Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
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Leo 2A6 Barracuda + Mineroller from PSM
gcdavidson
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 09:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Borrowed from the PSM site
The mine roller is advertised at 39.50 euro's
The rollers look to be a direct copy of the Academy KTM-4 rollers that come in their Merk II kits. The center beam of the wheel cradle should be hollow
cheers



I guess if you want good resin, ya gots ta pay! That's $55 Cdn.

Not sure if its a copy Rick - I think the Academy rollers have the tubular brackets, the PSM ones look to be squared off in that pic?

I also thought that a TAV team deployed to AFG to specifically make a mounting bracket for the 2A6M, so I am surprised to hear that it fits the C1/C2 as well....

LeoCmdr
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 09:34 AM UTC
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There are some accuracy problems with the new kit:
1) Crew umbrella should be covered in cudda cam and stop sign shaped, and is too far forward.

The umbrella postion is correct as there are two post mounts on the turret for the umbrella on the 2A6M CAN....one next to the PERI sight and the other forward next to the Commander's large vision block. Looking at the PSM images both posts are provided for the two umbrella mount positions. It would have been very nice for PSM to have provided the umbrella in the folded and stowed position as an option.

Sorry to bring this up, but after seeing the mount for the umbrella up close, the kit part is too far forward and yes even with the 2 position mount it is still far forward.
Not here to flame anything, but it was my first observations with the kit photos.

Anthony



No worries at all....the more eyes on the objective the better.....the position of the umbrella is a very easy fix.....and we are looking at an assembled model where the builder might have placed it wrong.

I agree with you Andreas......this is a fantastic conversion and a job well done.
chnoone
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 09:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The thing is, there is no excuse for getting it wrong. With all the info available on the 'net and the wealth of people willing to make their knowledge available to the manufactures and they still can't get the basics right is inexcusable.

I agree it's a nice kit and I will most likely get one.


cheers



I'm with Andreas on this subject, you can't be serious about a stupid umbrella? I wonder if HB did provide one in their kit, and what about the 3rd. generation side skirts ? From what I gather HB just did the bare neccesaties to utilise most their Leo 2 series, carefully avoiding any up to date "Barracuda-option".
As mentioned before I am not into this "camo-thing", maybe because I would not have a clue how to reproduce it myself.
I believe that PSM must have used some kind of reliable reference to make this kit, knowing they haven't got the real thing sitting in their garage.
Besides, all the info we have are the pics, none of us have the kit in hands right now, so before I make a finale judgement I want to see it for real.
As Andreas said, why not be glad that some small company had the guts to a make a tank of which only 20+ even exist, and that they did not choose to do another Tiger which would have been more profitable.
Although this particular Leo isn't really my piece of cake, I believe many other modellers are quite happy now to have a really good alternative (with maybe very, very minor flaws)


Cheers
Christopher
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 09:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Borrowed from the PSM site




The mine roller is advertised at 39.50 euro's




The rollers look to be a direct copy of the Academy KTM-4 rollers that come in their Merk II kits. The center beam of the wheel cradle should be hollow

They also claim that it's for both Leo 1's and 2's? Does it come with different bra attachments?


cheers



The Bra for the roller is the same for the Leo C1/C2 and the Leo 2A6M CAN.......now, before anyone counters that.....I think there were some minor changes to the bra headlight mounting for the 2A6M CAN......but the actual bra is the same.

A framed mount is attached to the glacis plate of the 2A6M to adjust for the positioning of the lifting eyes and how the bra mounts on the hull front......the framed mount is not part of the bra....it just supplements it so it can be attached to the Leo 2 hull. The bra rests on the framed mount and attaches to the modified lifting eyes.

This is what it appears to me to be the case from the latest 2010 images I have received from tankers working on the Leos in Afghanistan. If I am incorrect please explain further.

sauceman
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 12:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Borrowed from the PSM site
The mine roller is advertised at 39.50 euro's
The rollers look to be a direct copy of the Academy KTM-4 rollers that come in their Merk II kits. The center beam of the wheel cradle should be hollow
cheers



I guess if you want good resin, ya gots ta pay! That's $55 Cdn.

Not sure if its a copy Rick - I think the Academy rollers have the tubular brackets, the PSM ones look to be squared off in that pic?

I also thought that a TAV team deployed to AFG to specifically make a mounting bracket for the 2A6M, so I am surprised to hear that it fits the C1/C2 as well....




I say this because I used the Academy ones for my C2 and didn't feel like replacing the bar after it was glued and painted LOL.








cheers
ih245dlc
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 02:07 PM UTC

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Well maybe I'll hold off on my plans to buy the Mouse house dozer blade and just wait for these guys to come out with one for my Leopard C-1.



