I am planning on buying aftermarket tracks for my Dragon Hummel. If I get the Fruil metal tracks am I going to have to drill them for a pin to make them "workable?" Which set of Modelkasten workable tracks should I get if I decide to go that route? I haven't used aftermarket tracks before so any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated before I spend more on the tracks than I did on the kit.

Thanks in advance.

Shaun

Hi Shaun
FRIULMODEL track sets come pre-drilled for wire which is supplied. If you go to this site it may be helpful.

http://www.hometown-hobbies.com/friulmodel_track_sets

Be careful I have heard of problems with the fit of some drive sprockets but I'm not sure if it was Dragon or not.
good luck

While the fruil tracks are pre-drilled for the pins, you usually need to use a drill bit to ream out the openings, as the casting often leaves enough white-metal falsh to block the pins. Because the holes are built in, there are alignment issues, and you can drill many links in a minute. Re-drilling a whole set usually takes me less than 30 minutes. I suspect it is less time consuming than cleaning up all the mold marks/connection points on the modelkasten tracks.

Plus, you just can't beat the sag and weight of real metal.

Shaun

I just assembled my first set of Fruil's and used a tip from "Plastic Battle" that works great.

Instead of using the kit supplied wire to join the links, buy a box of staples. The staples that fit most small light weight desk top staplers should work.

Take the staple and straighten out one end. Once you've done that you have a staple that now looks like a capital "L".

Insert the staple into the Fruil link holes. The staples are pretty stiff so If resistance is met, gentle twisting of the staple will usually bore right through the blockage in the Fruil link, (the white metal is pretty soft stuff).

Also, the staples are all the same length, so once you insert the first one in all the way, you know if your subsequent staple links are in far enough or not. Once the links are assembled, snip off the remaining portion of the staple, (the bottom portion of the "L"), and add a drop of CA to fix your work.

I have also assembled ModelKasten ---they are nice--- but I would not want to do them again as they are so delicate and susceptible to breakage during construction and application to the vehicle.

I would go with Fruils on any Russian or German vehicle as their weight gives the tracks the realistic sag seen on the real vehicles.

Just my two cents. Thanks.

Steve

ps: I assembled two sets of Fruils with approximately 83 links per side, and did not have to use a drill once --thanks to this staple method.

Shaun,
Check out this link to a thread about this subject a couple of months back over on Missing Links.


I use the wire that comes with the links most of the time and have had no problems. The only time I have used something else is when I have assembled sets of Tiger II battle tracks, they are so wide compared to some others I find it easier to use brass rod

HTH
Mike

Let's try this again, the link didn't work on the last post, hopefully this one will.

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/thread?forumid=47211&messageid=1051675002

Shaun,the Friul Model tracks fit perfectly over the DML sprockets Also what I do I'll build up say 30 links,then use a small drop of 5 minute epoxy resin to seal the pins in As long as you are careful with the epoxy,the tracks will remain workable
Also when the tracks are all assembled be sure to wash them in soapy water and rinse them off That gets the mold release agent off

FWIW Shaun,

Did mine in Modelkasten a few weeks ago. No fit problem, no pains (I did use tow boxes) and was just the same MK workable routine.

Dave

They're both nice.. but I'd go with Friul's for a couple reasons

1. They're Sturdy.. MK are delicate..
2. You get lot's of extras.. good for mistakes and spare tracks.. MK's you get no extra's..
3. The horns are on the Tracks.. with MK's you have to put the horn on each link
4. You get the Sag...

I used the supplied Wire on my Pz IV H.. worked fine for me.. really enjoyed assembling the tracks.. better than cleaning sink holes on DML Inividual links...

Enjoy!

Having only built one set of fruils, I cannot be considered an expert, but one thing I can say for sure.... fruils are "how to make tracks for dummies", to use the title of the computer books.
The one and only set of link for link tracks I have ever made and it went hassle free, no problems and they look the business! Highly recommended. The weight of the finished model, the natural sag and the simplicity cannot be beaten!

