Michigan, United States
Joined: July 17, 2010
KitMaker: 258 posts
Armorama: 208 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 - 04:42 PM UTC
Hello,
I just got back in the hobby after a 10 year break and I am working on my first kit for a campaign, the workhorse one that is due at the end of the month. This is my first time really weathering a model and I am trying chipping for the first time. I think I over did it. The couple of photos I saw had the paint restored so it was hard to get a sense of how much to chip. Also based on what I read the DAK tanks were basically sandblast out in the desert, so I went big on the chipping since a lot of the earlier Panzer IVs were painted in the field over the panzer gray. Let me know what you think. Thanks.
Jeff
Georgia, United States
Joined: January 31, 2010
KitMaker: 2,191 posts
Armorama: 1,814 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 - 05:16 PM UTC
Jeff,
It's not that I would say it's too much. It that's its too inconsistent. You've got lots of huge chips on the upper hull, but the running gear, tracks, etc, all look brand new! That area would be getting the roughest treatment as it got sandblasted.
Also, I think if you'll look at examples of other modeler's chipping, you'll see much smaller, fine chips. You seem to have wholesale paint peeling going on. The areas right next to your large chips show zero wear. I think you'd at least see some scuffing, smaller chips, etc.
That said, if this is your first... don't worry about it! Being a perfectionist on your first kit is a waste of time. Get it done, enjoy it, and get to the next one! When you've done 3 or 4, you'll look back at this one and see how your skills have really improved!
Good luck.
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Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2011 - 01:08 AM UTC
Jeff-- what brand and color did you use to get the Afrika Corps yellow? I think you are too heavy with the chipping on the front fenders, but she is a nice looking vehicle.
Well done
DJ
DJ Judge
COL (R), USA
"Tanker Boots do not a Tanker Make."
#047
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: September 13, 2005
KitMaker: 2,016 posts
Armorama: 1,187 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2011 - 04:58 AM UTC
Hi Jeff
Gota agree with Jesse on the size and incosistancy of the chips
mines far from perfect ,but it might help you out some
http://aeroscale.kitmaker.net//features/1331put so smaller splots of yellow in the grey to break them up,add some dust and it will look great
HTH
Andy
Major Caryle,
"Shall we have a go at the far end now,sir?"
Lt Colonel "Johnny" Frost,
"Having a go,is hardly text book terminology Harry"
Major Caryle,
"But you'll let us try sir?"
A Bridge Too Far
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Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2011 - 05:43 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Jeff
Gota agree with Jesse on the size and incosistancy of the chips
mines far from perfect ,but it might help you out some
http://aeroscale.kitmaker.net//features/1331
put so smaller splots of yellow in the grey to break them up,add some dust and it will look great
HTH
Andy
Andy-- outstanding workmanship. How did you get the rust effect on the muffler? What brand and color did you use for the green uniforms?
thanks
DJ
DJ Judge
COL (R), USA
"Tanker Boots do not a Tanker Make."
#047
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: September 13, 2005
KitMaker: 2,016 posts
Armorama: 1,187 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2011 - 06:19 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Hi Jeff
Gota agree with Jesse on the size and incosistancy of the chips
mines far from perfect ,but it might help you out some
http://aeroscale.kitmaker.net//features/1331
put so smaller splots of yellow in the grey to break them up,add some dust and it will look great
HTH
Andy
Andy-- outstanding workmanship. How did you get the rust effect on the muffler? What brand and color did you use for the green uniforms?
thanks
DJ
Hi DJ
thanks for the comments ,I don't want to hijack Jeffs thread
The Zost was done by mixing "baking soda" with the paint to give the texture,or you could use talcum powder as a less gritty option,as for the uni colours ,I really can't remember! I think they where mixed from different Tamiya paints ,with some MIG pigs dry brushed over them
Happy to help
Andy
Major Caryle,
"Shall we have a go at the far end now,sir?"
Lt Colonel "Johnny" Frost,
"Having a go,is hardly text book terminology Harry"
Major Caryle,
"But you'll let us try sir?"
A Bridge Too Far
Lottery Campaign "Oh de Vichy"
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: February 03, 2009
KitMaker: 367 posts
Armorama: 326 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2011 - 04:04 PM UTC
Hey, I think it looks great! The DAK yellow looks spot on!
When I first saw the tank, I didn't think the grey was chippings so much as the paint peeling.
I remember reading a few places that a lot of paint came off when the DAK first arrived. I guess the intial attempts were hastey and didn't last long, until better supplies came.
