WHYYY!!!!! I keep finding out stuff i need to change! And i can't believe i put that snorkel cover on backwards! Oh well, more stuff to take apart and redo. GRRRRR.....

I did notice that there's a boxy section missing on the snorkel cover, so at least i can deal with that at the same time....

I did also just notice, dragon mould the hinge for the rear mudguard into the rear end. I'll be needing to cut those off too...

Sean,

you also miss part n° 23. Take a look on my comments on a another build

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/133774&ord=&page=2

HTH

spit

Sean,

Thank you for posting your build it looks like your almost finished. Fortunately, depending on how accurate you would like your model to be it wouldn’t take very much on your part to go back and modify / add / remove to depict your vehicle as Nr. 11 as you only have a primer coat over your big cat. As far as the armored blowtorch access port cover for the coolant heater is concerned I would just leave it alone. There may be other photographs of Nr. 11 that may surface but for now there is only one showing the rear of the vehicle and like Wouter, mentions the photograph is rather blurry. However there is just enough showing in the photograph to indicate that there maybe an armored cover installed below the left hand exhaust armor cover? Should this be the case then there exists the high probability that this KT may have been produced in February 44’ with assigned Fgst.Nr. 280005? In my opinion based on the photograph I would guess that it is, but that’s just me.

What rear deck screen material did you use over the intake and exhaust openings? The screens do not appear to be those found in the photo-etch set provided with the kit or are they?




Remove only the fender rods that are showing between the fender hinges. The fender hinges were welded directly to the rear armor plate and were hard to remove as seen in many photographs with the fenders missing on these big cats. Below are two photographs of Nr. 02 and Nr. 11 without the rear mudguards. It appears that there wasn’t any Zimmerit paste applied below the mudguard hinges. However, there is Zimmerit paste applied to the edges of the sloped armor side extensions for the towing shackles. The Zimmerit paste on the edges is hardly noticeable on the photographs but it is there. Of note: the photograph of Nr. 11 showing the rear side of the vehicle is the only one that I know of to date that I mentioned above.





In an earlier posting of mine here (above) dated ‘Tuesday, May 10, 2011 – 07:07 PM BST’ I provided Wouter with a link to Marco Sari’s KT build log. Read through that build log and carefully check out the photographs. All of the information that you’ll need to update your build is there. Hope this helps. Looking forward to seeing more of your KT.

Wouter, apology for slightly high jacking your post, my bad!
-Eddy

Brian,

The prototype King Tiger II was assigned Fgst.Nr.V1, as was V2 and V3. The series production vehicles were assigned Fgst.Nr’s starting with 280001. The remaining V series of vehicles (test) were taken from the production series and assigned a V along with the last number(s) of the assigned 280000 chassis number. For example V6 is Fgst.Nr.280006. I only know of V6, V8, V9 and V12 as per the information in the Jantz & Hilary L. Doyle book ‘Germany’s Tiger Tanks, VK45.02 to Tiger II’ by Thomas L. Hope this is of help to you.

Thanks for the heads up on the rear deck screens I will check online for photos of the LionRoar stainless steel screens.

-Eddy

Hi All,

well, this thread has become a wealth of information. Needless to say, i'll be trying to make mine as close to correct as possible. So thanks for the heads up about the rear tow shackle brackets.

No aftermarket screens used, the engine deck mesh is from the kit.

Sean, just to be clear the part 23 youmiss is from the snorkel cover

a pic

I did always think it was missing a bit there,

but fortunately, i pride myself in my scratchbuilding skills. Do you have any pics of the missing bit? I don't have that last part (threw out my emptyish Panther D box like a muppet...)

Hehe, i knew that qualification in modelmaking would come in handy some time.

I'm also considering taking a brave step and getting etch brass skirts for my KT. The plastic ones just dont look right. A big step for me seeing how i've never used the stuff before...

@BrassNautilus - Brian,

The first two photographs that you posted are of an initial production King Tiger and these photographs are of the same vehicle. The second two photographs are of Fgst.Nr.V1 the prototype King Tiger. I haven’t seen any photographs of ’02 from the front. ’02 is one of the five initial production King Tigers allocated to Panzer Lehr (PzKp.(Fkl) 316) and would not have had the notch on the front glacis plate in front of the Radio Operator’s periscope. This notch did not appear on the production series King Tiger’s until April ’44.

