Once again it seems that Cromwell is being protected by Armorama staffs. Yesterday a topic was closed because people like myself warned fellow modeler about this company. We are many out here who have not received what we have paid for. Regularly there are topics from people who feel betrayed, so why do Cromwell still get attention and downright protection from Armorama staffs?

Is this a site for model related companies or for the consumers?

Kenneth,

you have my full support. I provided Cromwell the reference material for various models which they recently release but still wait for my samples which I should get in return. Before sending them your money better take it to the bank.

Regards,
Ralph

HI Ken

I think you may find that the other thread was locked due to the fact it went off topic and if you read the thread Jim Rae did in fact warn every body that should it go off topic then it would be locked.

The issues with Cromwell have been gone over many times in the past, and should you wish to deal with this vendor then on your own head be it. There are enough threads on this forum and others that should spark a warning light.

But in no way are we protecting Cromwell models, but we will enforce the policy of trying to keep threads on topic and reserve the right to delete threads and lock topics should we feel that this is not being followed, I would like to think that we keep these forums quite light and do not rule with an iron fist as can be seen on others.

I also believe that in future we will no longer carry news from Cromwell models but our news team will confirm this at some point

cheers

Keith

I thank you for your answer. I do feel sorry to have de-railed an interesting topic on Canadian Leopards, and I do admire Cromwell’s products; however I also feel that a company with this history of betrayal of basic rules of business (like actually fulfilling what you have charged a costumer for) does not deserve any attention from Armorama what so ever.
I would kindly ask the staff of Armorama to take notice that the fact that whenever a topic is started concerning Cromwell it de-rails, is a sign that many of this web page readers (AND paying supporters) have very strong feelings and emotions on Cromwell Models. It’s NOT web hooliganism!

Besides the usual CROWELL related service issuse.....

Any further info on their Leo 2A6 kit ???????

Cheers
Christopher

The story was posted despite the fact that for quite a few months now, i've refused to run any News stories on the company. This was for principally two reasons. Firsty the simple act of covering the company, sadly, to many, implies that we are endorsing them . Secondly, there are a number of people who, despite never having bought anything from them, seem determined to turn EVERY Cromwell-related thread into a flame war (no, no-one who has posted on THIS thread )

Jon posted the News Report and afterwards, asked me if he should delete it I suggested keeping it.

There's NO protection of Cromwell. Simply put, we don't have any dog in this fight. Nor, can we police the 'Net and act against bad traders - that is up to individuals,

Armorama CAN'T be seen as a consumer protection agency.

A little bit off topic, but I forgot to ask in the previous thread. Does anyboby know what is the brown putty that the master maker used to replicate the barracuda camo netting?

Hi!
My opinion is also, why pointig towards Cromwells new products here until the last one of all those modellers who had paid for goods and received nothing, has got back his money OR the kit he paid for. This company is not worth any notice until they return to normal business.

On the other hand, I frequently ask myself why people are willing to spend their money on kits via mail order from them despite all those warnings. Ok, I hear you saying, unique kits, top masters, good quality. See it this way, ordering at them seems to be like gambling. Sometimes you win, most times you don´t.. People sometimes like to gamble...So, don´t complain here when you ordered within the last 2-3 years. Enough warnings are out here for some years now. And, you would also not complain when you lost money during gambling.

So, my statement would be again, NO linking to their products here until everyone customer had been satisfied-with getting money back or the kit that was ordered.

Andreas

Hi everyone, as the new's poster in question (It was me guv'nor! ) I'd just like to clarify that neither myself or anyone else on Armorama Staff support or endorse the company in question.

I ran the story as I have had no personal dealings with this vendor myself (I'm a Russian Soviet Armour man, so British and Canadian kit is out of my usual area), and at the time I was unaware of any problems.

