Links to my other N.IRELAND Build Blogs for those interested in the subject;

Saxon
http://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/152358&page=1

Landrover VPK (Piglet)
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/211724&page=1





HI everyone

I'm starting my second Build Log in relation to Police and Military vehicles used during "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland.

Following on from my Saxon APC build (which I'm waiting to finish at time of writing but delayed by items in the post), this time I'll be building the infamous Humber FV1611 APC or as it is better known the Humber Pig!

The rapidly deteriorating situation in Northern Ireland during the late 1960's required a vehicle that could carry troops and police safely through areas where they could be exposed to hostile crowds throwing missiles or terrorist attack. The Pig was the ideal vehicle for the security role: It was small and manoeuvrable, therefore not so politically embarrassing. Had larger or tracked vehicles (like the FV 432) the British Government would have been accused of ‘sending in the tanks’.

Some 500 ‘pigs’ were brought back into service, some being bought back from abroad. Throughout their new career, the pigs have been modified to meet the new challenges that faced them. Faced with the Terrorist used of steel core AP bullets, the Pigs were modified with extra armour. A tail-board was added to stop bullets striking the feet of troops disembarking or sheltering behind the vehicle. Bull bars were added to the front, to push through barricades. The side stowage boxes were usually removed to prevent incendiaries and devices being placed inside. The versatile Pig proved relatively easy to adapt to its new role.

Numerous modifications were made to the basic Pig. There were ambulance and EOD (Explosive Ordinance Demolition) versions. The riot controlled version, the ‘Flying Pig’ has large mesh screens that fold out from the sides of the vehicle from just behind the front doors. The screens open forward to form a makeshift wall. Another version the ‘Kremlin Pig’ was covered with wire mesh as protection from RPG 7 rounds. One with a Perspex screen mounted on top for an observer was called the ‘Holy Pig’, due to the screen’s similarity to a pulpit. Along the border with Southern Ireland (Bandit Country), Pigs were modified with roof-mounted turrets from Shorland armoured cars. Others were modified with rear water tanks fitted in the passenger compartment for a water cannon. (sloppy Jalopy website)

The Humber Pig was not retired from service in N.Ireland until the late 1990's by the Saxon Patrol

I'm going to build a "Flying" Pig from the mid 1980's onwards (see photos below). I'll use the Accurate Armour Humber Pig Kit as a base but as its the standard armoured version I'll have to convert it somwhat to modify it into a Flying Pig in Northern Ireland.





I started today by putting a new flooring into the Pig and detailing the the drivers pedals with the same lentel PE sheet as the rear. I scratch built new benches for the rear and gave the rear compartment a new ceiling. I've also added seat belts to the rear compartment using masking tape and some sapre PE I had in my stash.
Here's my photos so far;







Any comment welcome, good or bad! (no political rants please)

I'll post more tommorow guys

Blimey you're not hanging about Roy!
Good start. At least you shouldn't have to add too many extra details to the interior, it was pretty basic.

Thanks David! ..I'll be assembling the underside of the Pig today, I hope to post again this evening

Roy.

You sure are living the modeling dream right now. Man, I can't imagine tackling both the PIG and the Saxon in one decade, let alone one month. I definitely look forward to further updates. Cheers.

Interesting stuff,

Are those M-16 rifles in the first image?

Thanks Pat, I'd a few days off this week and I've a patient misus which helps alot

BTW the Archer stuff I was waiting on arrived this morning, fast & great service as usual from them in the States! I'm hoping to finish the Saxon tomorow, take good flicks sunday and all going well post them Sunday night so stay tuned..

Hi Marc, I touched on this in my Saxon Thread. The rifles in the second photo are indeed M-16's. My guess is the reason they were issued to some BA units in N.Ireland was due to the smaller caliber of the M-16, 5.56mm over the SLR 7.76mm, also the SA-80 wasn't issued yet. This plus the fact the M-16 was less cumbersome for mounted units than the Heavier and larger SLR. The option of Automatic fire was an added bonus for BA troops who came into a serious contact with enemy gunmen, as I believe the SLR was only single action ..however if anyone knows anything different I'd really love to hear

Small typo correction - I am sure you meant to say the SLR was 7.62mm NATO. As far as I know the SLR was selective fire just like the M16; certainly the basic FN design was.

The last time I saw a 'pig' I was naively walking down the street in Belfast (about 25 years ago give or take...) and all the troops around were pointing those SLRs at me for some reason.... The kids in the neighborhood would throw firecrackers at them, which seems about halfway between ballsy and insane.