Fgst.Nr.V1 the prototype King Tiger had two right hand side exhaust mount armor covers with an extended casting for fitting the engine hand crank support guide (one of the unique identifying features on this vehicle). All vehicles produced after the V1, had a right and left side armor exhaust mount cover. Incidentally, the reflector is mounted just below the left side armor cover for the track tension adjuster.

Thank you for posting these photographs especially the first one. I have not had the opportunity of coming online lately and also because of doing some research on the first two photographs that you posted. I will post again to add my input on these two photographs as they bring light to a question concerning the exhaust stacks and cross country tracks – not the tracks in the photograph, these are transport tracks.

@seanmoriarty - Sean,

Note the Zimmerit paste on the edges of the sloped side armor extensions for the towing shackles. Wouter, posted a photograph on page 1 depicting this feature on his build. And thanks for the reply concerning the screens on the rear deck plate. About the photo-etch track guards: The Griffon Model photo-etch set for the side armor track guards would be the appropriate set to get, as these don’t have the mounting boltholes in the center portion on the fifth (rear most) track guards. The kit track guards have these extra mounting boltholes. I am not sure when these came into production?

-Eddy

Brian,

Yes, I could see where this caused you a bit of confusion. I remember reading through the text and then discovering that details in the drawings did not match either the text or photographs. For the most part the drawings are correct but not always and you almost have to rely on the text if a photograph is unavailable.

Since you have the book with you I’ll give you an example. Read the text on the necessary modifications required to install the Entfernungsmesser 1.6 R (PZ.) range finder in the Tiger II turret on page 149 – 6.5.8. Range Finder Mounted In The Turret. Then check the drawing on pages 150 – 151, the proposed July ’45 Tiger II. You’ll note that the height of turret matches the other Henschel turret drawings in the book and it should, according to the text, be 25mm higher to accommodate for the range finder.

I know not much, but if your building to the drawings you’ll have to make some adjustments for the side views and forward roof plate. I don’t have a 35th scale CMD proposed July ’45 Tiger II resin turret but I’ve seen it on a few models and it looks correct (wish I could get my hands on one). There are other publications that are extremely notorious for either leaving out details or adding the wrong details to the drawing.

There are some other things wrong in that drawing too. Perhaps a subject for another day.

-Eddy

Brian,

Thanks for posting the line drawings with your red and green reference lines. I had previously noticed on the drawings that the turret’s center roof plate had been lengthened in the front leaving a noticeable gap between the close defense weapon and the forward turret roof plate. And until I saw the lines that you had drawn across the turrets sides I hadn’t noticed that there is in fact at least a 25mm difference in the height on the forward lift ring as opposed to the turret without the lengthened center roof plate. I had misunderstood what I had read because it states in the text that the turrets roof would need to be raised 25mm and I took that as being the overall height of the turret as it was not specific about which roof plate would need to be raised. After careful analysis of the forward turret roof plate and lengthened center turret roof plate angles I found that it is actually just a little higher than the required 25mm’s needed to mount the range finder in the turret. Very clever of those engineers involved with that project.

Now that I know how they went about this I can easily modify a series production turret without having to go out and purchase the CMD turret. Still some of the drawings in the book are missing details or have them in the wrong locations – the prototype King Tiger drawings being one of the drawings. Thanks so much for posting the photographs of the proposed July ’45 King Tiger (Nice job!). The entire rear deck with the multi engine access hatch covers can be cannibalized from either of the Trumpeter E-50 or E-75 kits, as they identical to the drawings and your kit. This will be a big help to me in getting this project launched.

As for the hooks on the loader's hatch, by this you mean the four weld marks near the corners on top of the hatch? No one knows what these were for but they are in most photographs of late produced King Tigers - Jentz and Doyle left this detail out of the drawings!

