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Яusso-Soviэt Forum: Cold War Soviet Armor
For discussions related to cold war era Russo-Soviet armor.
Chechen "Белая ворона"
shopkin4
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Posted: Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 01:14 PM UTC
For those who do not speak Russian (including me, ) Белая ворона translates into "White Crow". Now you may be wondering what am I getting at with a nickname such as this.

During The First Chechen War there were direct armor versus armor engagements in which T-72A's of Shali's Armored Battalion battled against T-72A's and T-72B's of the Russian Federation. With ammo shortages and strategies focused around guerilla warfare/ATGM, an armor strategy was abandoned from the side of the Chechen fighters.

There are few images of these vehicles, but they are very easy to distinguish from other T-72A's. Chechen T-72A's have a white washed turret and front glacis plate, which was usually muddy and rarely cleaned. Also, the front fenders were usually beat to hell or completely missing. Along with the fenders the side skirts were also beat to hell. Also, every photo of the vehicle was extremely muddy and dirty, which I assume during the heat of conflict the least of their worries was cleaning their vehicles. Lastly, the vehicle I will be attempting to model will fly the Chechen flag as well as the other flag seen in pictures below.









I will be using the following:
Tamiya T-72M1
SP Designs T-72A Glacis Plate
Miniarm T-72 Late Style Wheels
Miniarm T-72A Turret
Voyager Modern Russian Smoke Grenades Charged
Voyager Modern Russian Smoke Grenades Uncharged
Eduard T-72M1 Zoom
When it comes out Voyager T-72M1 Side Skirts
When it comes out Voyager T-72M1 Basic
Warriors Chechnya Freedom Fighter
Miniarm T-72 RMsH Tracks
WWP T-72/M in Detail and various other references.

So without further adieu here are some shots of progress I made.

First, I cut out the glacis plate of the Tamiya M1 hull and slowly but surely dry fit the SP Designs glacis plate to the hull. I then removed the fenders and began removing the molded on straps which hold the fender mounted fuel tanks and stowage bins. I am working slowly with Mission Model's Micro Chisel and will continue to trim the areas on the resin SP Designs plate as well as the remaining portions of the Tamiya upper hull.





Thats all for now. I will be making small progress until I get my T-62 done, then I can progress on this beast full steam ahead.

As always, thanks for looking and please offer any advice or suggestions that you may have. :-H
kruppw
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Posted: Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 02:33 PM UTC
Good god Sean you sure do have alot going into your T-72!!! But it will defiantly be much deferent from the normal T-72's out there. Hey I posted some some stuff on one of your blogs asking for help on the t-72 you may want to check out. I came across a russian model site with the very tank you are planning to model that someone has built up. I figure it would be worth sharing with you. Did you have any problems with mating up the tamiya hull to the SP part? I'm currently doing to research into a latter project for a cezch T-72m4. So I'm going to be watching your build and taking notes. By the way how is the detail on the miniarm turret and wheels?
Chris
shopkin4
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Posted: Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 07:02 PM UTC
Thanks a lot Chris. Here are the images of the T-72A turret and the wheels. I also haphazardly placed everything on the turret hull just to give you a feeling of the vehicle.

The turret is especially very well cast. You can see the parts cast to the turret which also hold the cable to the turret.








If you want, I can post pictures of the Miniarm T-72B parts as well if you'd like. I'm not sure if want to concurrently build the M1A1 AIM I have, Leopard 2A6M CDN with slat, or ASLAV-25 with bar armor I have. Too many decisions
shopkin4
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Posted: Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 07:05 PM UTC
Also, SP Designs hull fits great with tedious sanding and trimming from the tamiya hull and the resin portion. The first glacis plate I had was kind of messed up and was way too large, like 4mm wider on each side but the other one was loads better. After about 15 min of careful sanding I had the part to the exact size and using a fresh 11 blade I was able to make short clean work of the tamiya hull.
Gorizont
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Posted: Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 08:38 PM UTC
Wow, great... good luck with this!
This looks like a lot of work!
If I counted correct, you will use 9 AM-sets for this kit.