In the spirit of impartiality I posted the story to share news of a new release and to draw it to peoples attention. Armorama is a wide ranging community with a diverse range of interests and backgrounds, and when running news stories I try my best to cater to that wide audience. As for the quality of kits I leave that to you guys to decide upon yourselves, or our reviewers here on Kitmaker.

So yes as Jim mentioned we won't be running news items on this vendor in the future given the circumstances.

Rather than lock the entire thread, isn't there someway to delete or edit the offending post?? Would save alot of work and aggravation.

Scott, unfortunately, every time that Cromwell gets mentioned, despite REPEATED appeals to stay on-message, the same posts get added. So, i'm afraid, until people start respecting the spirit of a What's New thread, they get locked.

It's all academic now. The Embargo on Cromwell is back in place...

It'd also be appreciated if people who WEREN'T affected by Mr. Brown's eccentric business practices, would stop jumping in with their 2 Cents (or dos centimos) and accuse him without knowing what they were actually talking about.

I have all the sympathy in the world for people who have lost money with him - none whatsoever for the mischief-makers..

There are plenty of other vendors that are named on this site and other sites on a regular basis that folks have issues with whether it be customer service or poor product quality.....should the names of those vendors be compiled so they can be struck off the list too?

I think alternatives should be looked at. Wouldn't a more prudent and objective solution be to post new item news about all vendors as "read only" posts?.....it works quite well for PMMS.

Since this is a "commercial site"....as an Armorama staff member has stated.....shouldn't all vendors be treated equally and with objectivity?

"Let the buyer beware".....but it appears "let the vendor beware and be banned" if there are complaints about service.

Does the mainstream news media not report about someone or something because folks think it is unpopular? No.

Well, actually that's not quite true. The editor actually decides what stories to run and what not to run.
They also decide what ads to run and what not to run.

My personal opinion:I think stop listing any Cromwell's news is the right thing to do.Lets think about this:what will the next step be after people seeing something that interested them?Buying/price/availability.

Dave,

I think you missed the point of my post. I was simply suggesting objective alternatives and trying to show that the media attempts for the most part to remain objective and whether a story is good news or bad news it should be presented to the public....I don't consider Armorama to be any part of the media.....this is a commercial site after as was stated by an Armorama staff member in another related post.

I've had problems with AEF Designs...many many others have complained plenty of times....and there has been many complaints for service regarding in stock items and shipping from Great Models Webstore and Lucky Model? Should Armorama remove any mention of their products or sites too. Is that reasonable? No, not at all!

Will future reviews of Cromwell Models products will be rejected as well in anticipation of negative comments?

Maybe Armorama should develop a dedicated forum for modellers to visit and voice their concerns about vendors in a productive mature manner?

Jason I understand clearly what you are saying and would agree with you, but every single post about Cromwell products degenerates into how bad his service is. If I am honest he is the most complained about manufacturer and assuming every complaint against him is by someone who has attempted to purchase from him he should be bigger than DML are. I can only think of one person who generates more complaints or an equal number and they are a vendor, so I believe it is the correct step the News team are taking.

Well, honestly, I don't quite know how to take this comment.

Our News section, is the biggest and most complete on the 'Web. Using a system like that of PMMS, would, in my opinion be doing a grave disservice to the site. We work in a very different manner from PMMS, we've developed our own style and, if I can be forgiven for blowing our own trumpet, NO-ONE has anything close to the page views or site visitors which WE have. Not our figures - those of Google Analytics.

Converting a News Story a line of text and an image or two would certainly be quicker - it'd do nothing for the Site...

If people STILL don't understand it, let me make it as clear as possible:


COVERING A MANUFACTURER IN THE NEWS SECTION (OR IN REVIEWS)SHOULD NEVER BE INTERPRETED AS AN 'ENDORSEMENT' OF THAT COMPANY...

Clear enough?

Don't sugar-coat it, Jim. Tell it like it is.

LMAO! Thanks Tom!