-Eddy

Brian, Wouter and Sean,

Ok, now that I’m here let’s get back to the above first two photographs that Brian posted. After some evenings of researching through my small library and photographs of the five initial series production King Tigers allocated to 1.s.Pz.Kp (Fkl), along with the first two photographs that Brian posted, I was able to establish that at least one of the first three January ‘44 series production King Tigers (Fgst.Nr.280001 – 280003) was fitted with a stacked exhaust baffle system similar to that of the Tiger I. It appears that the first two photographs are of the same tank, that being an initial production vehicle. The oval shaped armor guard for the coolant heater (introduced in February ’44) is missing on this vehicle as is the notch on the glacis plate forward of the radio operators periscope. Both the forward and rear side armor extension faces have not been modified with the cutouts for adding additional clearance when using the C-hooks. There is a bit of shadowing in the photograph on the turrets left side below the commanders cupola where the welded view port resides – would be a flat circular plate somewhat recessed to the curved turret side armor plate (at least the first 16 turret bodies had this feature). The curved front fenders and the covered exhaust systems with baffles. All indications are that this is one of the first three series initial production King Tigers produced in January ’44.

What is interesting are the exhaust covers and baffles. These items are not well documented in the Jentz and Doyle book ‘VK45.02 to Tiger II’ (page 68) making it difficult to know for sure if these were the original type of covers and baffles or were all introduced at around the same time together with the curved exhaust pipes. Here’s why, note the four bolts to secure the baffle covers as opposed to the five bolts in the line drawing in the Jentz & Doyle book for the first produced King Tiger (pages 66 & 67). Also, the height of the exhaust covers is higher than the edge of the rear armor plate (correct per the drawings). There is a photograph of an initial production King Tiger, also produced in January ‘44 on page 73 but with five bolts each to secure the baffle covers but with short exhaust covers. And of course lets not forget the curved exhaust pipes with the exhaust covers. I have a theory about the exhaust system concerning the bolt patterns and tall and short exhaust covers, but that would be pure speculation on my part with perhaps doing more harm than good and without any evidence to back it with, already enough of that going around!

Note also that there are 10 sets of welded rectangular double threaded plates and a single square plate at the rear most position for the bolts to secure the fenders along the edge of the sloped armor sides. Below on the same page is another initial production King Tiger but this time with only 9 sets of welded rectangular double threaded plates and a single square plate for the fenders. I can’t see these plates on the first two photographs that you posted. Also, these items are not listed in the book. Because these details lack better or no documentation it is difficult at best to determine with any certainty at what point they were introduced into production. There are photographs of turret Nr.11 and 02 without any center rectangular double threaded plates on the fifth (last) track guard station. I don’t have any photographs of turret Nr.10, 12, or 13 showing this area or of the rear exhaust covers with curved pipes or with baffles? As for the covered exhaust system with the baffles, I don’t know. Until more photographs surface of these early vehicles it wouldn’t be incorrect to model at least two of these vehicles with the covered exhausts systems with either the four or five bolt pattern baffle covers.

-Eddy

Bill, i've just had a look at the link you posted near the start of this topic and spotted that the KT with turret number 13 doesn't have any zimmerit. That makes it a interest point to me, since I believe only the prototypes and maybe the two KT's sent to have recovery methods tested didn't get it. Any idea where this KT came from????

Well, it seems like some nice conversation has been going on here

Anyway:
I did some spraying on this little Tiggy last week saturday and today:

I sprayed most of the interior and the tranny and trannycover in Tamiya Hull Red, mixed with a little bit of X-22. The upper sides of the interior got a bit of Vallejo Off White mixed with some little bit of different brown to try to simulate some Elfenbein color. The paint could set for a week and today I painted some details like the radio, seats, steering well etc.

Now, the interior isn't really tidy painted and I could have added some wiring to the radio and extra detailing to the inside, but since pretty much nothing will be seen, I didn't bother to do so. Next step is sealing up the interior and doin' some washes. No real chipping though, since this Tiger didn't last very long.

I also painted the wheels and lower hull already in a mix of Tamiya Dark Yellow, Buff and Brown Earth. This color is a bit darker than the one I'll be using on the upper hull. The tracks got some paint too, but no photos of them.




That's it for the paintjob

Also, some time ago Spit send me a PM mentioning that Voyager Models had some new goodies which were interesting: the snorkel cover and exhausts for an Initial Tiger II...so I immediately went to the Luckymodel site and scored a set

Cheers

It's my impression that these welds are actually the ends of the four brackets on the inside of the hatch that hold the four interior hatch locking arms. I believe that the hatch casting had the slots for these brackets molded in it to simplify production. During manufacturing, the brackets were slotted into these holes and welded in place.

These same four exterior welds are also visible on some photos of the Tiger I Ioader's hatch, as well (IIRC, on both the early and later hatch designs, but the earlier hatches were finished better and the welds were ground off so that they're hard to see).

