Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Tiger Evolution
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Friday, November 05, 2010 - 09:11 AM UTC
This still leaves Tiger from sSSPzAbt 101 to be fitted in & a prime slot could be June 1944 – any ideas (Phil? David? Grant?)?

Here are my preliminary ideas for the Lates;

Feb 1944; Tiger 300, sPzAbt 505, Fgst 250829

Mar 1944; ? Tiger 312, sPzAbt 504 (wrecked in a ditch in Italy; see Restayn, Tigers on the Western Front, pp 56 & 57). I am sure this is an early March 1944 model.

Apr 1944; ? Tiger 122, sPzAbt 502 ex-Kampfgruppe Mittermeier, Hauptmann Scherf. 40mm turret roof armour, strapped-hinges on loader’s hatch with off-set handle, binocular mantlet sights and large muzzle break. I am sure this is an early April 1944 model.

May 1944; (Saumur) Tiger 114, sSSPzAbt 102, Fgst 251114, (white outline tac number 114 with black tac number 114 on the Gepack Kasten with a white outline and a pink lightning unit ID).

Jun 1944;

• ?Tiger 132, sPzAbt 501
• ? Fgst 251227
• ? Tiger Befehlswagen S01, Großdeutcshland
• ? Tiger B21, Großdeutcshland
• ? Tiger Befehlswagen B, sPzAbt 507

Jul 1944;

• ?Tiger 100, sPzAbt 507
• ? Stripey Tiger Großdeutcshland en route to the front, without tac numbers
• ?Tiger 913, Totenkopf
• ?Tiger 901, Totenkopf
• ?Tiger 01, PzAbt 301 Funklenk

August 1944;

• ?Tiger 233, sPzAbt 501
• ?Tiger 241, sSSPzAbt 102
• ?Tiger 913, Totenkopf

Comments more than welcome!

vanhall
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Posted: Sunday, November 07, 2010 - 07:46 PM UTC
Hi Bill,

Just a couple of quick notes about your list:

"Jul'44; Tiger 901 Totenkopf"
On this photo '901' looks to have the 'splash' guard around the loaders hatch,
which would mean a 25mm roof. Even though it does have the monocular sight.
Wouldn't this make '901' no later than a March'44 production?



..and: "June'44 Tiger Befehlswagen B, sPzAbt 507"
I thought the 3 photo'd 507 Befehlstigers were all 'mid' productions?

Grant.

barkmann424
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Posted: Monday, November 08, 2010 - 11:18 AM UTC
Evening Bill!
Unfortunately the latest possible date for a s.SS.Pz..Abt.101, is late March, or extremely early April. Though... If you sift through the images, there are a couple of cracking (shall we say?) 'production anomalies' in the 2nd Kompanie!



Speak later Tiger... Phil

Byrden
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Posted: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 11:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text




Feb 1944; Tiger 300, sPzAbt 505, Fgst 250829





Seems like a good choice.
It appears to have the smaller idler. The heater port should be on it, the 20 ton jack, no Feifel gear whatsoever, and no protective ring around the turret. It has the rear travel lock; good luck finding one. The adapter plate should be the third type.
Interesting that it has no cutouts at the front hull; they were supposed to be present since January. Makes me wonder about the heater port.

David
Byrden
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 05:02 AM UTC
OK, I took another look, and you can forget about Tiger 300 of s.Pz.Abt. 505.
It's a hybrid.



The hull is January/February 1944. The lack of cutouts indicates there is no heater port, but that's just a small mixup. Other Tigers had the same.

The turret, however, is pre-October with a pistol port.

David

Byrden
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 07:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text



Tiger 312, sPzAbt 504 (wrecked in a ditch in Italy; see Restayn, Tigers on the Western Front, pp 56 & 57). I am sure this is an early March 1944 model.




Seems to be February or March.



It has the 25mm roof, the turret ring, no travel lock, and the final kind of starter adapter.

David
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 09:01 AM UTC
Hello Grant, Phil & David! Looks like some changes are afoot. Maybe if I am ditching Tiger 300 of sPzAbt 505 I should move Tiger 312 of sPzAbt 504 to January 1944, move Totenkopf Tiger 901 to March and keep sPzAbt 503 (Kampfgruppe Mittermeier) Tiger 122 in April 1944.

What think you lot?