First thing first – this is an awesome site. It’s a coming-home-ritual for me to open my PC go to Armorama and check it out. I do look at PMMS as well but I like Armorama better. That is why I had no consideration when I noticed that you could become a subscriber, and I take proud in being among the first 50 to do so.

I have seen topics being canceled before. In most of them I agree with the decision. As a contributor to topics I too find it irritating when a topic de-rails, and therefore accept it is closed when that happens.
HOWEVER as I said before Cromwell Models IS something out of the ordinary. I have bought models internationally for almost three decades, and done shopping via the internet for more than a decade. In all that time there have been disappointments. Long delivery time, lack of communication and occasionally the wrong kit; but Cromwell Models is the ONLY company who have never responded to ANY contact at all (mail or email). It is the only company which has kept my money even if I asked them to cancel the order due to lack of delivery.
And I am NOT alone. It is claimed that most of those who say they don’t deliver haven’t (or even cannot have) made business with Cromwell Models – have any of you claiming this actually tried so yourself? I find it frustrating that even WITHIN the modeling community we are met with disbelieves. Frankly – it hurts. I am not stupid – I am not naïve; my fault seems to be that I trust that only reliable companies are at Armorama’s news. And now I learn that that seems to annoy the editors?? Did you ever consider why it is only when Cromwell Models is mentioned (that’s your own words) that this happens?? Have you considered what it may (or may not) mean to a company owner to know that his way of business is a repeating topic on such a huge site as Armorama?

BUT! Beside this dear editor you ARE doing a wonderful job at Armorama – keep it up.

Kenneth, let me repeat once again. A few months ago, I made the decision to NOT cover Cromwell in the News Section. A few days ago, one of the News Staff, who wasn't aware of this decision (it had been taken BEFORE he began in the News Dept.), posted a story about Cromwell. We talked about and the following decision has been reached:

There will be NO more News Reports on this Site, until Cromwell's business practices show a marked improvement. It's NOT that we're unsympathetic, we understand perfectly the fustratiion that dealing with company has caused many.

So, the ball is in Cromwell's court - they improve their business practices and we start covering them again. They hand the Retail/Distribution to a reputable company and we'll also reconsider.

At the present moment, we simply don't want to know...

Hello fellow:

The theme of Mr. Brown, it is recurring and we do all the same questions, I am awaiting the arrival of a purchase for 3 months. This is to identify and, so far, Mr. fooled by this

The first question I ask is, why? are always the same people who complain to us if this gentleman brings a new piece every 6 or 8 months we need to continue falling into the same error. This leads to a second question, why we fall more than once?. The only answer I find is that it is very good at the same time very Scammers.

That Armorama publishes, each time taking something out, because I think it just as I feel good that we say it is a scammer.

To finish a thought. Who is more guilty of Gordon Brown, laugh at us, or us?.

Thanks for reading this and sorry for my English, it is quite poor.

Respect,

Mon
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Leer fonéticamente

Jim, I completely understand your rationale and I was only suggesting alternatives. A simply personalized reply with a thank you for making my suggestion and here is the reasoning why Armorama went with what we did would have sufficed. You will do as you deem best for the site. Honestly, I don't care how many page views or site visitors you get on the site.....because as soon as you get viral negativity and off topic comments it becomes meaningless.

Hopefully the actions taken will allow the modellers and vendors on the site to focus on more postive things.


Let the buyer beware....apparently it may take multiple purchases to get that to sink in.

On this subject "The Leo 2A6 CAN in Barracuda" anyone can order one, from competing companies offering the same thing.
Known to have top quality products and proper services, everyone has the alternative (not like with the Chally 2).
Although this kit/theme is not really my piece of cake, I do wonder why some people still want to go through the ordeal with Cromwell on this particular kit ?

..... maybe if go and spend your money somewhere else ..... could be the best and most efficient message to Cromwell Models ?


The choice is yours this time, Gentlemen !

Cheers
Christopher