This is cool - I'm in too!

Gunnie

All signed up , Jim

Hi,

I'm in also.

Tried to sign up but, as I only opened a new Paypal account I get this message


Seems i have to pay £1.95 just to pay here!
Have to wait some days till it registers on my interent credit card account!

Jim,
All signed up for da Gold! How do I go about gettin the shirt?(this will be my 3rd...I love em)

Jason,
Just send me an email with your shirt pick and size with your mailing address, etc.

Thanks for your support and I am glad you like the shirts!

Cheers,
Jim

Before we all get carried away on a tide of euphoria, is some level of debate posible re. the viability of the A-Guard and its possible implications for the site as a whole?

I don't want to rain on the parade but are we now in a situation of users (the majority) vs. super-users? Perhaps some discussion would be healthy....... Jim

Actually Jim - the Site Administration is presently discussing this. Would you care to elaborate on what you said above - r.e. users vs. super-users?

Gunnie

Simply flying a kite....I'd like to see some debate on the subject..i.e. what is it going to mean for the vast majority of users....Jim

Okay - I'm with you there. Debate is fine to me, but there are facts not everyone is aware of, so points of view might be skewed. I'll fly my kite and state that the survival and health of the Site is always the main focus of an Administrative decision. In this case, paying monthly server fees is paramount. Securing advertising is one way of doing so, paying out of one's pocket is another (albeit less attractive) method. Offering an annual subscription is another idea.

For members to step forward and subscribe to support the Site is a wonderful thing - and the gesture should in no way be tarnished by anyone not choosing to do so. Conversely, no one is compelled to contribute in this manner - no one should "look" upon one who chooses not to participate this way in a lesser light than someone who did. Jim doesn't see it that way. Offering a contributor some server space for pictures, a Shirt, and the Shield logo is a nice way to say thanks for something otherwise intangible.

What are the implications for the "rest" of the membership? From my point of view - continued, healthy, existence of the Site so that it can continue to grow and reach out to modelers. That doesn't happen for free. As far as "users" versus "super-users", I'm not clear on the implication. It comes across to me as a feeling of those who "have" versus those who "have not". What is it that the "super-user" has? What is the "super-user"? Me?

Gunnie

:::getting out my umbrella:::

As far as I am concerned a "super" user is someone who frequents the site and engages other users in interesting discussions about model making and other topics, they might also contribute review, news, or feature stories, help update and maintain the content on the site (moderators/editors), and basically devote a good amount of their valuable time to making this the best site possible.

There are plenty of members who I would put into this catagory that have not (nor possibly ever will) join the A-Guard. This is not going to change my opinion of them in the least nor should it change anyone elses perception of them as a member.

If you need the additional image storage space, want to help support the site, or just want a T-shirt in the bargain, then you may opt to join the A-Guard. If not then you shouldn't think a wink more about it. I certainly won't be counting heads and taking names down about this.

Thanks,
Jim

Debate is great....when it happens..... Haven't seen much evidence of that yet...outside the chat rooms that is. The site has to be financed. That is indiscutable. How it is financed, seems for many people the nub of the argument here.....Jim

Well, I can't really add anymore to what Jim said in his post above. If you're not inclined to participate in a contribution like that - then don't. It's not a slam against you and shouldn't be a "debate topic". It is a personal choice that I think each person can make on their own.

This site is primarily about model building - not debates everywhere or politics or current events. Chat rooms are great for that purpose. I personally rather not fill the Forum threads with debates that turn into squabbling. It's pedantic.

Advertising and financing the Site is something that was placed into the Forums before - this isn't a "new" topic. If you've got a kicker of an idea - by all means share it! There's interested ears. And if you represent the "many" people - all the better then to toss some thoughts out there.

Gunnie

May I suggest that we forget about the shield thing, and the special A-Group forum, so for whom that are willing to donate can remain nameless, and this probably be more comfortable for all considered?

My 2 HK cents. (++)

Perhaps we should also scrap medals, ranks, avatars, the uom award, and anything else that someone might see as giving another user some kind of "user" high-ground?

Until I hear complaints from more than 4 users on this (all of whose opinions I respect) then this is not something I am going to back-track on.

If memory serves people actually raised these same points with the medals and the UOM award (and ranks). I don't think any of these elements has hurt the usage on the site.