Would you make some compatison photos with some kit-parts and the AM sets?
This would be fine!

greetings...
Soeren
Karl187
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Posted: Monday, June 14, 2010 - 01:01 AM UTC
Sean, there's digging a hole...And then there's this:


Quoted Text

I will be using the following:
Tamiya T-72M1
SP Designs T-72A Glacis Plate
Miniarm T-72 Late Style Wheels
Miniarm T-72A Turret
Voyager Modern Russian Smoke Grenades Charged
Voyager Modern Russian Smoke Grenades Uncharged
Eduard T-72M1 Zoom
When it comes out Voyager T-72M1 Side Skirts
When it comes out Voyager T-72M1 Basic
Warriors Chechnya Freedom Fighter
Miniarm T-72 RMsH Tracks
WWP T-72/M in Detail and various other references.



We'll tell you when we can't see you no more!


Anyway, this is already looking pretty good. That turret looks mighty.
I never knew the Chechens had tanks.
Fascinating.
shopkin4
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Posted: Monday, June 14, 2010 - 02:52 AM UTC
Soren,

Here are some other shots of the T-72B project I'm planning. I think work with go along side this one as well.

The turret was damaged when it got to me as was the glacis plate. I had to unwarp the plate by placing it in hot near boiling water and rapidly cooling it with ice water (as suggested by Jacques). Other than me hating to try and fix tiny parts this turret is cast just as beautifully.

Also, here is a shot of the parts comprising the KMT-7 as well as the figures I planned on using.

Lastly, the barrel that came with it was NOT an RB Barrel but a Miniarm barrel. The bore evacuator is VERY detailed as it has all the bolts along with the weld seam. I will be using this barrel on my T-72A as it will be without it's thermal sleeve.

Makes me now that I look back at it all










Thanks for looking everyone

kruppw
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Posted: Monday, June 14, 2010 - 03:31 AM UTC
Thanks for sharing some of the kit parts with me Sean. I defiantly love the details on the miniarm turret. I'm going to have to pick one up now. I was curious about the fit of the tamiya and sp parts do to the fact I still have my T-80's to build. I'm dreading cutting off the rear deck and trying to fit the replacement. But seeing how you did your would be no different than what I have to do. The anti-radation panels on the B-turret looks well done and the barrel looks great. I can see that you and Jon are both going to be doing KMT-7 with your kits, now we just need someone to tackle the BTU-55 blade. I'm digging the figures, good choice. You defiantly have your work cut out for you, good luck
Chris
afv_rob
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Posted: Monday, June 14, 2010 - 11:11 AM UTC
Great to see you starting this Sean!

Seems we must have separated at birth-both working on T-72's both just celebrated our 22nd birthdays, both finishing university!

Cant wait to see this progress, might have a few pics of my T-72B to upload tomorrow!
Jacques
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Posted: Monday, June 14, 2010 - 12:38 PM UTC
Chris - I dread cutting off the rear deck for the -UD as well. But Sergej came out with a one-piece upper hull now. You can look it over at SAAMMODELS. It is LOADS easier than the old way of adding the correct rear deck...
Reiter960
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Posted: Monday, June 14, 2010 - 01:00 PM UTC
I know this is off-topic, but where did you get that resin KMT-7 roller kit?
shopkin4
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Posted: Monday, June 14, 2010 - 01:19 PM UTC
MiG Productions USA. It's cast very well, however the instructions are soooo tiny. There was a discussion on Jon's T-80 blog in which he and Chris were able to find a larger electronic version on their site in .pdf form.
shopkin4
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Posted: Monday, June 14, 2010 - 07:52 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Great to see you starting this Sean!

Seems we must have separated at birth-both working on T-72's both just celebrated our 22nd birthdays, both finishing university!

Cant wait to see this progress, might have a few pics of my T-72B to upload tomorrow!