I am still missing a charging knight sPzAbt 505 Tiger and an SSsPzAbt 101 Tiger. Any ideas? In preference of Tigers from the missing units I would be happy to lose the following Tigers in order to represent the sPzAbt's not yet listed;

Feb 1943; Tiger 131, sPzAbt 504 (Bovington Tiger)
December 1943, Tiger ‘Red 308’, sPzAbt 502
Jun 1943; Tiger A02, Großdeutcshland (assuming we find a Großdeutcshland Tiger in the lates)

Thanks one & all for your input!


Bill

Panzers In Scale
Byrden
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 09:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text


move Totenkopf Tiger 901 to March





It does seem to be a late March Tiger. The combination of 25mm roof and monocular gunsight is interesting.

Is it a Befehlstiger?

David

vanhall
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 10:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


move Totenkopf Tiger 901 to March





It does seem to be a late March Tiger. The combination of 25mm roof and monocular gunsight is interesting.

Is it a Befehlstiger?

David




Now you've said it David, it would make sense.
Photos of the Early production '901' show it was a Befehlstiger.
Unfortunately, the two decent photos I have of the later '901' are taken from the right front side and the left front side.
On the left front side photo any evidence of a turret roof antenna base or a plugged MG are hidden by camo-foliage.

Grant.
vanhall
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 11:09 AM UTC
Bill,
If you're really looking to do a 'Totenkopf' Late Tiger. Have you considered '912'?
There's plenty of pics of this one.
It looks to have rain slits in the cupola and the pilzen sockets on the roof.
Makes it at least a June'44 prod?

Grant.
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 08:09 PM UTC
Hi David & Grant

Re Totenkopf Tiger 901 (presumed) Befehlswagen; if this was a command tank - which month would it have rolled off the production line? Can we see Pilzen? I have noticed that some of the Befehlswagen Tigers seem to be earlier than their month of production - I guess (like some Panzer IV Befehlswagens) that the tanks were set aside for completion/conversion, which took a little longer? Is there any way of knowing this? (ie specific despatch dates of Befehlswagen Tigers toTotenkopf in spring/summer 1944 etc).

Re Totenkopf Tiger 912 - did it have the larger muzzle break? If not - I will gladly put it in for June 1944, but any ideas for a final mod Tiger (eg August 1944) with a large muzzle break?

Cheers!


Bill
Byrden
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 10:38 PM UTC
Totenkopf got new Tigers in May. 901 is an early March build. The fact that it is a few weeks older than expected, suggests that it really is a Befehlswagen. They tended to sit around the factory for a while.

David
Byrden
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 09:52 AM UTC
912 does have the large muzzle brake, possibly a part swapped from another tank. It has Pilze and the original cupola drain slots; not the later ones that were centered between the periscopes.



David
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Friday, November 12, 2010 - 01:17 AM UTC
Hello David

Would Totenkopf Tiger 912 have been of July or possibly even August 1944 production? Would it have had a turret roof central weld seam also?


Bill
Byrden
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Posted: Friday, November 12, 2010 - 02:07 AM UTC
It must have had a 2-part roof because those date from May. The last Tigers were delivered to the unit on 26 July. I think it's a July build.

David
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Saturday, November 20, 2010 - 10:31 AM UTC
By Jove, I think (I've) got it!

Feb 1944; Tiger 300, sPzAbt 505, Fgst 250829

Mar 1944; Tiger 312, sPzAbt 504 (wrecked in a ditch in Italy)

Apr 1944; Tiger 122, sPzAbt 503

May 1944; Tiger 114, sSSPzAbt 102

Jun 1944; Two-tone ’Stripey Tiger’, Großdeutcshland (en route to unit in June 1944, no tac numbers or Balkancreuz)

Jul 1944; Tiger 912, Totenkopf

Aug 1944; Tiger 332, sPzAbt 510


Panzers in Scale

Let me know what you think...
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Saturday, November 20, 2010 - 10:42 AM UTC
This is the line-up so far;


Aug 1942; Tiger 111 sPzAbt 502, Fgst 250008

Sep 1942; Tiger 112, sPzAbt 501, Fgst 250012

Oct 1942; Fgst 250014 (TRANSPORT)

Nov 1942; Tiger 123, sPzAbt 503

Dec 1942; Fgst 250053, Wa Preuf 6

Jan 1943; Tiger 822, Das Reich (TRANSPORT)