Some might disagree, maybe you could still do small chipping with a dark brown. This would simulate actual chipping through the grey paint and show exposed metal.
1) I use a very fine sponge (the stuff used to pack computer parts is great)
2) Dip it in the dark paint.
3) Press the sponge pretty hard into a paper towel so there is almost nothing left (otherwise, when you dab the sponge on the model, too much paint will go all over)
4) dab the sponge lightly in the desired area
This technique gives you A LOT of control over the chipping. I like it better than using a brush to do the chipping.
Feedback from others??? Should he do some small dark chipping?
Michigan, United States
Joined: July 17, 2010
KitMaker: 258 posts
Armorama: 208 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2011 - 05:02 PM UTC
@Jesse, thanks for the feed back I wasn't sure how beat up the running gear and the lower hull would get. I just know from other types of wear that hard angles wear first and I started there. I agree about being a perfectionist, it is what stopped me before, never finished anything because it wasn't perfect. I tried to do more with the tracks but they are the old Tamiya rubber band style ones that were a pain to work with this time. I gave up after the fight it took to put them on.
@DJ, the DAK yellow is Vallejo Model Air Dark Yellow #71025 straight from the bottle, airbrushed with a cheap airbrush from Harbor Freight. And thanks for the comments and feed back.
@Andy, very nice looking Panzer, I see what you mean about the size and location. Maybe I will add some yellow back in and hit the lower hull really quick. What do you recommend for dust? Just Pigments? I was thinking of mixing up some really light buff paint and hitting it about 12 to 14 inches away and then apply pigments. Thank you.
@Mark, thanks for the feedback. I thought about adding in some dark red or brown for the primer coat but was a little unsure if I was doing it right. I did try the brush technique I read about first but next time I might try the packing foam or I read about using those Scotch Brite Pads as well. I was thinking that it would be some combo of paint peeling and chipping on these early models. I really wasn't sure what I was doing and just went for it.
Thank you all for the feedback it is very helpful. This is the most I have every done to a model, I usually just wash and dry brush it. Have a lot of first with this old kit and I am glad to be close to done so I can try the next one.
Connecticut, United States
Joined: March 24, 2007
KitMaker: 317 posts
Armorama: 259 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 03, 2011 - 08:09 PM UTC
What a great subject for chipping! I love your choice of colors but must say that the chipping is a bit out of scale. This can be toned down by using either a sponge -or- fine tip brush ( or both ) to bring your base color back into the chips. I hope this is helpfull.
Iain Hamilton
www.migjimenez.com
Michigan, United States
Joined: July 17, 2010
KitMaker: 258 posts
Armorama: 208 posts
Posted: Friday, February 04, 2011 - 04:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
What a great subject for chipping! I love your choice of colors but must say that the chipping is a bit out of scale. This can be toned down by using either a sponge -or- fine tip brush ( or both ) to bring your base color back into the chips. I hope this is helpfull.
Iain, thanks for the feedback. I think I will try to soften up the large areas with a sponge this weekend and see how it goes. I will post updates.
#047
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: September 13, 2005
KitMaker: 2,016 posts
Armorama: 1,187 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 12:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
@Andy, very nice looking Panzer, I see what you mean about the size and location. Maybe I will add some yellow back in and hit the lower hull really quick. What do you recommend for dust? Just Pigments? I was thinking of mixing up some really light buff paint and hitting it about 12 to 14 inches away and then apply pigments. Thank you.
Hey Jeff
Thanks mate
,yes do just that and it will look superb
Andy
Major Caryle,
"Shall we have a go at the far end now,sir?"
Lt Colonel "Johnny" Frost,
"Having a go,is hardly text book terminology Harry"
Major Caryle,
"But you'll let us try sir?"
A Bridge Too Far
Lottery Campaign "Oh de Vichy"
Michigan, United States
Joined: July 17, 2010
KitMaker: 258 posts
Armorama: 208 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 06:12 PM UTC
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: July 29, 2010
KitMaker: 662 posts
Armorama: 457 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 05, 2011 - 08:12 PM UTC
your chipping is too "placed" right now. you were along the right lines originally. chipping shouldnt be done just for the sake of having it done. also, shouldnt cover the model completely on the vehicle your doing. chipping is going to be present on heavy wear areas.
as it sits right now, it looks like you took a sponge with gray paint on it and dabbed it all over the model. chipping shouldnt be done just for the sake of chipping. top really wont have chips like you have it. the front, will be heavily damaged. but, the part the extrude out further should show more wear than the rest. the front, you dabbed a sponge all over and went around the anchor points.
same thing with the lower hull. you went around all of the extruding parts.
paint wouldnt have been that chipped, even in the desert. but, edges and high traffic areas would.
http://mymilitaryminiatureworld.blogspot.com/
Michigan, United States
Joined: July 17, 2010
KitMaker: 258 posts
Armorama: 208 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 06, 2011 - 02:37 AM UTC
Jesse thanks for your feedback I can see your point. Might just touch it up and move on, and try again on the next model.
