Go right ahead Gunnie. I stole it from one of my old managers. I'd go to her with a problem in the database and she'd ask me where my monkey was. So one day I strolled in and handed her a stuffed monkey.

Okay....hanging it....up....on my....office wall...now...

Gunnie :-)

Jim's had site donation drives before. I believe he used Amazon and PayPal. I don't recall what the requested amount was or how well these drives went.

How did the "A-Guard" drive do in the 24+ hours it has been running compared to the previous drives? Just a ballpark figure, don't need specific dollar amounts. Did it raise just as much, twice as much, ten times as much? If it raised money to support the site, then it was worth it. No offense to the Mrs., but I'd hate to have our fate rest on the decision if Jim's electric bill was more important than Armorama's server fee.

The only difference I see between the "A-Guard" drive and the previous fund raisers is that this time we get little tangible "extras". If those extras helped draw in more contributors, then it worked. I don't recall anyone being ostracized for not donating in the past. I don't recall if I even donated or not. Did we single out folks who did or did not buy T-shirts in July? Maybe a blanket "thank you" was posted, that's about it.

As far as the A-Guard logo, hey, this maybe the only way for some users to get a little "flair" next to their callsign. Not everyone is going to get voted UOM or be given the neat blue medal that Bryan (Tin_Can) has.

I didn't donate to have another little doodad next to my name. I donated to support the site. I didn't volunteer to support an AMPS trophy for myself, I did it in Armorama's name because it seemed like the right thing to do to advertise the site. Actually, Jim told me that I wasn't able to have a A-Guard logo due to some computer admin related problem, although that was after the fact.

Most of what I do here at Armorama is to support the modeling community in general and Armorama in particular. One of the reasons I've pulled back is not because of lack of gratitude, but because of the negative attitudes directed towards me when I do things for others.

Looks like Jim may be the current target. Just goes to show you that no good deed goes unpunished. Looks like I need to adjust my decision and stay out of the Admin forums as well.

don't know where this came from.... I must have missed something in the above....

Does someone have me in the Armorama cross-hairs!! Yikes.

Just kidding... I don't feel anything said to date is overly inflamitory. I am touched that so many users have protective feelings about the site and it's future.

We should all remember that we all have our opinions and they are not always going to match. I don't think I need to say more than I already have to make my feelings on this clear.

Cheers,
Jim

Wise words, Rob.
I was sure there would be a lot of emotions on this as soon as I saw the A-guard post, but I'm sure Jim wouldn't do this if he had any other way to solve the problem.
Jan

This is going to be my last post on this thread as obviously it is now getting far too heated Let me put my (partisan) view of this matter.

1) The costs of running a site like this are obviously high. I subscribe to a premium cable tv service on the belief that public tv is not my thing. Therefore some method of funding Armorama has to be sought. I suppose in an ideal world, donations would be enough to keep the site running, as this is obviously not the case, some alternative had to be found.
I don't mind donating. Though I don't personally like the system of the badges. I like the campaign ribbons and I like the UOM awards as they (as Dave said) symbolise a tangible contribution to the quality of the site. I would also like to see a form of donating to the site which is anonymous. Ten bucks from someone may mean more than a hundred from someone else.

2) The principal confusion seems to be what are the advantages of the A-Guard membership. No-one seems to be very clear on this.

3) Some of the major concern seems to be related to a closed group within a larger group. Yes, Der Sonntag is a group within a group but everything is on public forums. Membership is not exactly exclusive either (except for wolves). as a member of Armorama, many people feel it should be 'Access All Areas'. A view, I personally share...

4) There really wasn't any debate on the subject. Some people strongly objected to me raising my (personal) concerns over the A-Guard. I will remind those lovers of liberty, that differing opinions help make a site like Armorama stronger. I like this site because it is often irreverent, frequently very funny and always very informative. Other sites out there seem to be entirely populated by humourless jerks who worship at the high altar of plastic accuracy. You all know which sites I mean....

So I will finish this here. Whether others decide to go tilting at windmills is not for me to say... Perhaps there is a need for a 'healthy' debate on the subject...perhaps not.... Jim

There we go, something we can talk about. We already have exclusive groups within our group, though. The foreign language forums. I'm excluded from them because I can't read or speak any of those languages.

Dont really want to get involved in the debate above...........
But I decided to join in the a-guard........ not to have anything extra but I felt ...... $25 for being here on average (minimum?) 10 hours every week of the year was a fair deal to keep it here! I bought a t-shirt in July, because I wanted the t-shirt for some time, and felt it was a good idea to do it at that time as it helped a little extra.
I like visiting here ..... sometimes to find out stuff, sometimes for a laugh and sometimes just because Im bored and need inspiration. I have always loved the UOM, the ranking system, the avatars, the campaign medals and now the A-Guard insignia. To me it means nothing more than any of the other "awards", but no less either.
I wanted to do this myself and havent felt any pressure to do so.
When I get my paypal through... and my a-guard insignia, Im happy to have it there. I also get 25mbs of allowance. I dont see the problem.

I'm sorry if I offend anyone... but I've given up wading through the posts...