Re:M-16,(nice build i will be watching closely) ,some Recce platoons were issued with this weapon when operating in the border area, along with Marine units in the early eighties which i believe was a weapon of choice for the marines.

re: SLR , unfortunatley the weapon was only semi-automatic not selective fire(we wished),a good weapon as it was a sure stopper if needed and has better range than the current Sa80A2,however with the introduction of the larger caliper Sharpshooter rifle big hitters are making a return.

Thanks Danny, my typo error, your right 7.62mm (NATO), I wrote 7.76 for some insane reason!

OK I did my homework on this subject of the SLR and M16 in British Army service so here goes;

The Fusil Automatique Léger (Light Automatic Rifle) or FAL is a self-loading, selective fire rifle produced by the Belgian armaments manufacturer Fabrique Nationale de Herstal (FN).
The United Kingdom developed its own variant of the FN FAL, designating it the L1A1 Self Loading Rifle (SLR).
The British SLR included several changes from the original Belgian FN FAL. The most prominent change from the original FAL, was that the L1A1 operated in the semi-automatic mode only.
The SLR was produced so the fire selector featured two settings, being safety and semi-automatic, rather than the original Belgian FN which featured automatic fire. The magazine from the 7.62 mm L4 light machine gun was able to fit the L1A1 SLR.
The L1A1 SLR was replaced in 1987 by the introduction of the bullpup L85A1, firing the 5.56 mm cartridge. Between 1987 and 1991.

Apparantly during the latter part of "the troubles" a need for a lighter assault rifle than the SLR with automatic fire capability was identified. The American-made M16A1 was soon adopted. It's 5.56x45mm round has neither the range or stopping power of the 7.62x51mm rounds fired by the SLR, but many more rounds could be carried by one trooper.

Almost as soon as the American Armalite AR-15 was marketed the British Army purchased a number for evaluation. Shortly after a batch of about 10,000 AR15 and M16 rifles were purchased. This order was placed before the US Army adopted the M16 as there standard rifle. Both the AR15 and M16 are of the original design which did not feature the bolt forward assist that was a feature of the latter M16A1. The rifle was never accepted for front-line service but it has been used extensively in Belize, the far east and Northern Ireland. The weapon is favored by the Royal Marines due to its lightness and was issued to specialist units. The British army also adopted the M203 grenade launcher which fits to the rifle in place of the fore grips.

The m16 Rifle was first adopted by British Special Forces during the Falklands campaign. Deactivated ex-Argentinean FALs from the many thousands captured during the Falklands War are used by UK forces as part of the soldier's load on some training courses run over public land in the UK (Wiki).

(And for my Irish Brethern here) The Irish Defence Forces used it as the main rifle from the 1960s until 1988 where it was replaced by the Steyr AUG for use by Permanent Defence Forces, however it was not until 2000/2001 that the FN FAL was retired by the Reserve Forces. It is currently in storage for use as an emergency national reserve.

..phew, hope this answers some questions, please feel free to correct me or add more

Have had guns pointed at me several times in Derry and Belfast as well. I believe they were useing the sights to see further away/scout ... thats what I always told myself anyway ... but it does have an uncanny way of making it look like its aiming straight at you.

The SLR looks slightly different to the FN- at least as used by the Irish Army. The Flash suppressor on the SLR is a different shape making the barrel look slightly longer. The Irish FN was also fitted with sights for the Energa Rifle grenade.

I remember seeing M16s carried by British troops on their side of the Monaghan Armagh border in 1982. Don't remember what unit.




I don't think the number of rounds carried would have been a consideration. Lines of supply were never over extended and there was never any fear of British units being cut off or surrounded.
I remember reading that the Argentinians fitted a 30 round magazine to their FNs which wre e a popular souvenir from the Falklands as the Standard SLR/FN magazine held only 20 rounds.

Italeri, Mousehouse Designs and and Firestorm all make FNs,

The M 16 was never standard issue in NI, and was used mainly in the border areas and by specialist surveillance units. It wasn't too popular in the cities as at night the profile could be mistaken for a terrorist gunman. I would say that the squaddies in the picture are from an Infantry Bn Recce pl and as part of the Province reserve have been called in for riot duty.

Rifles aside I got some work done on the pig today, I took some photos and was just about to wrap things up for the day when I discovered something in a photo of a flying pig that I had missed, the entire middle section has protruding armour wrapped around it for use with the wings when they are deployed.

I decided to study the layout of the This Pig in more detail and see what additional work I would need to bring the AA Pig up to a mid 80's Flying Pig.