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: July 29, 2010
KitMaker: 662 posts
Armorama: 457 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 06, 2011 - 03:33 AM UTC
some additional weathering may also help take the focus off of the chips. so, i would also suggest practicing weathering and filtering on this one as well then. that is totally up to you.
http://mymilitaryminiatureworld.blogspot.com/
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: December 13, 2004
KitMaker: 2,192 posts
Armorama: 1,615 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 06, 2011 - 04:43 AM UTC
Jeff,
It's not all bad news. Some of the early DAK vehicles were camouflaged with mud rather than paint (there are photos of this actually being done in "Panzer Colours"), which dried then wore off very badly and in random patches. If you dry brush your high spots with Panzergrau, then give it a good going over with weathering powders it should look Ok. If you look at period photos, the original markings were usually retained with a dark grey background when painted with mud - sorry this is a bit late for you as you have already got the transfers on.
Even the paint seems to have worn badly, the sandstorms played havoc with overpaints.
"Lord Raglan wishes the cavalry to advance rapidly to the front, follow the enemy, and try to prevent the enemy carrying away the guns. Troops of Horse Artillery may accompany. French cavalry is on your left. Immediate. Airey."
Michigan, United States
Joined: July 17, 2010
KitMaker: 258 posts
Armorama: 208 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 06, 2011 - 06:19 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Jeff,
It's not all bad news. Some of the early DAK vehicles were camouflaged with mud rather than paint (there are photos of this actually being done in "Panzer Colours"), which dried then wore off very badly and in random patches. If you dry brush your high spots with Panzergrau, then give it a good going over with weathering powders it should look Ok. If you look at period photos, the original markings were usually retained with a dark grey background when painted with mud - sorry this is a bit late for you as you have already got the transfers on.
Even the paint seems to have worn badly, the sandstorms played havoc with overpaints.
Thanks Steve, that good information. Might just hit the hit spots with the dry brush, soften up some of the chipping, hit it with the filter again and use some pigments.
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: March 12, 2010
KitMaker: 791 posts
Armorama: 592 posts
Posted: Monday, February 07, 2011 - 08:32 AM UTC
That's not too bad, but the hull underneath the fenders rarely chipped like that. You're on your way, but you aren't finished
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Michigan, United States
Joined: July 17, 2010
KitMaker: 258 posts
Armorama: 208 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 05:23 PM UTC
Thank you everyone for the advice. I hit the model again with some weathering to tone everything down and I plan to add some pigments and dust to it and call it finished. I know it is far from perfect but if I keep trying to fix it, the worse it keeps looking and I am okay with how it is now. I will take what I have learned and apply it to the LAV I am building.
Thanks again everyone.
Jeff
Georgia, United States
Joined: January 31, 2010
KitMaker: 2,191 posts
Armorama: 1,814 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 01:16 AM UTC
I think it got better than the first iteration. And toning it down with the other weathering will only make it better.
There is no 'exact' way to do this stuff. Just have fun, and learn what makes the effects that you want and like.
Good luck with the LAV!
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Michigan, United States
Joined: July 17, 2010
KitMaker: 258 posts
Armorama: 208 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 04:28 PM UTC
Thanks Jesse. I hope to have it all wrapped in the few days.
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: January 29, 2011
KitMaker: 14 posts
Armorama: 13 posts
Posted: Monday, February 14, 2011 - 05:54 AM UTC
Great model, just wondering shouldn't there be at least 3 different chiping colours,
Steel, primer.top coat. or did axis tanks have just a top coat? either way would like to see a bit of rust on the chiping spots chipping tends to promote rusting and blistering.
Michigan, United States
Joined: July 17, 2010
KitMaker: 258 posts
Armorama: 208 posts
Posted: Monday, February 14, 2011 - 03:43 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Great model, just wondering shouldn't there be at least 3 different chiping colours,
Steel, primer.top coat. or did axis tanks have just a top coat? either way would like to see a bit of rust on the chiping spots chipping tends to promote rusting and blistering.
Thank you for the feedback.
No there was a primer coat but with a lot of the early DAK armor the yellow was painted over the panzer grey and usually in the field. So there could be four layers I guess.