The "advantage" is knowing we're doing "a good thing" to maintain the best modelling Community I've found... what are we arguing about? Less than the 1/2 the price of a modelling magazine each month... and it's FREE if you so desire!!

When we had the T-Shirt rally to raise funds for the site, I risked overstepping the mark by saying the response was "pathetic"... but the the way this discussion is developing leaves me nearly speechless...

Armorama has transformed my modelling... a stagnant hobby has become a passion again!! I can't put a price on that...

If you can't say "thank you" without causing offence, this is a pretty sad World...

Thank you!! :-) (I have edited this reply slightly, in case I came over too strong...sorry)

Rowan

I'm trying to hang back and understand what's been written. I'm unclear on the closed groups though...

I'm with Tim on the Foreign Language (as if English isn't foreign when spoken by Americans) too - but that's not intentionally exculsionary. The only other sections I know of that are "closed" are Administration Areas for Editors and Moderators. Surely you're not referring to that when you say "closed" - right? I don't see why one would want to - or should have - access to an Administration thread if you're not in Administration and performing those duties. There's a Site Contributors Forum too thats only open to members who've submitted material to the Site - is that the one you mean?

I'm trying to figure out where any other closed areas on the Site are - but I'm drawing a blank...

Gunnie

I originally posted this in the Staff Support forum but thought I'd post it here for all to read

I was not going to weigh in my thoughts on this but, something spurred me on.
Last night was the first time I had seen or heard of the A-Guard. The A-Guard? Huh? My initial reaction was one of surprise. I first thought that this is a symbol of elitism. People are paying for medals? I mean the badge is huge in size compared with any of the other medals etc.. I had no idea what is was for other than the individuals were getting extra megs for his/her pics.
I tried to search all over the site for references to it. I read all I could find. I was left with the same feelings as Jimbrae's thoughts that were expressed today and thank goodness I did not mention them last night as I too may have been hung by one who shall remain nameless and others who seem to be a little too zealous.
I kept quiet to see what else cooks up with this A-Guard. I had my reservations. I think it leaves a feeling for some that they will be "left out" if they don't get one. What if they can't afford it. Some can hardly afford a new kit. What about those that do so much behind the scenes w/o some kind of symbol to "show off". I thought, maybe it should be placed on the user's Profile page.
Ahh, a new day and some fresh light has been shed on the mysteriously huge medal. I had no idea of the monetary problems that were occurring. I have not been too active here in the past few weeks so I may have missed something. I now know the reason for it and I must applaud Jim for his initiative in implementing a rather risky addition to the site. I truly do think it is a great idea that is catching on. It serves a couple of purposes to the member and helps to support the site too. It's even self promoting!
I can see myself very soon joining in with this band wagon. Done deal now
I do wish it were a little smaller though.

Jim:

Just signed up. I consider it an honor to help support a site that has given me more than just tips, tricks, & techniques, but also a great sense of camaraderie and friendship. Each and everyone of the users here is like a true friend. You can't put a value on that.

You can, however, put a value on monthly service fees hence your need to make this move. I am 100% behind your decision. For those who can contribute monetarily...great! For those who can't, no big deal....just do your part to make this site as great as it is by contributing to it's outstanding atmosphere. I am much more impressed with people who openly and encouragingly offer their support and help to fellow modellers than to those who happen to be in a financial situation that allows them to donate money.

Happy modeling all!

John

We do have a closed group apart from Admin Gunnie. It is called the A team forum. As I have not paid I am not allowed to enter.

The foreign launguage forums are open even if you do not understand the lingo as you can still access and watch the funny words on the screen. The A team forum does not even allow me this.

As for cheap by the time exchange rates and bank fees are put on top it would cost me almost 60AUD to pay the lower one. As I am only on a disability pension I for one can't afford it. But I don't care if others do or if they get a badge beside there name. Jim (and me to some degree) is objecting to this "CLOSED A TEAM FORUM" nothing else.

Jim #1 the BOSS of the site has done and is continuing to do a bloody good job and yes I agree that it needs funds to keep it moving but not a closed forum to go with it.

I will not visit this thread again so there's my 2 cents worth

Okay, I responded via PM Cliff - but I'm going to respond here too.

I was not and still (at the moment) not aware of the A-Guard Forum being "closed" to members who haven't enlisted. I was able to access it several times before enlisting. I am disenhartened that the perception of a closed society spread so quickly - without - anyone asking a single question! Makes me wonder.

I do appreciate what you stated, directly and briefly, as to the bad feelings. It makes sense and I'd probably have the same concerns and reservations if I couldn't get "in" either. There was no pointless rhetoric or other comments to cloud the issue in your statement. Thank you.

But again, though I can understand the perception - I'm more concerned that it took all of "this" to get it out instead of a simple question and answer. Why didn't someone who felt so strongly simply ask why the Forum was closed? Was it intentional? How come? I sent Jim an inquiry as to the status of the A-Guard Forum and asked was it closed this morning after reading your post. He might just reply directly here.

