_GOTOBOTTOM
Яusso-Soviэt Forum: Cold War Soviet Armor
For discussions related to cold war era Russo-Soviet armor.
Tamiya T-72 to Soviet T-72A
ppawlak1
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Joined: March 14, 2006
KitMaker: 1,973 posts
Armorama: 1,843 posts
Posted: Monday, August 24, 2009 - 05:19 PM UTC
Hi Guys !

I'm new to Soviet Armor, and want to convert the Tamiya kit to a Soviet era T-72A.

What do I need to do ?

Can I leave the Tamiya Hull as is and simply get something like a MiniArm T-72A Turret, or do I need more AM stuff ?

eg: Wheels, track, Hull mods, etc.

Help would be appreciated

I know that a T-72B buid requires a new Turret and also something like the Miniarm Hull conversion.

Cheers

Paul
ArmorBuilder
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: May 05, 2009
KitMaker: 67 posts
Armorama: 20 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 03:50 AM UTC
This might help http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/details/bla/detail_bla_35046.shtml
clay_cliff
Visit this Community
Lima, Peru
Joined: April 07, 2008
KitMaker: 375 posts
Armorama: 371 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 05:42 AM UTC
Totally agree, That turret is all you need for a Russian T-72A. If you want more detail, you can correct the first stowage box in the left fender, it has the hinges in the wrong side. You said you want something from the Soviet era, but if you want something modern, you can change the 8-spoked wheels with 6-spoked wheels (or make a mix of both types), as seen on Iraqi tanks. Good luck. Best regards.

José.
stephane
Visit this Community
Hauts-de-Seine, France
Joined: October 10, 2005
KitMaker: 432 posts
Armorama: 429 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 06:17 AM UTC
Hello
For a soviet T72A you need a more accurate turret if you like an "accurate model".
Blast and Miniarm have both great T72A turret.
The T72A used by soviets and now by Russian federation don't have the welded armour plate present on the Tamiya's front hull. So you'll have to remove it.


Stephane

clay_cliff
Visit this Community
Lima, Peru
Joined: April 07, 2008
KitMaker: 375 posts
Armorama: 371 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 07:28 AM UTC
If it is the case, you can use the SP Designs replacement front hull for Tamiya/Hobbycraft kits. It hasn't the applique armor plate. Best regards.

José.
Jacques
Visit this Community
Minnesota, United States
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 03:39 PM UTC
First, Soviets/Russians do have some T-72A WITH the front glacis welded plate. I am not sure of numbers, but they "inherited" 100+ on a arms deal that did not complete. They would be a rarer vehicle in Russian service, but legitamate. For that you would only need a T-72A turret. I would also recomend the Eduard PE set.

Second, for a more "common" T-72A you need a new turret and a new front glacis. However, the SP Designs front glacis is for a early T-72A, which is also not the MOST common version in Russian service. You would need the Minarm glacis for that. (SP Designs is working on a late T-72A front glacis piece, but I do not have a release date.)

ppawlak1
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Joined: March 14, 2006
KitMaker: 1,973 posts
Armorama: 1,843 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 09:34 PM UTC

Quoted Text

First, Soviets/Russians do have some T-72A WITH the front glacis welded plate. I am not sure of numbers, but they "inherited" 100+ on a arms deal that did not complete. They would be a rarer vehicle in Russian service, but legitamate. For that you would only need a T-72A turret. I would also recomend the Eduard PE set.

Second, for a more "common" T-72A you need a new turret and a new front glacis. However, the SP Designs front glacis is for a early T-72A, which is also not the MOST common version in Russian service. You would need the Minarm glacis for that. (SP Designs is working on a late T-72A front glacis piece, but I do not have a release date.)




Thanks Guys !

Thanks Jacques !

Great info.

I'm leaning toward the std kit Hull with the Miniarm Turret and perhaps AM tracks and PE.

Any more ideas or tips on a good T72A ?

Cheers

Paul
Elad
Visit this Community
Tel Aviv-Yafo, Israel
Joined: June 19, 2004
KitMaker: 458 posts
Armorama: 269 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 10:52 PM UTC
pardon my ignorance but what are the shortcomings of the stock turret in Tamiya's kit?
GeraldOwens
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 11:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text

pardon my ignorance but what are the shortcomings of the stock turret in Tamiya's kit?


