Яusso-Soviэt Forum: WWII Soviet Armor
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KV-1 Model 1941
vonHengest
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Posted: Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 03:41 PM UTC
Whoa, bummer Bill. It sounds like the paint was too thick while going through the brush. I haven't used Vallejo paints yet because I've heard that they are very dense with pigments or something close to that, however the Vallejo Model Air paints shouldn't be as much of a problem. I noticed that your mixture doesn't include a thinner, which may be where your problem is.

As far as cleaning the brush, you shouldn't be disassembling it for normal cleaning. Try shooting some cleaner of your choice through your brush if you haven't already. This should clean out your brush unless there is a hardener (the varnish may be acting as one) or really thick deposits built up inside of it. If this is the case, then you do need to disassemble your brush and soak the parts until the deposits are loose enough to rinse or easily remove.
BillGorm
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 01:00 AM UTC
Jeremy - I normally thin Tamiya paints with distilled water, although I've heard windshield wiper fluid works well too. The Tamiya acrylic thinner is too rich for my blood for all but the most important stuff. For Vallejo paints, I've been told simple distilled water works well as a thinner - that's what I used last night.

And I normally don't disassemble the brush completely to clean it. I'm doing that now because it's been a month, maybe two, since I last used it. We'll see how the windex soak helps. Question for everyone: When I reassemble the brush, do I need to add lubricant anywhere? I've heard the ammonia in window cleaner will "dry the brush out" when used repeatedly.


vonHengest
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 10:30 AM UTC
Shoot, I forgot to mention that. The only thing you have to worry about are the seals (usually little o-rings inside of airbrush assemblies), those are what people are talking about when they mention drying out an airbrush. If you can remove them before soaking the parts then I would do so. You may need to slightly oil them so that they stay soft. Make sure that you inspect them for cracks and such, and if you find any then you will need to replace them with new ones.

I would recommend that you buy a can/bottle of the generic thinner from Wal-Mart and test that out with your Tamiya and Vallejo paints on a piece of cardstock or your old T-34 turret. Many paints are confused as being water-based because they are acrylic, which is not true. Acrylic paints are what replaced lacquer paints in the automotive industry because they are more durable. Such acrylics need a proper paint thinner as they are not water-based. There are water-based paint formulas out there, which is probably where the confusion comes from. This may be the problem with the paint acting weird in your brush.

Another route you can go is to use a different brand of paint. LifeColor paints are very ideal for airbrushes, as they are premixed and are water based. This means of course that you can spray them directly from the bottles, but it also means that you only need to spray distilled water through the brush afterward to clean it out. Because there is only water flowing through your airbrush instead of harsh chemicals, your seals will last longer as they will remain moistened by the water-based paints and the distilled water running through the brush rather than being dried out by paint thinners, ammonia, or other chemicals that actually draw moisture out of the seals.
MrNeil
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 12:56 PM UTC
Bill, I think Jeremy might have hit it on the head when he mentioned the varnish acting as a hardener. I've used Vallejo Model Air straight from the bottle for years and never had a problem. I usually mix the Model Air Russian Green with a little Vallejo Model Color Yellow Green to lighten it up a bit, and put a couple drops of Windex in the cup to thin it a little because of the Yellow Green. I've never used Gloss Varnish in the mix though, and that may have been what screwed you up.

Best of luck ungumming the brush. I find that when it does happen...had a couple of similar occurrences over the years...a 24 hour soak in Windex often does the trick, followed by shooting a few cups of Windex through the brush.

Cheers,

Neil
BillGorm
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 02:05 PM UTC
The windex soak did the trick. That was the first time in almost a year that I had to completely tear the airbrush apart and soak it overnight to clean it, so while the gloss varnish might have caused the problem, I'd bet it was just a dirty airbrush. Interestingly, the gloss varnish created a different problem when I spray paint today. The shine made it difficult to tell whether I had gotten paint into all the crevices. We'll see tomorrow morning, when I'll try to post some pictures.
BillGorm
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Posted: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 02:19 PM UTC
I applied the base coat yesterday based on Mike Rinaldi's SBS - Vallejo Model Air Russian Green, Pale Green, Yellow, and Gloss Varnish in a 50-20-20-10 ratio. Next steps per Mike's SBS are to: a) attach and paint the tow cables, b) paint the exhausts, and c) apply the vehicle markings. Mike used dry transfers, but I will be using water slide decals and will thus need to spray Future first.

Here are a few photos:









And a close-up of the turret that highlights the texture added with Mr. Surfacer 500:



Comments welcome!
CMOT
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Posted: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 04:04 PM UTC
Never ever under any circumstances put a lubricant into your brush unless it is specifically made for that purpose, and even if it is you take the absolute minimum and half it. If you put something like WD40 in an airbrush you might as well throw it away as you will never get rid of it, and any paint sprayed will just make really pretty patterns like water based paint over wax crayon. A thorough clean of the airbrush should be done when it is not going to be used for a reasonable period of time, or about every 6 to 12 months unless of course you encounter a problem such as you had.

