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Constructive Feedback
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Constructive Criticism Forum...
210cav
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Posted: Friday, July 18, 2003 - 04:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi all,

In answer to the concerns that people have voiced over "interfering" with the RRB, let me say I think this debate has breathed new life into the forum.

I can already see a change in the style of replies (my own included), with folks feeling more able to point out defects and suggesting improvements without hating ourselves for it.

It can only be a good thing if we all feel confident in giving helpful and considered advice to each other.

All the best

Rowan



Rowan--very nice. My compliments. Jim initiated this topic and I assume never dreamed it would receive probably the largest response in the history of RR.
DJ
Holdfast
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IPMS-UK KITMAKER BRANCH
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Posted: Friday, July 18, 2003 - 08:04 AM UTC
:-) Rowan, I have to agree. You have hit the nail on the head, from my perspective anyway. I must admit I avoided saying anything rather than feel I was criticising. This was partly due, I believe, to the warm spirit that exists here and not wanting to appear as if I was posing as an expert. Which I am not.
I was jabbed by one of the remarks, here, that a true friend would point out mistakes, or ways to improve ( which is the spirit of this board). As I consider everyone here a friend, and believe this remark to be true, from here on in, comments plus constructive criticism comming your way (I hope).
Another point. I also believe that, because of the friendlyness and spirit within Armorama, we are in a unique position to build up a great forum of techniques and learning, for all. As apposed to a battle ground as seen on some sites (I think this has also already been mentioned, but it is true) :-)
I think I will have to add a disclaimer to my sig line Just for the record when I post On the RRB I am happy to recieve CC (constructive criticism). I like discussing techniques and ideas :-)
Mal
airwarrior
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Posted: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 - 06:11 AM UTC
I agree with most people here,I love seeing comments,of any state on my models in the RRB.However,Now that Jim says we have to post CC on the models,I've been seeing less and less comments on peoples models,LIke 90 views,and 2 posts.its starting to become just a showcase anyway,since usually everybody just looks ,and Nobody responds.


Also,I always thought,until now,that the RRB was a way to show people what you've been doing for the last few weeks .I always Love to see what people have to say about my model/s,wether it be CC or not.


just my two cents
GunTruck
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Posted: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 - 06:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I agree with most people here,I love seeing comments,of any state on my models in the RRB.However,Now that Jim says we have to post CC on the models,I've been seeing less and less comments on peoples models,LIke 90 views,and 2 posts.its starting to become just a showcase anyway,since usually everybody just looks ,and Nobody responds.


Also,I always thought,until now,that the RRB was a way to show people what you've been doing for the last few weeks .I always Love to see what people have to say about my model/s,wether it be CC or not.


just my two cents



I've noticed that too airwarrior - and I think it will get better in time and more constructive comments will come along.

Gunnie
Teacher
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Posted: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 - 07:19 AM UTC
I agree with all of the above. Speaking from a personal point of view (but I think most people feel the same) I love to see comments on the pics I post. It's helpful if they are constructive comments.......I have been modeling a year or so now since my hiatus, and this is my ONLY point of contact with fellow modelers. There aren't any clubs where I live, and so the only people who are going to see the models I make are here. Sure my wife sees them, she even pretends to be interested if I don't ask her to look too often, so I really value the comments made by fellow modelers.
I value ALL comments though. I'm sure we would all appreciate it if the people who view the pics in the forum would at least say SOMETHING!?

Vinnie
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Posted: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 - 07:53 AM UTC
:-) I'm the same Vinnie, Armorama is my modelling club and, like Dave, thought that the RRB was for showing in progress and latest completed models, as well as looking for constructive criticism. When I first posted on here I was astonished at the responce, so I kept coming back. I also had an agenda, to try and lift the profile of aircraft modelling here on Armorama. The RRB became a means to that end, well kinda anyway. If I were only to post pics on the aircraft board only (mostly) aircraft modellers would see them. Posting on here did raise a bit of interest from a couple of treadheads ( I think they may have seen the error of their ways though ) Now things seem to have gone back to, virtually, just armour. My next 2 models will be sent in as features and or for the gallery, (coming soon).
Mal
DutchBird
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Posted: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 - 07:54 AM UTC
I like to browse around in this forum, just to see what is being built. Most of the work is really inspiring, and in some respects makes me almost fear for the moment I will post my first pics on this board.

Because, as I see it, I am quite far behind quite a lot in my modelling skills. Add to that that for the time being I still have to paint by brush, as I have had a few changes in life, which cost me the money for the airbrush So now I hope to buy one next January/February.