For a stock vehicle rather than an update, the front armor on either side of the main gun is a bit too rounded. Viewed from above, it should flare out a bit. There are aftermarket solutions (today, everybody seems to want to buy a resin part for everything), but it's something almost any experienced builder could fix with a little epoxy putty, if he had a decent overhead photo or some good plans.
skyhawk
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: June 03, 2003
KitMaker: 1,095 posts
Armorama: 743 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 01:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

the SP Designs front glacis is for a early T-72A, which is also not the MOST common version in Russian service. You would need the Minarm glacis for that. (SP Designs is working on a late T-72A front glacis piece, but I do not have a release date.)




guess before i start on my T-72 (sometime in the distant future) ill have to do some research....this is worse than shermans! :-) Ive got the SP front glacis in the box, and had no idea it was "early" vs. "late"...plan on building a czech tank..so now the question is is the early one right...or the late...anybody have any pictures of the difference?
Jacques
Visit this Community
Minnesota, United States
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 04:03 PM UTC
The difference in "early vs. late" is the in the front glacis. The T-72A early had no extra armor on the front glacis as it used the T-72 hull. The T-72M1 had the welded on extra armor plate. The T-72A standard or "late" had the extra armor integrated, so you have to look around the drivors visor to tell the extra armor is there, and this hull is also used on the T-72B.

One note, the T-72M1 hull is NOT the same as the T-72A early refit, even though they have welded on front glacis armor.

Here is a really good primer on the T-72A.
ppawlak1
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Joined: March 14, 2006
KitMaker: 1,973 posts
Armorama: 1,843 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 06:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The difference in "early vs. late" is the in the front glacis. The T-72A early had no extra armor on the front glacis as it used the T-72 hull. The T-72M1 had the welded on extra armor plate. The T-72A standard or "late" had the extra armor integrated, so you have to look around the drivors visor to tell the extra armor is there, and this hull is also used on the T-72B.

One note, the T-72M1 hull is NOT the same as the T-72A early refit, even though they have welded on front glacis armor.

Here is a really good primer on the T-72A.



Great link !

Thanks very much - it is VERY informative

OK then Jacques, lets see if I have thie right....

so.....

T-72A early with Miniarm Turret can't use the Tamiya T-72M1 front hull without modification.

It would require a Miniarm T72B hull conversion, or an SP Design front Hull conversion (for a later T72A), OR some modification to the front hull (to remove the welded on M1 armor) to make it an early.

However the 100+ non standard "early's" that were integrated into the Soviet army after the export program 'failure' CAN use the Tamiya Hull without modification in conjunction with the Miniarm turret...

Is this correct ?

Cheers

Paul

Jacques
Visit this Community
Minnesota, United States
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 12:14 PM UTC
Your best bet in dealing with the Tamiya kit for a Soviet tank is:

1. Build it OOB and ignore the incorrect details. Not recomended but possible.

2. Buy a T-72A turret for it and add it to the hull and explain it as one of the T-72M1 tanks that were manufactured for export and ended up being absorbed by the Soviet Army, with some later upgrades to bring them up to the level of a T-72A turret on a T-72M1 hull.

3. Buy a T-72A turret and the SP Designs glacis for a early T-72A as used by the Soviet Army.

4. Make the corrections yourself with scratchbuilding for the T-72 you want.

5. Wait for a full release of the correct version you want.

That is the best advice I have at this point. I know that SP Designs will release at least one more glacis, but the timeline is unknown.
ppawlak1
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Joined: March 14, 2006
KitMaker: 1,973 posts
Armorama: 1,843 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 08:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Your best bet in dealing with the Tamiya kit for a Soviet tank is:

1. Build it OOB and ignore the incorrect details. Not recomended but possible.

2. Buy a T-72A turret for it and add it to the hull and explain it as one of the T-72M1 tanks that were manufactured for export and ended up being absorbed by the Soviet Army, with some later upgrades to bring them up to the level of a T-72A turret on a T-72M1 hull.

3. Buy a T-72A turret and the SP Designs glacis for a early T-72A as used by the Soviet Army.

4. Make the corrections yourself with scratchbuilding for the T-72 you want.

5. Wait for a full release of the correct version you want.

That is the best advice I have at this point. I know that SP Designs will release at least one more glacis, but the timeline is unknown.



That's great advice Jacques -much appreciated

I'm leaning towards option 3 now. I'll check out who does the SP stuff at a good price inc postage to Oz.

