Right ones missing because it got knocked off. I can't find it so I'll leave it.

Hi Mick, this is getting to be something that is taking a lot of time. I will try and answer what I can here. The very Diabolical. I have seen a photo of the bracket on the crew commanders side but was not aware that the one on the operators side was also protected. You are correct that its the only one with this mod, that I know of. Re 169080. It was rebuilt with a NZ hull and is now on display at the old 4 base workshops at Bandiana.without any ARN painted on it. The reason. The old hull went to Puckapunyal Tank Museum as you say a bare hull, believed to be 169017. The tracks and so forth and turret and gun were sourced from stock. This tank now carries the ARN 169080 as it was discovered as the origina, lso the one at Bandiana, a rebuild could not have the same ARN and so has none. I will add these two tanks to my album. Now back to the ammo rack. I imagine your source was Shane Lovells book, which does mention this setup but does not show any proof either by photo or documentation. I have contacted a lot of friends from !st Armoured Regiment, and RAACA, also many Vietnam Vets from the 1968-1969 era, and none can remember this rack without the radio. I will attach a reply from Bruce Cameron who is at present writing a book on the Armour in Vietnam which he has been researching over many years. Bruce has a vast knowledge serving two terms in Vietnam and has access to AWM people, just about all armoured Corps Veterans and has worked closely with Mike Cecil. He said in his email:

Hi Col,

Gerry McCormack, one of the original troop leaders, recalls:

"Re the 25 set, I can remember it rolling around the top of the turret...we then had a jury rig of a bracket for it alone; then came the liner and 25 Set frame all built as one."

This seems to confirm, albeit anecdotally, what the C Sqn TechO told me some time ago, ie. the primary driver for the bracket was the need to secure the radio and the opportunity was taken to stow .30cal as well.

Bruce

I hope this is some help but from this email it appears the rack was made for the radio as the main component and the ammo liners were added. Regards Col

Interesting reading guys.

Just for interest some 1968-1969 photos:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aodcurator/4133540698/sizes/o/in/set-72157622748795855/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aodcurator/4132789363/sizes/o/in/set-72157622748795855/

Source

With all the 30 cal liners in place it is impossible to say the radio slot is not there, only that it doesn't look like it is*. I'd say for a model it really doesn't matter, just fill it with ammo.

*At least when fitted to a 1968 Dozer tank.

Great shots, and there is no evidence of a radio in either rack. That overall shot in interiesting in that the spent cases are stowed on the deck ... I would imagine they would have made lethal explosive cases if the VC got a hold of them. The dozer (callsign 92) appears to have be hooked up to an ARV with the turret facing rearwards.

Anyone got an shots of Dozers in Vietnam?

Jaymes

You can't see the blade, but from its call sign it's a dozer tank:

Hi Mick, there are a few shots of dozer tanks on my site. There were four Dozers,169071, 169078, 169079, 169106. All are still around, one at Ballarat, one at the Puckapunyal tank Museum, one at the Sgt's Mess Armour School and one owned by Tim Vibert who purchased the 105 Centurions from the Defence Force. Re the photo, the reason you cannot see the blade is that its not fitted. Due to Blade Hdy. troubles in the early days, the blade was removed and they were used as Gun Tanks. 169106 had a hull replacement and was returned to Australia where it was rebuilt and then returned to Vietnam. It also took an RPG hit on the left of the turret above the pistol port and the repair can be seen today, I have heaps of photos of them including the purchase and rebuild of 169071, Regards Col

Col thanks I've found the shots of a Dozer on your site. It helps alot I cannot wait to get cracking on it now. the 30 cal rack is an issue again though as the Dozer shows the late one with the radio mount. I'd like to know the running number and markings though for the Dozer as Its a bit baffling.

Jaymes.

Hi Mate, The ammo rack is indeed a worry, those two photos do not show a radio, but one is on a tank being towed back after a mine incident and the radio could be anywhere much the same with the other photo, short of a plan drawing or a really clear photo I doubt anyone will be able to state they are 100% correct. My thoughts are, its your model and if you are happy,
do what you want .
Re the dozers, three are stationary and will more than likely stay that way. 169071 is being stripped completely down and rebuilt, I have a heap of photos on it , most not on my site as I have to cull the number I put up, and there will be a lot more to come, I will be seeing the owners again in about a fortnight.
Do not understand the "RUNNING NUMBERS" and making a guess its the Crew Commanders Call sign. The only way to ID an army unit is the ARN, 169XXX in the case of a Centurion as it stays with the tank even when its rebuilt with a new hull.Where as the Call Sign stays with the Crew Commander and if he has to change tanks he just grabs the plate and fixes it to the new tank. There is a case I know of where the commander of a troop had three tanks in one day, and as far as the crew are concerned they were in the one tank, C/S XXX. Try working out damage to a particular tank in that situation. Example: The troop leader C/S C2 radio died and he swapped with C2A and then hit a mine, and swapped with C2B, returning to C2 a couple of days later.. I know what you mean but if 169XXX was Call sign 92A and that tank reached its milage and was returned to Australia and another tank was given to the crew, say 160ZZZ, it would still have the same C/S 92A, so using the call sign number can give you misleading data, you would need the date as well, where as the ARN will not cause this trouble. Same story with Barrel names, some tanks had 3 or 4 names over different periods of time, again you would need a date, say Buka Boom Boom 11 -- 1969 to relate to a specific time, Regards the markings and TAC numbers you will have to decide if you are doing an early model maybe with sideplates, Early 1968, or a later model, Regards Col

Hi Mick and Jayme, Today I went to NSW to watch a Leopard geing unloaded to the Malwala Service club. While there I met up with a Vietnam Veteran who I know has a great knowledge and memory of Vietnam and he was there when the ammo rack was installed. He agrees with you that the first few did not have provision for the radio! So now I have two expert Veterans who both served at that time, with completely different stories. Many stories by veterans are clouded, not through intention but with time the old memory does play tricks. But I know that both these guys do not have any clouded minds. But the chap today does add weight to your claim, so I am not repared to dismiss it. But we are still in the same position, yes it was, no it was not. Myself after all this I would suggest that you use which ever one you want. Early model without radio and later model with radio. I now doubt that without photos that show it clearly we will never really be sure. The guy today said he felt he would have photos of the rack without the radio, if so I will put it straight up, regards Col

Bear in mind that it is also possible that the early Aussie Vietnam Cents may have only had provision for radios in the racks of Squadron and Troop Commander's vehicles ...

Normally they would have been the first to have them, but most of the mods were done when the tanks were sent in for major service or repair, and so it could have been whichever tanks were in, not necessary that any order was used.