Just as I thought I was moving along quite well and really only had the construction of the wings to worry about I then discovered that the entire rear section of the Humber Pig would need reworking, including different wheels wells, struts/covers and new rear doors among the main things. The AA Humber Pig would be a perfect canditate for an early Pig in Northern Ireland but it seems later pigs were modified, especially those being used as Flying Pigs. Heres a photo of the major alterations that need to be made to the upper hull



Here is where I am now. After this photo was taken I removed the rear wheel wells pointed out by the red arrows. The blue area highlighted is the approx area I'll need to extend the protruding armour I'm talking about.



I have some work ahead of me over the next few days but I'm enjoying the build so what the heck

Hey Roy.

What references are you using? The reason I ask is that it is possible that I have some stuff you don't and can pass it along to you.

Plus, you might have stuff I don't, which I'd like to find out about...

Basically I'm using 4 or 5 main photos for the flying wing Design and I have about 15 to 20 good photos of the more modern Pig Hull ..I would love to see anything you have Pat, I'm sure you'll have some good stuff that I'm missing!

I'll try post my reference material over the next day or two!

Okay, I'll try to send you some stuff in the next few days, although I can't promise anything too quickly. I'm off with the family for a few days this weekend....

Great news Pat, No rush though mate, I might not get near my Pig for a few days with work commitments this week anyway! ..I'll be making up for it next week though!

Have a safe and enjoyable trip and we'll chat when your back!

Just for completeness sake, the Canadian FN C1s were also selective fire. This was the standard squaddie weapon. As a fire support weapon we had the FN C2, which was the full auto version. The guys humping these would have several of the 30 round mags and the C2 was fitted with a heavier barrel & a bipod. Rather like a modern BAR set up and just about as useful (i.e. NOT).

Anyone I ever knew in the army hated that pig. It had a MMG's appetite for ammo and was called upon to serve as the SAW, but the 30 round mags & underneath feed port meant that you really couldn't lay down enough fire to do the job, yet the bugger weighed a ton & was hard for one guy to hump around along with the ammo he was supposed to carry. There was a No 2 assigned in the TOE, but most units in the 70s & 80s never actually had that guy in the squad so the gunner had to hump it all. Spare ammo came from the 20 round mags caried by the normal squaddies who, one would imagine, felt they had more use for it than the C2 gunner.

When the switch came to 5.56 as the standard Cdn round in the mid 80's, no one was happier than the C2 gunners as they got the Minimi's, belt feed plus a guaranteed No 2 to hump the ammo.

Paul

Roy.

I sent you an e-mail this morning. Keep an eye out for it.

Got the email when I got in from work Pat, cheers bud!!

Great photos! ..Jeez, if you have anymore of the solid panel wings it would be brilliant! I'll get my stuff over to you by Friday, spare time is a comodity this week sorry!

HI Roy,
another great wagon,

the armored wings will look very intresting once completed

is there any Mowags on the market ?


great work keep it coming


shane

Just a note on the L4 30 round magazines. Although these would physically fit the SLR, they would not generally feed reliably as the springs in them normally operated with the assistance of gravity on the L4A1 LMG (which is a 7.62 Bren gun), while on the SLR they had to feed upwards and the spring did not provide enough oomph. The correct 30 round magazine was the L2A1 magazine designed for the job, but these were hard to come by. Many L4 LMG magazines had beefed up springs to allow reliable feeding in the SLR.

Well guys I've been studying the layout of the flying pig for a few days now and I'm happy enough that I've figured out the modernized layout of the latter Pigs In Northern Ireland.

The Mk.II's were given additional armour in some areas in the late 1970's early 1980's which the AA kit isnt designed on.

So to covert the kit into the armoured Mk.II version of the Flying Pig I've decided to work on a section at a time.
I started today with the back end. I designed the new doors and added armour to the upper area. I also scratched the "upward opening" Section of the rear doors with a vision block centred in the middle.





I've a few little bits of detail to continue with on this section so I'll try post again tommorow

Shane sorry for getting back so late replying, to answer your question about the Mowag on the market the answer is sadly no, nothing yet!

I scratched a 1/35th Irish Piranha IIIH sometime ago using a Trumpy Stryker kit when they were first released, I'll get around to another sometime and have a few ideas with a friend but I'd love to see a version released sometime in the future.
The standard Irish and Danish versions are almost identical and I'm sure a model kit or conversion would sell quite well in both these countries. (hint to potential producers)







Phil: Thanks too for updating us on the FN/SLR (FN C1) issue, I'm learning more about this in foreign service everyday!



I have the day off so I'm going to try get some work done on the Pig, sorry for devating a little here today