The Mouse House dozer blade kit is top notch....it will be hard to compete with even if someone else produced it.



Jason I was wondering if the Mouse house Leopard 1 Conversion set with the photo etched pieces would be a better choice than the same set without the PE pieces? I'm hoping to put the dozer blade on my C-1, rollers or mine plow with the C-2, and eventually the 2A6M with a plow or rollers too. However I have found that I am missing a few pieces to do an accurate C-1 on the turret roof so I'm hoping that this conversion set will help out that problem. Anyway I appreciate your help
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 02:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm with Andreas on this subject, you can't be serious about a stupid umbrella? I wonder if HB did provide one in their kit, and what about the 3rd. generation side skirts ? From what I gather HB just did the bare neccesaties to utilise most their Leo 2 series, carefully avoiding any up to date "Barracuda-option".



Good for you bringing up the side skirts....it appears from the prelim images of PSM's Leopard 2A6M CAN upgrade kit that new side skirts are included. PSM already produced the 3rd Gen skirts so it would be easy for them to include them.
chnoone
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 06:31 PM UTC
Hey Guys !

I am wondering what would it take to upgrade the existing Bergepanzer 3 "Büffel" kit from PSM to a Canadian one ?
Now that would be a "Canadian" - project which I would be interested in.

Cheers
Christopher
gcdavidson
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Posted: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - 07:25 PM UTC
Slat armour for a start... but you may want to wait as the CAN ARV 2 may look different once they are repatriated from AFG next fall.

I've got the Elite one (actually a pretty decent casting - better than I had come to expect) and first glance, there isn't much to add apart from the protection enhancements.
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 04:42 AM UTC

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Well maybe I'll hold off on my plans to buy the Mouse house dozer blade and just wait for these guys to come out with one for my Leopard C-1.



The Mouse House dozer blade kit is top notch....it will be hard to compete with even if someone else produced it.



Jason I was wondering if the Mouse house Leopard 1 Conversion set with the photo etched pieces would be a better choice than the same set without the PE pieces? I'm hoping to put the dozer blade on my C-1, rollers or mine plow with the C-2, and eventually the 2A6M with a plow or rollers too. However I have found that I am missing a few pieces to do an accurate C-1 on the turret roof so I'm hoping that this conversion set will help out that problem. Anyway I appreciate your help



Are you asking about the Leopard AS1 conversions? I have both conversions sold through Mouse House and the version with the PE is for sure better....higher priced...but better.

What are you missing on the turret roof for your C1?
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 04:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey Guys !

I am wondering what would it take to upgrade the existing Bergepanzer 3 "Büffel" kit from PSM to a Canadian one ?
Now that would be a "Canadian" - project which I would be interested in.

Cheers
Christopher



Well, if PSM is into Canadian kit then they should be able to provide a conversion for their Buffel.

To convert it into a Canadian version as deployed to Afghanistan it needs the hull add on modular armour, slat armour sections, Barracuda on top, and there are changes to arrangment of items on the front as well. If they can do the Barracuda they can do a Canuck Buffel!
ih245dlc
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 04:48 AM UTC

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Well maybe I'll hold off on my plans to buy the Mouse house dozer blade and just wait for these guys to come out with one for my Leopard C-1.



The Mouse House dozer blade kit is top notch....it will be hard to compete with even if someone else produced it.



Jason I was wondering if the Mouse house Leopard 1 Conversion set with the photo etched pieces would be a better choice than the same set without the PE pieces? I'm hoping to put the dozer blade on my C-1, rollers or mine plow with the C-2, and eventually the 2A6M with a plow or rollers too. However I have found that I am missing a few pieces to do an accurate C-1 on the turret roof so I'm hoping that this conversion set will help out that problem. Anyway I appreciate your help



Are you asking about the Leopard AS1 conversions? I have both conversions sold through Mouse House and the version with the PE is for sure better....higher priced...but better.

What are you missing on the turret roof for your C1?



So far I'm missing the wind sensor, I think one of the periscopes for the commander or gunner, and I think the aerial mounts. Oh and I have to figure out something for the infrared spotlight and the cage for it. I'll have to check again with my books.
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 07:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

So far I'm missing the wind sensor, I think one of the periscopes for the commander or gunner, and I think the aerial mounts. Oh and I have to figure out something for the infrared spotlight and the cage for it. I'll have to check again with my books.



Armour Bits is the AS1 conversion with the PE.

Aussie Armour is the AS1 conversion without the PE.

Both include the wind sensor, the periscopes, and the antenna mounts. So if that is all you are looking for get the Aussie Armour set.