:D you might be correct Rob. If you happen to be black then I'd believe you. Also, Carmen Manning may be related to us as well. Post your progress shots soon!
shopkin4
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Posted: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 09:01 PM UTC
Today I wanted to switch gears for a bit and I got to work on the Turret. The Miniarm kit comes together rather easily, however I did my best to try and mimic the wiring for the smoke grenade launchers. I plan on covering them in liquid masking agent to get the appearance of an insulated covering to bring it all together. I have much more to do on here such as adding the stowage boxes, weld seams and a few other components and wires and this turret will be complete. Also, I will be waiting on the Voyager set to be released as there are quite a few things on there I'd place on this vehicle.

Anywho here are the pictures from today's work:






As always, any comments are very welcomed and thank you for taking the time to read and look!
redcap
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Posted: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 09:22 PM UTC
Great start Sean!

One only has to look at the interest generated on this site and others for any new build project of modern 1/35 Soviet / Russian Fed. armour to realise how popular a modelling subject they are.

A new tool T-72 series / 80 / 90 would surely be a no brainer for the likes of DML / Tamiya / Trumpeter (A Team only)rather than the usual fare of re-hashed and 'tweaked' M4's and PZ IV chassis vehicles. It would also save having to buy the plethora of aftermarket to get a decent model from those that are available.

Imagine a DML series comparable to the M1A1 & 2 they did!

Look forward to following this build with interest - keep the pics coming Sean.

Gary
Reiter960
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Posted: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 09:42 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Great start Sean!

One only has to look at the interest generated on this site and others for any new build project of modern 1/35 Soviet / Russian Fed. armour to realise how popular a modelling subject they are.

A new tool T-72 series / 80 / 90 would surely be a no brainer for the likes of DML / Tamiya / Trumpeter (A Team only)rather than the usual fare of re-hashed and 'tweaked' M4's and PZ IV chassis vehicles. It would also save having to buy the plethora of aftermarket to get a decent model from those that are available.

Imagine a DML series comparable to the M1A1 & 2 they did!

Look forward to following this build with interest - keep the pics coming Sean.

Gary


Not going to happen. Period
Although, there is going to be a injection molded T-90S/A from Zvezda by end of this year. In the right scale, of course
Berkut916
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Posted: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 10:00 PM UTC
May be helps you, some good fotos
http://karopka.ru/showthread.php?t=10859
Karl187
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Posted: Thursday, June 17, 2010 - 12:50 AM UTC
I'd like to see a DML T-80 or 90. The M1 series was so popular and years ago they had the Shilka and BRDM- why not more modern Russian releases. It seems strange because I'll bet they would sell way more than the usual 'slightly different Panzer IV from last month'.
I think Trumpy are going in the right direction with the T-62s and also the couple (was it one or two?) of modern Russian APC/IFV's they have announced.

Anyway, the turret looks the business- the interior periscope detail and the wiring on the smoke grenades is fantastic.
kruppw
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Posted: Thursday, June 17, 2010 - 04:22 AM UTC
Sorry guys I will have to agree with George, there's just no market for updated modern russian equipment. I should know as I have 5 PZIV just sitting on my shelf. Tamiya and DML would rather keep turning out WWII subject ranther than modern stuff as it doesn't draw much attention. After all WWII is in the spot light more than any other history. Trumpeter on the other hand is some hope to the rest of us in they plan to release a series of BMP-3 and sometime soon I hope a T-64.

Anyways, Sean your turret is starting to look pretty good so far. I like how you did your electrical conduit. Here is something you can try for the next time you do electrical conduits that have multiple wires that come out of them. I like to take plastic rod and shape it over a candle and drill a small hole into the side and insert wire. It's a little bit more time comsuming and pain in the butt to pull off, but it helps to keep the wire from looking they are sitting onto of a conduit. Not that your looks that way, it actually looks realalistic on your turret. Defiantly keep up the good work.
Chris
shopkin4
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Posted: Thursday, June 17, 2010 - 05:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

May be helps you, some good fotos
http://karopka.ru/showthread.php?t=10859



Amazing source...these photos will do wonders for me. Thanks again!