I know from myself that I can be pretty good at seeing what is wrong, but in the meantime quite often do not (yet) have the skills to do it right myself. Add to that the fact that I can be pretty blunt in my comments, and quite often say/write things, and then when thinking it over later I sometimes regret what I wrote. I can be quite impulsive in what I do.
Also, and that is personal, I also feel that when one gives loads of comments one should offer something to be commented at some point. In general, as I am quite new to this part of the hobby (especially the intensity (as in books, PE, conversions etc), I feel I have to take care not to come oover as a know-it-all.
And one can see the differences in skill, but one can often see the effort put into the kit. IMHO every single person seriously committed to this hobby puts something of himself into a model, and who am I to put that effort down.

In general, I think that because one deals with a board here with people from all over the world, and different personalities, it is realy easy to hurt/insult eachother, though ususally unintended. Add to that that many are not native English speakers, and that even one language still has it's differences (say Ozzie/Kiwi-English, UK English, Canadian English, US West-coast English and US East-coast English) can only add to the confusion. I know that when I was in the US for a while, this led to a number of awkward (sp ?) situations, some funny, some painfull and some really embarrassing. And on a board like this, when it is just the written word, the chance of this happening only increases.

Just my € 0.02, and hopefully they make some sence...

Harm

GunTruck
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Posted: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 - 08:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I know from myself that I can be pretty good at seeing what is wrong, but in the meantime quite often do not (yet) have the skills to do it right myself. Add to that the fact that I can be pretty blunt in my comments, and quite often say/write things, and then when thinking it over later I sometimes regret what I wrote. I can be quite impulsive in what I do.



This was one of the most honest statements I've read here. Virtually everyone is an "armchair expert" and wants to share critical commentary on what they feel can be improved - but - defining what is "wrong" is truly in the eye of the beholder. Just offer your comments freely and I think they'll be received freely. Also, consider the source. Not everyone is on the same modeling skill level. Contrary to another modeler's post here - there are some Masters of the craft who do frequent these pages.

However, not everyone 'judges' everything they see when it comes to modeling. Observing is for fun too, just because they don't offer a comment doesn't imply a person isn't interested. Personally, many have PM'ed me directly - and I respond thusly. And, to be honest, I don't see a whole lot of substance supporting the flowery comments that get tossed out there in general. It can cause one to be uncomfortable to post something to the contrary - so some refrain from posting at all. But, this too will decrease as time goes on.


Quoted Text

Also, and that is personal, I also feel that when one gives loads of comments one should offer something to be commented at some point. In general, as I am quite new to this part of the hobby (especially the intensity (as in books, PE, conversions etc), I feel I have to take care not to come oover as a know-it-all.



I think that might contribute a little too. I like to see the work of those who comment too, but not everyone has ready access to a digital camera setup or photohosting capability. Don't really know how to help those modelers out...


Quoted Text

And one can see the differences in skill, but one can often see the effort put into the kit. IMHO every single person seriously committed to this hobby puts something of himself into a model, and who am I to put that effort down.



I think a sincere comment, even if made in ignorance of skills, technique, or technical knowledge on a subject isn't a "put-down". I think when one comes off as a "know-it-all" - then the comments are read that way. Some people don't want to be tagged in such a negative manner - so they reserve their comments.


Quoted Text

In general, I think that because one deals with a board here with people from all over the world, and different personalities, it is realy easy to hurt/insult eachother, though ususally unintended. Add to that that many are not native English speakers, and that even one language still has it's differences (say US West-coast English [snip the rest]) can only add to the confusion. I know that when I was in the US for a while, this led to a number of awkward (sp ?) situations, some funny, some painfull and some really embarrassing. And on a board like this, when it is just the written word, the chance of this happening only increases.



Dude! Where's my car?!?

Seriously, point is well made. I think the RRB is an important Forum on our Site, and a gauge for serious modelers out there looking in to what Armorama has to offer. We've got a diverse, international, and thriving modeling community who participate here daily, but the best is not always seen. Political Correctness is not always helpful for aiding other modelers in critique and improvement efforts - and everyone in this thread has pointed it out. The only way to change it is to stop talking about it - and do it!

Gunnie
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Posted: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 - 03:07 PM UTC

Quoted Text

:-) I'm the same Vinnie, Armorama is my modelling club and, like Dave, thought that the RRB was for showing in progress and latest completed models, as well as looking for constructive criticism. When I first posted on here I was astonished at the responce, so I kept coming back. I also had an agenda, to try and lift the profile of aircraft modelling here on Armorama. The RRB became a means to that end, well kinda anyway. If I were only to post pics on the aircraft board only (mostly) aircraft modellers would see them. Posting on here did raise a bit of interest from a couple of treadheads ( I think they may have seen the error of their ways though ) Now things seem to have gone back to, virtually, just armour. My next 2 models will be sent in as features and or for the gallery, (coming soon).
Mal



LOL, bloody cunning agenda, I been doing more planes than I do armors in the last 3 months! and I should be an exclusive German Armor Modeler!

Da Truth and Da Agenda is Outta There
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