

tankshack: thanx for the crits!
about the zimmerit, i know that, it's just that i did not add the zimmerit yet, in 3d addidng those kind of details is a different process and i haven't started painting and texturising the tank yet. i will get to it though, hopefully soon
about the wire mesh screens, were they above or below the "vent mesh" that i modelled?
and that smaller muzzle break and the locking pin... haven't found any reference pics of that... so i have no idea HOW much smaller it should be nor what that pin looks like
and about the tracks, i'm trusting you with this one. you are referring to the ones with those 6 small chevrons, right? well, if you say that the E type had those kind of tracks, i'll modify the tracks on my tank too :-)

extra questions: that shovel in the front, should it or should it not be there?
the track replacement cable on the left side of the hull, was that the way it was anchored there or was is like this

www.chez.com/arlechinu/cable-v1.jpg
(you might have to copy and paste the link in your browser's adress bar)

what was that small cylindrical shaped "thing" attached in the right side, in the rear, just naer the air intake vents?
and, tim, don't worry, that IS the reason i'm posting here, in order to get some critiques. as long as they are constructive, i actually appreciate the criticism

later

First: welcome to the site we hope to see more of you

Second, could you be honest and just admit that it is a plastic-model that you primed
I am still picking up my jaw from the floor, fantastic 3D modeling.

I am sorry that I cannot give a answer to your question, but your model got me wondering.

Directors like Spielberg and friends should knock on your door next time they want to make a WW2 movie, maybe then we will see some real ''authentic'' German tanks in the movies.
Considering the SGI technology I am puzzled that did not do that yet (ok it costs a lot, but the revenue they get in return is equally high.)

Question, do you do plastic models as-well?

hi there

roadkill, did u manage to pick up your jaw off the floor yet?
the thing is that, no matter how much it would cost to make a 3d tank for a movie, it would be less realistic... not the model itself, but the way it tinteracts with the enviroment. it would be less realistic seeing a 3d tiger going through a building or blowing up into pieces than a t-34 modified to look like a tiger... but, personally, i think spielberg had his reasons for choosing to do his films like he did... not that i agree with his choices, but still... well, you understand

and yeah, i used to do plastic models too
one bf-109 g and a tiger I H... but i thought of combinig my passion for plastic models with my passion for computer graphics... the result, well, apparently you like it

later!

twig...

wow! that is a WOW for the pic you posted! great job!

firt of all, the tiger is supposed to be a late production E type - time frame... summer-fall 1944

1.i'll have to add those ice cleats on the track
2.the shovel - will make the necessary modifications (i am not sure about those hinges or whatever they are, the things that attach the shovel to the front plate - any advice/pics/closeups?
3.the loader's hatch... i only had one closeup reference pic from a musem tiger... so i could really use some help with that too - anything at all, pics or whatever
4.i wasn't sure about the track repair toolbox either... i could easily remove it and replace it. but what should i put there instead? C clamp? what is that? (excuse my igonrance )
5.the exhausts are maybe a tad too close together, but the starter plate mechanism is there, it's just not visible because of the angle of the render
6.zimmerit... by the fall of 1944 the tank should have factory applied zimmerit, right? correct me if i'm wrong
7.please, some further advice on the track cable issue...
8.thanx!
9.also, i need some details of the front hull spare tracks - how were they fitted there...

about the books references... well, believe it or not, even though i live in a major city around here, there are NO books on tigers/modelling anywhere... none of the ones you referred to... online purchase would be however very expensive for me, so any kind of help with some scans would be greately appreciated!
if you like, simply answer me on my email [email protected] rather that post a reply here
(note: maximum email size my email server can handle is 1Mb)

all in all, thank you for a realy useful reply!
and also, any help whatsoever with regard to reference pictures/profiles/schematics etc would be grately appreciated... my email is always open just send me anything that you might think could help me out with the issues i mentioned above.

looking forward to hearing from you,
Bogdan

it's more than ok, it's perfect! :-)
big thanks in advance! can't wait...
in the meantime i just finished remodelling the tracks, repositioned the shovel, modelled the rear wire meshes and added the muzzle break locking pin...
tonight maybe i'll manage to do some more recent renders of the model and i'll post some here

seeya!

arlechinu
I uplinked a couple of pictures to http://www.pzpflak.com/ML/TE.html
Bill /Bill 13
#:-)

hello (again) bill

thanx for the photos, really useful stuff there... you said there were a couple of photos... well, there were more than a couple and they are great! thanx a lot, really!

later,
Bogdan

updates...
http://www.visualart.ro/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=52324
http://www.visualart.ro/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=52325

modified the tracks
repositioned the shovel
removed the rear track toolbox
modified the track cable on the hull...

still working on modelling the C clamp and the mg34

later!