To sum up... you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Jim

HI - I´M IN ALSO

ROBERTO

Well I'm very sorry that this has ruffled so many feathers. If we cannot put any point of view that is 'pedantic' the chat rooms are used by a minority of users, the threads such as this one are for public consumption. The CURRENT event is about something which effects every user on the site. If the site is not financed it will close. That is a fact. Anyone of us has the right to express an opinion ('pedantic' or not). The views expressed on this site are opinions. Something all of us have a right to express. No, i don't represent anyone apart from myself. You may think my opinion should not sully the sacred ground. I may conversely think that you have no rights either. Please don't try and trivialise anyone's right to express an opinion. Publish and be damned, not 'all the truth that is fit to print'....Jim

P.S. I used 'Super-User' in an ironic sense. Please don't get uptight by it. No offense was meant....

No - I express my views clearly. No trivilization. I do consider your jabs and comments about "debates" only occuring in Chat Rooms as pedantic - because - it is! Plain and simple, it makes no point and contributes nothing to the topic of discussion.

If you were only concerned about the welfare and financial existence of the Site - then I can't see how the comment fit in there. I take your thoughts and opinions seriously - if I didn't then rest assured I would not even reply.

If you were only concerned about the welfare and financial existence of the Site I think you'd have asked more about the contribution and what brought it on - not "dashing the euphoria" like you started out with. Again, I find such tactics pedantic - and I stated that. I know you can fully decide on your own whether or not you're comfortable with the idea of contributing - that's all that needed to be stated. The rest was inflammatory.

In my mind this isn't a point for debate. There is no sacred ground. Just because you write something and get countered for it - do not try to hide behind notions of "free speech" and the like. No one's opinion here is less valuable than another's and yours has not been curtailed, lessened, restricted, trivilized beyond the point of illustrating the folly of it, nor cut-off. Get off that soapbox.

If you wish to continue this line of discussion - I invite you to take it to the PM system. It's adding nothing to this Thread or the idea at hand.

Gunnie

Jeezz guys, you pay: fine. You won't or can't (sadly enough there are people like that) pay: equally fine.
The main point is that Armorama stays alive.

Now get back to modelling .

Well said.

I have yet to hear one suggestion for alternative methods of paying for the site from those that have a problem with the donation system. I've always been a big fan of the phrase "If you don't like the monkey I have, bring me a different monkey for me to use." I am a member of 2 very large message boards (10,000+ members), 1 large message board(1000+ users) and 2 small message boards. Only one of the boards does not have a donation policy and that one has a major sponser helping to defray the costs. And none of the rest of the boards do not have some kind of incentive for people to donate. It's part of how you get donations. Look at it this way. You have $1 you are going to donate to a charity and two people come up to your door asking for a $1 donation. 1 person just wants you give the dollar, the other wants to sell you a raffle ticket for the dollar. Who are you more likely to give your dollar too? More than likely you just said the one that offers you a chance to get something extra for your dollar.

Where is the actual problem, here? That Jim asks for donations? That donators are rewarded for helping out the site? How about explaining your position a little better if you want a discussion geared towards resolving it.

I heard someone in chat say that (paraprasing) Armorama was never supposed to be a pay site. It's not a pay site. Pay sites deny access to users who haven't paid, go to any adult website for an example. Jim has not denied access to anyone who hasn't donated. You can still access the features, galleries, forums, etc....

It was stated that debate was wanted, but no basis for the debate was laid down. You can't say you want a discussion and then not say anything to get one started (see the monkey statement above, it applies here too).

The fact of the matter is, I doubt if any of the donaters feel superior in any way to non-donaters. I know I don't. I just happened to have a little extra money sitting around from an unexpected client I picked up. I use a good chunk of Jim's bandwidth and don't really add too much to the site as a majority of my building falls outside the scope of the site so I helped to pay for what I use.

[on soapbox]
It seems like the people upset are the ones that don't want to donate, but that doesn't make it Jims problem or the donators problem. If you don't want to donate, then don't but don't start crying because I have an icon under my name you don't have. It is merely a collection of bits, it doesn't mean a thing in the grand scheme of things. You may as well get upset because I've posted more than you or I've been a member longer. If you can't afford to donate, don't, nobody thinks any less of you.
[off soapbox]

Thanks Tim!

May I use the "monkey" phrase? It'll help me "communicate" here at work...

Gunnie

This is more of just an aside, but for the people who think there is some reason not to display the badges, please keep in mind that this is also there as a self-marketing system. User clicks on badge -- reads about A-Guard programs -- signs up -- etc.

In that sense it's a very important aspect of making it successful.

Cheers,
Jim