Thanks for all of the great tips, tricks, and dare I say, links. Fruil it is. I'll order them tommorrow and let everyone know how I make out.

Thanks again,

Shaun

Fruil tracks are on the way. Thanks everyone for giving me the inspiration. This Hummel is going to a contest contestant, somewhere. Thanks again for the tips and hints.

Shaun

Fruil all the way. I have now purchased AM tracks from Modelkasten and Fruil, not to mention WWII productions. If you want to drive yourself crazy cleaning the tracks and bits, gluing the guide horns and then the tiny pins, which have a propensity to come off when trying toi cut the applicator off. AHHHHHH. Then you also risk applying too much glue and gluing the links solid. Don't do it. Its madness. I recently purchased the fruil set for my Hornisse and they have been a dream. I estimate that it took about 10% of the time that my modelkasten Late panther tracks took, they have beautiful weight and great detail. I can also buy them about CAN$2 cheaper than Modelkasten.

BTW I do not have any financial interest in Fruilmodelismo whether direct or indirect. I am just enthusiastic about the product.

Nick

Ok, to finalize this discussion (or not), Friul is thé stuff. Quick, easy (not really cheap), and very effective. I used the early tiger 1 tracks, and they are a dream! the good part is (I did not glue the pins) you can easily remove the tracks for painting.

Hi. Only warning I could give about Fruil tracks is that once you have tried them, you won't want anything else, esp. for the German and Russian vehicles. Have used several sets down through the years and I knew from the very first try that there is nothing better than these just to represent the weight along, wich come automatically and can be varied depending on how many links you wish to use.

Only area I can think of where they may not be worth the expense is if you are modeling a set of tracks that have been blown apart. Then you can do that just as well with the link to link plastic stuff.

Take care, sgirty

Friul tracks, there is no substitute
great looks- realistic sag, good coloring ( start with Blacken- It)
Easy to assemble- (aside from those ATL-22 tracks- they will drive you mad! )


Peter

I don't really see what's the big deal with these types of tracks, what's wrong with the vinyl ones supplied in the kits? I mean, for the cost of the aftermarket tracks, you can buy a new kit! I can't stand individual track sets, nothing lines up, and it's just too much of a headache. People will probably say that the vinyl tracks don't sag, but if glued down right, you can get the same effect. Same goes with weathering. Not against the aftermarket tracks, I just think that the money spent can go to better things.

KellyZak-

I guess it boils down to what you think looks good. If you are happy with the vinyl tracks, that is perfectly OK.

I happen to use aftermarket tracks on about all of the tanks I do now... Once I tried a set of Friuls I was hooked... I can't help it now. I agree that for thirty bucks - you could buy another really nice kit. At least in my opinion though - once I do spend 30 bucks on a model I want to be totally happy with the way it looks in the end. I guess that means I only build half the models I can afford - but I have stacks of kits waiting to be built, so I would rather get each one the way I wanted it to look.

I am not an OOTB builder - so if I go to the trouble of adding etch to the kit it would seem like a waste to me to not replace the tracks as well- at least on German and Russian stuff. I do agree that the newer Tamiya tracks are pretty good, and can be made to look decent - but trust me, once you try a set of Friuls on a kit - you won't be as happy with the way the rubberband style tracks look. Just my opinion-

Jeff

I agree with everyone else...it took me a while to warm up to spending another $30 on a kit, but once I did, I was totally hooked on Fruil. And believe me, I am a TOTAL amateur to modeling.

One thing, I use BLACKEN IT to color the tracks, and RUSTALL where/when appropriate. Not a huge fan of the BALCKEN IT as the results were inconsistent, and some of the white metal would not color. I heard about a solvent calle INSTANT IRON, but could not locate it anywhere...anyone have any thoughts on how to color the tracks?