Neil if you want any more pictures of the KV at Bovington I go at least once a month if not twice, just shout.
MrNeil
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Posted: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 04:21 PM UTC
Bill, I'm going to be a pain in the ass but there are two things I just noticed in your latest posted pics.

First, there's a small notch on the top edge of the left-hand hull side immediately abreast of the idler mount. This is a locating slot for the kit fender and since you've removed the forward fender section, you should fill this slot.

Second, I think you've omitted the vertical part of the foremost fender bracket on the right-hand fender...there's an exposed locating slot there.

Sorry for not noticing these earlier.

Cheers,

Neil
MrNeil
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Posted: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 04:28 PM UTC
Darren, thanks for the offer on the pics but I think I'm good for the time being. The Tank Museum folks were wonderful in giving me access to the vehicle on the two occasions I was there recently, and letting me use pictures for the book.

Cheers,

Neil
vonHengest
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Posted: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 05:08 PM UTC
Lookin good there Bill, can't wait to see how the decals turn out.

And Darren is right about not running oil through your brush. If it sounded that way, that isn't what I meant. I meant to take the O-rings out and touch them with a bit of oil so that they soften back up.

However it looks like everything is working fine and proper now with your airbrush, which suggests your seals are a-ok
BillGorm
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Posted: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 01:45 AM UTC
Darren - Thanks for the input on oiling up the airbrush. Do you use airbrush lubricant or nothing at all? And if you do use it, where do you apply it - to the needle and the inside of the trigger assembly? Sorry if that's a stupid question, but the airbrush instructions provide zero guidance.

Neil - Thanks for the fender catch. I've been staring at that hole in the fender for weeks, but for some reason it didn't dawn on me that I had forgotten to attach a part. Duh. Easy enough to fix, though, especially since I'm not done spraying the base coat yet. Ditto for the notch on the front left fender ... don't know how I missed that. My putty skills are questionable at best, but now that you've pointed that out I have to try and fix it. Don't be surprised if that part of the vehicle ends up heavily caked in dust and dirt.
MrNeil
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Posted: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 02:04 AM UTC
Bill, the best way to deal with the notch is to get a small rectangular chunk of stryene strip and glue it into the notch. When dry, sand it flush and fill any remaining gaps with putty or Mr Surfacer. Much easier than trying to putty the whole thing.

Cheers,

Neil
BillGorm
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Posted: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 02:16 AM UTC
Neil - Thanks for the tip. Couple other questions for you:

1) I plan to follow Mike's original SBS to create an overall green vehicle with generic markings. I intend to ditch the yellow numbers that came with the kit in favor of a generic "07". Nothing horribly inaccurate with that, right?
2) I am thinking about painting stars, circles, and triangles on the turret similar to the "bespozhadniy" tank. What are your thoughts on this? Have you seen these types of markings on other KV-1's? I would guess it was a roughly agreed / recognized system ... otherwise, why would the "bespozhadniy" crew have bothered putting the symbols on their turret in the first place?


MrNeil
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Posted: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 07:50 AM UTC
Hi Bill...answers below:


Quoted Text

1) I plan to follow Mike's original SBS to create an overall green vehicle with generic markings. I intend to ditch the yellow numbers that came with the kit in favor of a generic "07". Nothing horribly inaccurate with that, right?



Depends...two-digit turret numbers were certainly common in the spring/summer of 1942 but applications varied widely. '07' would imply the seventh tank in a unit, which would be valid from May 1942 onward when the heavy company in a Tank Brigade had 10 KVs, increased from five. Photographs suggest that turret numbers from this period were typically large - full height of the turret side was fairly common in the second half of 1942


Quoted Text


2) I am thinking about painting stars, circles, and triangles on the turret similar to the "bespozhadniy" tank. What are your thoughts on this? Have you seen these types of markings on other KV-1's? I would guess it was a roughly agreed / recognized system ... otherwise, why would the "bespozhadniy" crew have bothered putting the symbols on their turret in the first place?



Besposhadniy is the only vehicle on which I've seen the stars/circles/triangles kill markings. It's entirely up to you if you want to use that arrangement on a generic vehicle, but I think it was pretty uncommon. Remember, Besposhadniy was a special case...donated by the winners of the Stalin Prize and used a lot in Frontline Illustrations magazine as a morale boosting tool for the folks back home, so it got special treatment. Kill markings in general seem to have been very rare on KV-1s.