Feb 1943; Tiger 131, sPzAbt 504 (Bovington Tiger)

Mar 1943; Tiger 323, Pz Dv Muncheberg, Berlin 1945 (assumed March build)

Apr 1943; F02 Fehrmann (assumed April build)

May 1943; Factory-finish Fgst 250234 (TRANSPORT)

Jun 1943; Tiger A02, Großdeutcshland

Jul 1943; Tiger 8 'Strolch', Tiger Gr Meyer, Italian Front 1943

Aug 1943; Red W11, sPzAbt 506

Sep 1943; Tiger 113, sPzAbt 509

Oct 1943; Tiger 113, sPzAbt 501 (TRANSPORT)

Nov 1943; Tiger ‘White-outline 2 or 3’, sPzAbt 508

Dec 1943; Tiger 321, SSsPzAbt 101

Jan 1944; ‘Tiger A’ befehlswagen sPzAbt 507

Feb 1944; Tiger 300, sPzAbt 505, Fgst 250829

Mar 1944; Tiger 312, sPzAbt 504 (wrecked in a ditch in Italy)

Apr 1944; Tiger 122, sPzAbt 503 ex-Kampfgruppe Mittermeier

May 1944; Tiger 114, sSSPzAbt 102, Fgst 251114

Jun 1944; Stripey Tiger Großdeutcshland (TRANSPORT)

Jul 1944; Tiger 912, Totenkopf

Aug 1944; Tiger 332, sPzAbt 510


Then two Sturmtigers for good measure, taking us well into to autumn 1944.

Abyssinia!


Bill
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 - 06:24 AM UTC
Looks like this;



Will be an interesting option for the mid-Tiger 1's in the series.

Looking forward to the DML release also (hoping there will be one soon...)

Anybody have ideas about decal options in this 6660 release? Will it just be Tiger Befehlswagen A2?

Cheers!


Bill
Byrden
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Posted: Monday, November 29, 2010 - 07:26 AM UTC
Bill:

The good news is that your chosen ‘Tiger A’ befehlswagen sPzAbt 507, is right there in that box.

I can't say when or if a standard version will appear. Gave my word to keep mum.

This one has no Feifel gear or standard rear wall.

David

Major-Hazard
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Posted: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - 08:33 AM UTC
Nice one; that one should fit really well into the scheme of things, shouldn't it? Great to hear it will accommodate Tiger Befehlswagen 'A' of sPzAbt 507 as well!

Back on track very soon.

Cheers!


Bill
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Posted: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 - 09:39 AM UTC
Watcha Bill.

Loads of great info on here dude, fantastic attention to detail.

Stuart
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Posted: Monday, January 03, 2011 - 01:06 PM UTC
Hi Bill and COmpany.

Bill, I think you are even crazier than me with my six campaigns at once build!

But it will be amazing to see all those Tigers on the one bench when you are finished. Over the years I have built the grand total of two Tigers, the OO/HO AIrfix one from many many moons ago, and the very old Tamiya 1/35th one which I was given for nothing and I bodged together. I have quite a few Dragon TIgers in the stash as well as the Academy one with full interior. WIll have to get around to building one soon..

Good luck with your project Sir.

Regards
Warren
Major-Hazard
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Posted: Thursday, January 06, 2011 - 03:13 AM UTC
Hi Stu & Warren and all the boys!

So far this winter I had the crazy idea of painting the 18 (or so) built Panzers in virtual unison. Currently I hit my ceiling at 5 per go...any more than that I think I might go completely mad, that or a divorce. Ulp...

Either way; this Tiger's tale will continue in February (2011)! Whoop!

ATM I have six builds complete; Aug, Sep, Nov, Dec 1942, Jan 1943 and a summer 1944 jobbie. I got DML6252 as a Christmas pressie for October 1942 and will upgrade a Tamiya DAK Tiger to the Bovington Tiger for February 1943...then reckon I might paint the eight as a batch & then move on.

In the meantime wrap your laughing gear around this lot;



Ciao ciao & thanks for looking!


Bill

Panzers In Scale
tomapaul
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Posted: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 - 11:03 PM UTC
Now this makes me mad!!! I'm a lazy boy...a real modeling slug.

Really nice to see all those tigers. Keep up the good work, hope to see them painted very soon.
ChrisDM
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Posted: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 - 11:17 PM UTC
nice production line you have going there Billbo