I would highly recommend picking up the Real Model PE set for the Leopard C1/C2 for your build.

As far as the other bits....what type of C1 are you building....with the single cage and just the PZB200 or the dual cage with the PZB200 and the IRS100?
bulivyf
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 07:27 AM UTC
Thank PSM. They confirmed that HB CDN Leopard is very bad, because it requires hundreds of updates. Really the only solution is a barracuda, which covers all the details wrong.
It is for modelers if you buy a set from the PSM or the Barracuda makes a scratch-build.
Personally, I think HB is a model for modelers who need to complete this type of collection. Modeler who wants to perfect and detailed model, buy Tamiya Leo, set from Storm Miniatures or PSM (here is missing the front add-on armor, Because HB is bad) and Eduard Slat armor, that is realistic than plastic (It is very thick and looks like a prison gate).
It is clear that what is cheap is not necessarily good.
Miloslav
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 08:11 AM UTC
Now, Milo, before the proverbial photo etched can of worms gets opened here we should look at the fact that model producers like Hobby Boss and Trumpeter and aftermarket producers like yourself with Real Model, and PSM, and Mouse House, and Maple Leaf Models, and the list go on are actually taking the time to produce modern Canadian kits.

For me I have taken a step back over the last while and as much as I love to have the perfect model with every bit of research and details correct many modellers do not choose to do that because simply building and painting a model is fun and satisfying enough.

Remember, it is a model of a real vehicle.....not the actual vehicle shrunken down to 1/35 the size.....it will never be totally as accurate as the real vehicle....close, but not the same.

I would not classify the Hobby Boss kit as cheap or bad....they aren't intentially trying to cheat a modeller out of building a good kit. This is how they produce models and that is acceptable for the many of the modellers who want to build a Canadian Leopard 2A6M CAN.

The Tamiya Leopard is not perfect....it does not have anti-slip surfacing, the late style clamps on the engine air intakes are missing, the side skirts are not 3rd Generation, the driver's hatch does not slide open. But you are right that is better than the HB kit.....but it is also more expensive and many modellers have stated it would be a waste to cover it in Barracuda because of the increased price.

Until someone comes out with an easy, inexpensive, and proven method to produce good looking Barracuda and has the templates for the Leo 2A6M CAN Barracuda the conversion from PSM is very welcome and the first of its kind out on the market. I very much look forward to seeing what Cromwell Models' Barracuda looks like too for the HB kit.

Modelling should be fun....yes, it can be very nitpicky and detail orientated but it is still fun. Is Hobby Boss choosing to produce an out of box Canadian Leopard 2A6M CAN?....YES! So, we should be happy.....and modellers are very grateful that you and PSM are taking the time and effort to correct issues and provide modellers with options to increase the accuracy of the kit.

For many modellers cheap is totally acceptable....and affordable.

I look forward to the many more products that all model and aftermarket producers will be coming out with to help us modellers accomplish our goals!

Happy Modelling Everyone!....from a happy Canuck!
bulivyf
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 08:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Now, Milo, before the proverbial photo etched can of worms gets opened here we should look at the fact that model producers like Hobby Boss and Trumpeter and aftermarket producers like yourself with Real Model, and PSM, and Mouse House, and Maple Leaf Models, and the list go on are actually taking the time to produce modern Canadian kits.

For me I have taken a step back over the last while and as much as I love to have the perfect model with every bit of research and details correct many modellers do not choose to do that because simply building and painting a model is fun and satisfying enough.

Remember, it is a model of a real vehicle.....not the actual vehicle shrunken down to 1/35 the size.....it will never be totally as accurate as the real vehicle....close, but not the same.

I would not classify the Hobby Boss kit as cheap or bad....they aren't intentially trying to cheat a modeller out of building a good kit. This is how they produce models and that is acceptable for the many of the modellers who want to build a Canadian Leopard 2A6M CAN.

The Tamiya Leopard is not perfect....it does not have anti-slip surfacing, the late style clamps on the engine air intakes are missing, the side skirts are not 3rd Generation, the driver's hatch does not slide open. But you are right that is better than the HB kit.....but it is also more expensive and many modellers have stated it would be a waste to cover it in Barracuda because of the increased price.

Until someone comes out with an easy, inexpensive, and proven method to produce good looking Barracuda and has the templates for the Leo 2A6M CAN Barracuda the conversion from PSM is very welcome and the first of its kind out on the market. I very much look forward to seeing what Cromwell Models' Barracuda looks like too for the HB kit.