Thanks again,

Paul
Boggie
Visit this Community
Newfoundland, Canada
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 1,370 posts
Armorama: 1,331 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 01:08 AM UTC
Paul
How's it going? I am about be dealing with the same issues so I'm following this thread closely.
I got the Blast turret, now waiting to see if I can get a few things from SP. Jacques owns SP Designs by the way.
Regards
Bill
http://saammodels.tripod.com/companies/spdesigns/
Jacques
Visit this Community
Minnesota, United States
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 03:03 PM UTC
To be completely accurate, I RUN SAAMMODELS but Sergej Paksjutov of the Ukraine owns/produces the kits of SP Designs. I am just the free helper!

Another good source to get SP Designs kits from, so you can get other stuff, is Historica Books out of Colorado. Don't worry, a sale to him does not harm me or Sergej.

ppawlak1
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Joined: March 14, 2006
KitMaker: 1,973 posts
Armorama: 1,843 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 07:11 PM UTC
Hi Bill !

I need to finish my "What if ?" Aussie Leo, hopefully soon

Thanks for the tip Jacques, Andrew at Historica books is great I'll get that stuff through him.

Cheers

Paul
Boggie
Visit this Community
Newfoundland, Canada
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 1,370 posts
Armorama: 1,331 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 11:55 PM UTC
Jacques
Thanks for the response, I'll try Historica Books out of Colorado if you're going to be in the fields, nice time of year.
Edit,just placed my order with Historica, great selection, lets see how their service is.
Paul
I have a dozen unfinished projects that need the inspiration to get finished, too many interesting subjects too little time.
Regards
Bill
ppawlak1
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Joined: March 14, 2006
KitMaker: 1,973 posts
Armorama: 1,843 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 07:22 PM UTC
Ok, I have the bits and I've put the Tamiya lower hull together !

I'll be using the following:

Tamiya T-72M1
SP Designs T-72A / B front Hull conversion.
Miniarm T-72A Turret.

I have Miniarm tracks but I thing I'll save those for the next Minairm T-72 (B or BM ?), and use the kit vinyl tracks instead !

I've just finished a DDR T-72 - I'm about to post that t in the Cold War Campaign - I like the way the Tamiya kit goes together

I'm really looking forward to doing the Miniarm Turret !!

Any tips on this build will be greatly appreciated !!

Were there "early" T-72A's used in Chechnya in the early 90's ?

Cheers

Paul

Reiter960
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: June 24, 2007
KitMaker: 503 posts
Armorama: 500 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 09:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Ok, I have the bits and I've put the Tamiya lower hull together !

I'll be using the following:

Tamiya T-72M1
SP Designs T-72A / B front Hull conversion.
Miniarm T-72A Turret.

I have Miniarm tracks but I thing I'll save those for the next Minairm T-72 (B or BM ?), and use the kit vinyl tracks instead !

I've just finished a DDR T-72 - I'm about to post that t in the Cold War Campaign - I like the way the Tamiya kit goes together

I'm really looking forward to doing the Miniarm Turret !!

Any tips on this build will be greatly appreciated !!

Were there "early" T-72A's used in Chechnya in the early 90's ?

Cheers

Paul



1.Miniarm instructions are pretty sparse about wiring, use the illustrations in Tamiya's instructions (they got the drawings right but messed up the turret and front hull somehow)
Check the above link so that you model right glacis for the turret, it's basically what author calls mod.1983 but without anti-rad mats. I recomend you cut bolts on KMT attachment ports and use the AM ones with washer.
3. Yes, there is documented evidence of T-72A's used in 1994-96 debacle, there is a book in russian, ''Tanks in Grozny, A True Story'', it's full of high quality pics some of them showing T-72A's moving into the city.
I've got pretty much the same bits as you did, here is what it looks like now (sorry for sucky quality, had to use my phone this time):
Edit:
You will also need to find decent PKT barrel, tamiya bit is just a cylinder and miniarm set doesn't provide one. Also not that tamiya commander cupola comes with the anti-rad shielding around the forward looking periscopes and main ocular, don't remove it. You will need to punch 2 small holes in the each circle on top of the shileding though.

ppawlak1
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Joined: March 14, 2006
KitMaker: 1,973 posts
Armorama: 1,843 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 09:39 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Ok, I have the bits and I've put the Tamiya lower hull together !

I'll be using the following:

Tamiya T-72M1
SP Designs T-72A / B front Hull conversion.
Miniarm T-72A Turret.