Hi. You all might want to check with R and J Products out in Washinton State. The last time I bought a set they were $26. www.rjproducts.com

I figure since I don't use very much PE and build mostly OOTB, I'll put the extra cash out in the white metal track links. It's all in what a person whats and just how detailed they want to go, as to whether they opt for certain after-market items for the models.

One very good thing about all of the different things offered by the little industries is that I do believe they have put a lot of pressure on the major kit makers to build better and more detailed models than we would have seen otherwise. So whether you use the after market items or not, this has helped us all in the long run.

Take care, sgirty

Oatster
Either here or over on ML someone mentioned soaking the Friul tracks in vinegar before using Blacken-It. The vinegar is supposed to remove any oils, etc from the white metal- allow to dry, then use Blacken-It- you should get better results.

I have not tried this method yet- furiously trying to get 2 other models done for the Campaigns, but next on the workbench is a Tiger II with the Friul tracks to go with it.

Peter

Thanks Peter..I will give that a shot as I just finished putting together a set for my Panther II and they should be applied within a week.

Not to sound like a Fruil groupie, but for the record, I've been upgrading my older kits with some techniques I've learned lately. I have a Dragon Jadgtiger (late), and a Tamiya Panther G (late) and a Jadgpanther (late) that I plan on refitting with Fruil tracks. The Dragon tracks are nice enough, however, it was my first model after a 15yr hiatus, and the vinyl Tamiya tracks are just terrible. Not only isn't there any sag, there is no slack at all and they are stretched horribly. I had to put the skirts on just to hide them. Anyway, they will all be getting the Fruil treatment soon enough.


Thanks again for your help.

Howdy Oatster,

The treatment you're looking for is called 'Rail Weathering Solution' manufactured by Micro Engineering Company, out of Fenton, MO. It comes in a rather large, 3 fl.oz., plastic bottle outfitted with a child-proof lid. In it's raw state it has the appearance of blue-tinted windshield washer fluid.
The solution changes the colour of the metal tracks via a chemical reaction that literally alter's the metal itself thru an acidic interaction.
The weathering process goes something like this:

A) First pour some of the liquid into a plastic cup (big enough to fully immerse one set of tracks).

B) Allow the set of tracks to remain immersed for between 5 to 10 minutes ( I personally prefer 7 to 8 minutes) This duration of time determines exactly how dark you want the metal tracks to get.

C) Remove the tracks from the solution after your preferred amount of time. Immediately wipe/dry off the track set, making sure you wipe off as much of the solution as you can (otherwise the chemical reaction continues irregardless).

D) Viola! Your tracks are done..............simple huh?

Now at this point you can begin you washes, pastels, muds, sludges, etc.

Hope this helps.

Tread.

Oh....BTW. I'm a very BIG Fruil fan! In my opinion, I would rather do one model right, than several 'kinda' right......just me.

I haven't tried Fruil tracks (yet!) but I do know that the Sherman tracks from Modelkasten are a major pain in the fundament, it took three weeks to make the tracks for my DML Firefly and there weren't enough links in the kit, so I had to use some of the kit's original links to make up the gap. I made a major boo-boo on the tracks on my Academy Panzer IV, when I was trying to get the ends to connect but I'm not getting any aftermarket stuff as I only paid a tenner for the kit and it doesn't seem worth it to me

Howdy simonrw,

I understand. This topic has been placed on the table before. The topic of just how much is too much when it comes to Time, After Market accessories, Aluminum barrels, P.E., etc, etc, etc.
I guess the only answer that makes sense, is the one inside your head.
Some people feel that the expense of Fruil tracks is not justified...I understand. I actually feel the same way about Jordi Rubio turned aluminum barrels. Sorry, can't justify the cost in MOST cases. I can use the kit supplied barrel and even the experts are none the wiser.
I guess for all of us there are things that make sense, and things that don't.
I will say that the one thing I take quite seriously is my time spent modeling (since I have so little). So, I tend to make sure that the final result will be worthy of the time spent (which is generally significant, considering the amount of time I spend on research, AM acquisition, etc.

Tread.