Modelling should be fun....yes, it can be very nitpicky and detail orientated but it is still fun. Is Hobby Boss choosing to produce an out of box Canadian Leopard 2A6M CAN?....YES! So, we should be happy.....and modellers are very grateful that you and PSM are taking the time and effort to correct issues and provide modellers with options to increase the accuracy of the kit.

For many modellers cheap is totally acceptable....and affordable.

I look forward to the many more products that all model and aftermarket producers will be coming out with to help us modellers accomplish our goals!

Happy Modelling Everyone!....from a happy Canuck!



Jason
I of course understand. Just bothers me sometimes, and I understand the reaction Andreas, many praise the HB and Trumpeter despite all the errors. Often I read posts here about how the company is preparing a super model and the result is then the other. But if an aftermarket company makes a mistake is a problem.
I greatly enjoyed the HB Leo, but I'm very disappointed. Therefore, I buy a Barracuda set by the PSM to this model have been pleased. But now I will become a 100-euro. Even the PE and I'll set an appeal from his prdukce. Perhaps it would be good to sell a slat separately for those modelers who can not do PE slat armor.
Miloslav
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 08:49 AM UTC
I totally agree with you. For me I know companies like Hobby Boss and Trumpeter are hit and miss with their details.

Yup, our wallets take a hit trying to make the kit better.
sauceman
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 09:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Perhaps it would be good to sell a slat separately for those modelers who can not do PE slat armor.

Miloslav



Maybe a resin slat set?


cheers
bulivyf
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 09:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text


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Perhaps it would be good to sell a slat separately for those modelers who can not do PE slat armor.

Miloslav



Maybe a resin slat set?


cheers



Rick
I prefer PE slat because plastic is no realistic and resin is the change in temperature will wiggle. Soldering Slat is quite solid and realistic.
Cheers
Miloslav
Burik
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 10:59 AM UTC
I don't know jack about the Leopard, so the Canadian version is even more of a problem for me. But I love the look of this tank. It was brought up for a moment, but I am not sure answered - from the photos provided thus far, does it look like the Barracuda kit will alleviate the need for buying the upgrade set by Perfect Scale? It seems most of the detail is covered by the camo net.

If I were to look for reference, what is the best book? I tried to find the Tankograd book on Canadian Leopard but my sources do not have it right now. Is that the best, or is there another book that is helpful?

Bob
bulivyf
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 11:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I don't know jack about the Leopard, so the Canadian version is even more of a problem for me. But I love the look of this tank. It was brought up for a moment, but I am not sure answered - from the photos provided thus far, does it look like the Barracuda kit will alleviate the need for buying the upgrade set by Perfect Scale? It seems most of the detail is covered by the camo net.

If I were to look for reference, what is the best book? I tried to find the Tankograd book on Canadian Leopard but my sources do not have it right now. Is that the best, or is there another book that is helpful?


Bob




Bob,
Better is new book which I prepare with Anthony Sewards and Rick Saucier
very good is CD form Ken LeClair.
miloslav
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 11:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I don't know jack about the Leopard, so the Canadian version is even more of a problem for me. But I love the look of this tank. It was brought up for a moment, but I am not sure answered - from the photos provided thus far, does it look like the Barracuda kit will alleviate the need for buying the upgrade set by Perfect Scale? It seems most of the detail is covered by the camo net.

If I were to look for reference, what is the best book? I tried to find the Tankograd book on Canadian Leopard but my sources do not have it right now. Is that the best, or is there another book that is helpful?

Bob



Hi Bob,

To answer your questions..yes and no.....I think the PSM upgrade set will still be required to add detail missing or lacking on the HB kit in regards to the Commander's sight, the hatches, the electronics boxes, the C8 Stowage box, and the antenna mounts for starters.

The Tankograd book is very good...lots of great images....and it is the only book at the current time that also covers the Leopards with Barracuda.

You should for sure pick up Ken LeClair's DVD on the Canadian Leopard 2 series in Afghanistan.
Burik
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 12:24 PM UTC
Thanks guys. I am reaching out to Ken.

Milo, when is the book coming out? I enjoyed the first book. Good photos. Inspiring too.

Bob
chrisj
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 12:59 PM UTC
Hey Jason You made some great points there,thanks. there is one I will disagree with. The Tamiya Leo anti slip is there and its in good scale unlike some of the anti slip modellers are applying after,me included,Tamiya did a good job getting the texture right. I would like to see more models with the anti slip that way.

bulivyf
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Posted: Thursday, November 11, 2010 - 01:07 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks guys. I am reaching out to Ken.

Milo, when is the book coming out? I enjoyed the first book. Good photos. Inspiring too.

Bob



Bob
next year January/February because this year is no good for second book.
Miloslav