I'm not sure exactly how this process made assembly of the hatch easier or simpler, but the locations of the exterior welds match (as far as I can tell) the interior locations of the brackets.

So, FWIW, that's what I think the explanation for these welds is...

@GewoonWouter – Wouter,

You have a good start on your interior and I think it looks both busy and interesting. Nice job on painting the radios. Just out of curiosity does the Tank Workshop instructions include how the interior components were painted?

Wouter, I also went ahead and ordered the same Voyager Models items but from Hobbylink Japan but I don’t know when they will arrive as they were a pre-order?

@seanmoriarty – Sean,

It’s hard to see the Zimmerite paste on any of these vehicles due to the quality of the photographs posted. However, all of the first five Initial series production vehicles of Panzer Lehr (PzKp. (FLK) 316) Fgst.Nr. 280001 – 280005 had Zimmerit paste applied to them at the factory. I believe you may be referring to the photograph of turret No. 13 with a family photographed in front of the vehicle? This photograph was taken sometime after the crew had abandoned and set fire to the vehicle. An internal fire would have been sufficient to have most of the Zimmerit paste fail and fall away on the armor plate surfaces exposed to fire from inside the vehicle or directly. The crews had been instructed to destroy their vehicle in the event the vehicle suffered damage and became unmovable so as not to fall into enemy hands if recovery were not possible.

@SdAufKla – Mike,

Excellent detective work! Your explanation for the four hatch weld marks on top of the loader’s hatch may be correct, as this would have optimized fitting of the hatch locking assembly to the hatch both simplifying and speeding up production. The four locking bar supports on the inside of the loader’s hatch are in fact lined up with the four U shaped channels welded to the four corners on the top of the hatch.

On the Jentz & Doyle book ‘VK45.02 to Tiger II’, they mention that the four U shaped channels welded to the outside four corners of the 40mm loader’s hatch are not described in the turret manual so no explanation is given for their intended purpose. However, your explanation is consistent with the production process during the period when the 40mm loader’s hatch appeared. Early in the production process during the war the Germans used machining for cutting and trimming armor plates and components (the hatch being one of these). This process was entirely replaced with flame-cutting toward the end of the war. The U shaped channels may have been designed on the locking bar supports to be used for wedging the support bars to the hatch prior to welding? Of course this is all just speculation on both our parts but does give a very plausible explanation for these channels. What would be needed here is for someone to examine a hatch on one of the museum vehicles.

-Eddy

Thanks Eddy, glad you like it buddy ^^

I think the Voyager Models exhausts were pre-order indeed, but they were shipped a couple of weeks ago and after 10 days or so I received them. Dunno if they still have them in stock or if they have to order them again.

About the colors: nope, the Tank Workshop instructions don't mention it: in fact, the TW instructions are horrible, compared to them the Dragon ones are perfect LOL. I looked into my Tiger II book by Waldemar Trojca and also watched the 1:16 KT build in AFV mag...and I took some liberty in painting the radios and dials for the driver...though I don't think it's very realistic, but it looks nice

Cheers

Update time again ^^

Today I painted the wheel hubs in Tamiya Dark Yellow, no buff or brown added this time, so that there's a difference in tone between the wheels and hubs. Also, the outer sides of the tracks received a Dark Wash (MIG productions).

Other than that I added some Tamiya Texture paint to the lower hull and I did some chipping on the wheels with a small spongue and Vallejo Camo Dark Brown

Photo Time!


On the right side on the lower part the track sits a bit 'odd'....that's because when I made the first track run over a year ago, I actually made it too long. No worries though, the lower right side of the Tiger II won't be visible once it's put on the dio.

Chipping, quite happy with that :-) :


The zimmerit pops out nicely with the Burnt Umber oil wash it received yesterday

Two interior shots after yesterdays washes


And this is what's visible once the upperhull is into place. I actually had to use flash, otherwise the camera wouldn't catch anything

Cheers

Quick question to any pros who may still be browsing this topic.

I'm thinking of doing another Pz.Fkl.316 vehicle as well, in perticular the one with turret number 02. The problem is, i've been seeing some reference material showing it only had a plain dunkelgelb scheme with no camo, yet others (like the cyberhobby instructions) which show it having quite a complicated three tone camo. which is it????