Cheers,

Neil
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Posted: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 - 10:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Darren - Thanks for the input on oiling up the airbrush. Do you use airbrush lubricant or nothing at all? And if you do use it, where do you apply it - to the needle and the inside of the trigger assembly? Sorry if that's a stupid question, but the airbrush instructions provide zero guidance.



Bill I have only ever used oil in the airbrush when it is being put away for a long period, and then I only oil the needle and wipe it very well removing as much as possible. If you take a look on the KitMaker site under features then KitMaker university you will find a very good how to on cleaning airbrushes by Dave (Grumpy) O'Meara. it covers the stripping and reassembly of an airbrush, and while it may not be the same airbrush as yours it does give you a starting point.
BillGorm
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Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 - 04:23 AM UTC
Darren - Thank you for pointing me toward Dave's how to on air brushes.

Neil - A few questions for you, if you don't mind:

1) Just so I'm clear on the turret numbering, if the vehicle was number seven would that have appeared as "07" or just "7" ... or were both styles used?
2) Do you have any idea what color the Soviets used for primer? Mike uses a rust color in his SBS, but he freely admits that was a guess.
3) How would you suggest attaching an antenna to the mount? Simply drill a hole and insert a length of stretched sprue or is the attachment point more complicated than that?

MrNeil
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Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 - 12:48 PM UTC
Hi Bill...answers below:


Quoted Text


1) Just so I'm clear on the turret numbering, if the vehicle was number seven would that have appeared as "07" or just "7" ... or were both styles used?



I've never seen leading zeros used on KV turret numbers, so I'd recommend going with just a '7'.


Quoted Text


2) Do you have any idea what color the Soviets used for primer? Mike uses a rust color in his SBS, but he freely admits that was a guess.



Standard primer was red oxide. The primer on the Aberdeen vehicle, built in the spring of 1942 and therefore appropriate for the kit you're building, is red oxide.


Quoted Text


3) How would you suggest attaching an antenna to the mount? Simply drill a hole and insert a length of stretched sprue or is the attachment point more complicated than that?



Nope, just drill a hole in the center of the mount and insert the antenna. I use 10-thou brass wire but stretched sprue would work too. There were several different types of antenna...1.2m and 1.8m so 34mm or 51mm in 1/35 scale.

Cheers,

Neil
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Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 - 02:09 PM UTC
Bill,

Nice looking KV, and just for your info, you can also use finger nail polish remover to remove the glue.....maybe a bit late coming with this one but for future reference. Just use a brush and dab on to the glue you want to remove,

Sometimes it takes a few applications and prying of the parts. I think it works better on super glue but it will work on regular.

Regards, Paul
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Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 - 03:07 PM UTC
Paul nail varnish remover is acetone which melts plastic I thought.
daffyduck
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Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 - 05:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Paul nail varnish remover is acetone which melts plastic I thought.



You are correct Darren but I think if you wipe off the remover it doesn't hurt the plastic.....I know some melting occurs.

I had to remove a gun barrel assembly from my Tristar Flak 38 kit and it worked without too much melting.

In Bills case I don't think it would significantly damage a small hatch? But YMMV of course.....

Paul
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Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 - 06:19 PM UTC
Without grabbing one of the kits I believe there is very little detail if any to worry about. If that is correct I would have drilled it out and then placed some card through the turret ring, and then apply a disc from the top.
BillGorm
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Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 - 11:01 PM UTC
Neil - Thank you for the answers - especially the scale lengths of the antenna. I forgot to ask about the tail light ... whether both the top and bottom halves should both be painted red. I made this mistake on my Pershing a while back ...

Paul - Thanks for the nail polish remover tip. Since the model is already painted, I'm going to move on. These kits are so reasonably priced that I'm sure I'll have another opportunity in the near future to get it 100% right.
MrNeil
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Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 - 06:43 AM UTC
Hi Bill...the top lens is blue (though it usually looks black when unlit) and the lower one is red.

Cheers,

Neil
vonHengest
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Posted: Friday, August 27, 2010 - 06:53 PM UTC
Bill: I haven't had a chance to work on any models this past week, will get to those tracks by Wednesday and share my results with you.
BillGorm
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Posted: Saturday, August 28, 2010 - 03:56 PM UTC
Jeremy - No rush, just post pics when you get around to it. Mike suggested I give my tracks a dark wash, so I used the MIG Productions dark and brown washes in a 50:50 ratio. I'll post some photos tomorrow when I've got natural light.

Neil - The vasty majority of photos (and finished models) I've seen don't show an antenna. Based on your research, how common would you say they were? I've been looking at the base of the antenna on the model and it doesn't seem like it would be easy to drill a hole for one. If antennas were prevalent in late 1941-early 1942, then I'll give it a go. If not, then I'll bag it.