As far as modern releases go, we will just have to wait on Trumpeter for now. Albeit I will be getting Tamiya's BT-7 modern for me is the way to go and at some point the top companies will do something similar to my buying habits and go out and produce a very accurate modern Russian vehicle. I have faith that they will but it's just a matter of time.

Take into account the research that must be done by these companies to get it right. Also take into account WWII takes precedence so I feel that as love as Shermans and PZ IV's are doing well the modern releases will still find it way to the back.

I still have to say, god bless Trumpeter and HobbyBoss for venturing into a relatively untapped market.

Once again, thanks for the comments!
redcap
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Posted: Thursday, June 17, 2010 - 05:10 AM UTC

Great progress Sean and it looks like a future MOTM winner in the making!

Chris / George

I hope for all the right reasons you are both wrong on the submissions that none of the 'big boys' will EVER release any 1/35 modern(ish) Russian/ Soviet armour.

After all, who just a few years ago would have said we would ever see quality injection plastic models in 1/35 of subjects such as 'Leopold', 'Morser Karl' or obscure vehicles such as "Dicker Max" etc get produced!

Perhaps there is an open goal here for, say, AFV Club to exploit or indeed Trumpeter rather than constant head-head with DML on the same subjects; fingers crossed!

Gary

kruppw
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Posted: Thursday, June 17, 2010 - 05:30 AM UTC
Gary I hope I'm wrong, I really do. It would be nice to have some newer stuff on the market, but I just don't see it happening any time soon. I just hope trumpeter can answer our calls as dragon keeps release stuff they have already done many times over, just reboxing them as smart kits or adding a few changes. But for now we have folks like Sean and Jon to keep our hopes alive with fantastic work they are doing.
Chris
shopkin4
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Posted: Thursday, June 17, 2010 - 05:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

May be helps you, some good fotos
http://karopka.ru/showthread.php?t=10859



Can anyone translate the captions of the photos on page 2? I feel like they would be a massive help. I can't copy and paste this
Gorizont
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Posted: Thursday, June 17, 2010 - 05:53 AM UTC
Can anyone translate the captions of the photos on page 2? I feel like they would be a massive help. I can't copy and paste this

Yes, it´s an image.
I will try to paste the single letters to get a good russian text and translation.
I can read it, but that´s not useful for you.

Or perhaps the faster way... a russian model-builder can help us.

greetings...
Soeren
Berkut916
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Posted: Thursday, June 17, 2010 - 08:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Can anyone translate the captions of the photos on page 2? I feel like they would be a massive help. I can't copy and paste this


1. captured T-72А "white crow" with a broken barrel of the gun. Typical damage of tanks during the fighting in Grozny in 1994-1995, broken barrel guns. January 1995
2. Chechen tank T-72A on the streets of Grozny. January 11, 1995
4. Russian prisoners repairing tanks T-72A, seized Dudayev opposition forces during the storming of Grozny. December 3, 1994 In the background is seen the presidential palace.
4. Trophy tank T-72А (White Crow), damaged in the fighting for the railway station battery 2S9 Nona-S of the unit of Captain А. Silin, Airborne. January 1995
25. Chechen tank T-72A side. 490, clearly visible white board number, painted with whitewash tower.
28. T-72A side Nr.490 trapped unit Dudayev from oppositions during the unsuccessful assault on Grozny, Nov. 26, 1994. Tank used militants-bandits in urban battles with federal troops in January 1995.
32. Trophy T-72A captured by federal troops, from the militants in Grozny. For the typical tower, painted white with lime, these machines have the federal troops were called "White Crows". After repairing the tank used in the group "North" in battles on the square Minute. January 1995

P. S. These photos are taken from the book "The tanks in the battle for Grozny."
If anyone needs this book, I have a scanned form, I can send e-mail, though the whole book in Russian or download from the Internet, the original title of the book "Танки в боях за Грозный".
 _GOTOTOP