I have Miniarm tracks but I thing I'll save those for the next Minairm T-72 (B or BM ?), and use the kit vinyl tracks instead !

I've just finished a DDR T-72 - I'm about to post that t in the Cold War Campaign - I like the way the Tamiya kit goes together

I'm really looking forward to doing the Miniarm Turret !!

Any tips on this build will be greatly appreciated !!

Were there "early" T-72A's used in Chechnya in the early 90's ?

Cheers

Paul



1.Miniarm instructions are pretty sparse about wiring, use the illustrations in Tamiya's instructions (they got the drawings right but messed up the turret and front hull somehow)
Check the above link so that you model right glacis for the turret, it's basically what author calls mod.1983 but without anti-rad mats. I recomend you cut bolts on KMT attachment ports and use the AM ones with washer.
3. Yes, there is documented evidence of T-72A's used in 1994-96 debacle, there is a book in russian, ''Tanks in Grozny, A True Story'', it's full of high quality pics some of them showing T-72A's moving into the city.
I've got pretty much the same bits as you did, here is what it looks like now (sorry for sucky quality, had to use my phone this time):




Hey there George !

Thanks for the tips - yes my machine will be like your pic The picture looks fine !

Thanks very much !

How did you find fitting the SP Designs front hull went ?

The primer in the link above is brilliant. I've used it quite a bit when looking at pics etc

The SP designs hull matches the early and late standard T-72A in the pics below. Don't you agree ?







PS: After this I'll start the SP Designs T-64B Conversion with the Skif kit, Masterclub tracks and the Miniarm Turret (less anti radiation cladding).

I got the T-64B hull and conversion from SAAM Models :-) Thanks Jacques !

Cheers

Paul
ppawlak1
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Joined: March 14, 2006
KitMaker: 1,973 posts
Armorama: 1,843 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 09:45 PM UTC
Oh I forgot to say in my post above George that I can't find ''Tanks in Grozny, A True Story'' using google.

Where did you get your copy from ?

A copy of that book will come in handy in my upcoming projects !

Cheers

Payk
Reiter960
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: June 24, 2007
KitMaker: 503 posts
Armorama: 500 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 10:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Hey there George !

Thanks for the tips - yes my machine will be like your pic The picture looks fine !

Thanks very much !

How did you find fitting the SP Designs front hull went ?

The primer in the link above is brilliant. I've used it quite a bit when looking at pics etc

The SP designs hull matches the early and late standard T-72A in the pics below. Don't you agree ?

PS: After this I'll start the SP Designs T-64B Conversion with the Skif kit, Masterclub tracks and the Miniarm Turret (less anti radiation cladding).

I got the T-64B hull and conversion from SAAM Models :-) Thanks Jacques !

Cheers

Paul


Fits very well, just make sure to cut plastic part away without breaking the rest of top plate:-)
As far as soviet used tank is your target, SP designs piece will do just fine.
I can't coment on their T-64B hull, never had a chance to look at it. Iimproving the skif kit for almost two years had me completely lose the interest in the subject. Let's see how Trumpy's kit will turn out (completely neutral phrase, don't want to start any rants...)
The book, actually two softbound volumes, were published by Frontline Illustration in spring 2008, I had a pirated pdf for a while but then my basement pc crashed and all was lost, true story. Your options are to either search some of East European e-stores or look for pdf files, as I doubt that it was ever exported outside of CIS.
ppawlak1
Visit this Community
Victoria, Australia
Joined: March 14, 2006
KitMaker: 1,973 posts
Armorama: 1,843 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 10:20 PM UTC
Thanks George, I'll post pics when I've put the SP Designs hull on the Tamiya lower !

I have a few books on the Chechnyan conflicts on the way... including some with lots of photos. However the book you mentioned isn't one of them.

Yes the Trumpeter T-64 kits will be interesting to say the least - lets home they're correct I bet they' come out just after I purchase more Miniarm updates.......

Please post more pics of your T-72 as you continue your build !

Cheers

Paul
Reiter960
Visit this Community
California, United States
Joined: June 24, 2007
KitMaker: 503 posts
Armorama: 500 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 26, 2009 - 10:57 PM UTC
Here you can see what the covers look like
http://botter.livejournal.com/133244.html
looks like I didn't recall title right, here is how it reads in Russian:
" Танки в боях за Грозный ''










 _GOTOTOP