Arlechinu

Few more uploaded to http://www.pzpflak.com/ML/TE1.html
Life time of page is again limited to a couple of days.
HTH
Bill

arlechinu,
First, very nice job on the Tiger, it really looks like a plastic model you have built and posted pics of. Second I have just a small amount of info on 505's Tiger Ie's, all of the pics I have of 505 Tigers they have the larger muzzle break so you are ok there. The small muzzle breaks were not used till late in the production run. The unit emblem of the charging knight was black and green, yellow, or red. I have read somewhere that the 3 platoons each used a different color. I have gone through my references but for the life of me can't find this info, sorry. Since the "knight" took up the space where the tactical numbers were usually painted, they were painted on the barrel sleeve in black, 3rd company painted a yellow section on the sleeve then the black numerals on top of that. As far as camo goes some books will tell you red-brown over dark yellow, others dark green over the dark yellow. All the pics are b/w so I think you have some latitude there. Most of the pics I have seen of the 505 Tigers they all have unditching logs tied to the sides of the hull. Lastly (I'll soon shut-up :-) ) the 505 was decimated during the Russian summer offensives of '44. In mid-July they returned to Germany, and in August were re-equipped with Tiger II's. (this info from "Tiger's in Combat I")

Mike

P.S. Here is a link to the Archer Transfers website with a pic of the Charging Knight unit emblem.
http://www.archertransfers.com/AR35135.html

here are a couple of new renders.
any suggestions?
did i get the dunkelgelb right or not?
haven't painted the dark brown stripes yet, wanted to hear your opinions first
any tips on how to weather the model? as in, where should there be some tears or scratches or stains, that sort of stuff...

http://www.visualart.ro/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=52551
http://www.visualart.ro/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=52552

PS: as always, a big thank you for the pics, Bill!
and another thank you goes to kelley i saw those unditching logs, but i'm not sure wether to model those too :-/

cheers!

hello again!

i was kind of hoping you could help me out with some further info/suggestions...
i just posted some new renders at these addresses below
http://www.visualart.ro/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=53842
http://www.visualart.ro/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=53847
http://www.visualart.ro/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=53987
i need some advice and comments on how the zimmerit looks like, if it's realistic or not, also with regard to the color of the paintjob... i understand that the 505 abt panzers used dunkelgelb as the primary color, however i'm not sure i got it right. could someone please advice? also i'm having trouble with the darkbrown stripes that i'll have to paint. more specifically, i know what they look like on the sides of the hull and the sides of the turret, but i have no idea how those stripes looked like on the top of the turret... i know, stupid question, but i can't figure it out how those stripes intersected or how they were painted there...
any help and comments would be more than helpful!

thanks,
Bogdan

The color looks good to me. The model in general is looking great!
I would make the vertical lines in the zimmerit a little more pronounced, and maybe the horizonal a bit less perfect....probably difficult to do but that's my suggestion.

I'm certainly no expert on this subject, but I believe there's acutally quite a bit of controversy over the exact shade that dunkelgelb was. Old existing paint chips may have faded/darkened/tint-shifted with time; old color film is notoriously unreliable. Just look at the difference between what Testor's Model Master line calls Dunkelgelb and what Taimya's dark yellow look like. I think anyone is going to have a hard time proving any reasonable interpretation wrong. Others may feel strongly that is isn't correct, though.

Personally, your color looks more brown than any dunklegelb I'm used to seeing. But, as I said, I really have no evidence to dispute your choice. Great job, BTW.

thanx for the advice...
as to the shade of yellow that i chose, well.. i actually tried to use the exact color that tamiya calls "dark yellow"
i also found some references to this dunkelgelb as being "olive green"
if it were up to me, i would lighten it a bit, but i wanted to see what you people think of it as it is... YOU are the experts, not me
any pointers?

cheers!

hello again!
well, the model is nearly 100% painted.
still have to paint the tracks. however, i do have one final question: which colors should i use for painting the tracks? the reference pics of the 505th tigers show the tracks painted in a very dark color, i was thinking it might be the dark brown used on the hull. could anyone please help me out with this? promise i won't bother anyone here ever again i rally have no clue whatsoever on how to paint the interior/exterior of the treads.

hope to hear from someone soon,
Bogdan

Hi, GREAT 3d modelling job.. You have a fine skill on the computer..:-)
As to your question, you will probably receive MANY opinions but mine is that the tracks were black (dark steel) with rust (red brown) in the crevices and recessed parts.. The actual leading edge footprint would be shiny steel. :-)
Keep up the GREAT work and I'd love a copy of it when you are done

thanx for the tips!

even now as i am writing this message i'm rendering the completed tank model, with the dark grey/rusty tracks. will let u know when i'll be pleased with the result and i'll upload some wallpaper sized renderings somewhere on the net for anyone who would be interested.

cheers!