I'm also pretty uncomfortable to have taken the point in all of this and coming off as a bad guy now for defending the decision. Sure, it isn't always peaches and cream to act in an Editor or Moderator capacity, but sheese...

After all of this sadness, I'm going to take my leave away from Site for awhile to take care of Family. I hope you and everyone just get past this thing and decide how and what you're comfortable in doing to support the Site. That's truely the bottom line.

Gunnie

Did anyone read the page that specifies what is part of the package users are getting?

25mb of image storage space on our PhotoPost image gallery (vs. the standard 3mb).

A-Guard: Silver Team unit identification on your profile and forum postings to show your support for the site.

Inclusion on the Armorama Supporters Roster.

Access to the A-Guard Members Forum.


By the term "access" this would have to mean a private forum. We have had private forums in the past. The Contributors Forum was a closed forum. Only people I selected because of their content submissions or other strong reasons were added to this forum. I don't remember a single complaint about it when it was available.

The fact is that these "secret" forums hardly ever get used. I am hopeful that the A-Guaurd forum will become a rallying point for team members to discuss ways to promote the site. Again I look at this group as sort of a Armorama Boosters Club. So giving them a place to discuss things did not seem that out of the ordinary.

Private access forums are all over the Internet on many large forum sites. Sure it gets me a little when I click on a forum and it says "members only". But I get over it, there are ussually plenty of other places to post something.

Jim

Many sites charge the users of (part of their) forum.
One of my favorite sites is the forum on www.airliners.net. Everyone can read, but you need to subscribe to be able to post. Cost is 5$ per month, or 55$ for a whole year.
Armorama is different : everyone can use the forum as much as he/she wants. So this is not too bad at all...

:-) I will be signing up for this. Because of Armorama I hardley ever watch TV, so the subscription I might have paid for that I will gladly donate to the site. It will be worth it, for me, for the extra picture hosting :-) I have to persude the boss though.

Mal

I just managed to get PayPal to take my money. I am in. Heck, the friends and advice are worth way more than the $25.00 spent to help keep the lights burning at Armorama. My weekly carton of Marlboros and case of Bud cost me over forty bucks. This is a bargain...

Shaun

#:-)

Okay on the private forum thing. I see it as a non-issue here. It's a nice idea, but, as Jim said, I can't really see it being used so much that it is a hindrance to those that don't have access to it. At the moment I can't think of anything that I would want to say to donators that I wouldn't want to say to everybody. I can see using it in an admin function to get info out that affects the donators only, but that's about it.

$25 is the least I can do for the site.
Thanks Jim,

Andrew

I am going to throw my two cents in because I feel Jim set the 75 meg limit with me in mind. I don't have the money right now to join, but I want to. I will when I can. But guess what, I am still going to read, still going to post, and still going to drool when we talk about something new. When Jim B talks about Super-Users I think he is talking about someone trying to hold their status as a donater over another persons head. A situation comes to mind where a donater tells another that when he/she has made a real contribution to this site then he can bring up criticism. I don't think this is anything that Jim S. would tolerate, but I am afraid that there might be a time when it comes up.

I can't access the A-Guard forum, but I don't care cuz all it will have is posts about which t-shirt everyone got and how long it took for everyone's paypal to go through.

The vast majority of user will never pay, but I just hope those who do pay can keep in mind that to make this site continue to be the best site, their monetary contribution cannot be more important than the Human contribution that our users make every day that continues to make this the best damn modelling site on the net. I think Jim B is right to want a little debate about this issue but not debating to see if it stays or goes, as I think the vast majority of us would like to be able to contribute in this way if we could. I think the debate should be more about how this should not be something that divides us. Maybe the badge isn't something everyone will cherish. Maybe that should be an option and you have the choice to have it if you are a donator. Dave Tong has already said he probably won't have it if it is a choice. But we all know he is as rich as God. But some of us miraculously have a few extra dollars right now and this can be a good opportunity. So maybe those who can't afford it but take issue with it should be a little more tolerant and view the badge as just another hard to find model that someone found in an obscure shop for a good price, cuz it's not like every donater is rich and it's not like every non-donater is poor.

I plan to get a A-guard membership because I have about 100 megs of original pics I would like to show off and this could be the perfect place for them so that the maximum audience is reached. The best part is I made it a criteria for everyone who wanted to post my reference pics that they had to be available to anyone who wanted them free of charge. I don't mind paying for this and I am happy to help the site. I think this could be a great thing because we all have some original pics of some obscure item of inventory and we could use this to build the best damn reference library on the net. I think A-guard is just the ticket for this site and I hope everyone else can be a little more tolerant until they can see the improvements the donations will allow.

Sorry guys, you shouldn't have caught me after church :-)

Rob

Rob"s right on the money (pun intended) . Everybody has a right to either join, donate, help out whatever you want to call it. I joined because I thought is was a worthy cause and wanted to help out the site the best way I could. I'm not as talented as some of you guys and probably will never submit an artical so this is a way i can contibute. I wanted to thank Jim and this site for making me feel like I was a kid again. Now Instead of running home from school to turn on the TV to see what kind of trouble superman was in, I drive home from work to on the PC and can't wait to see what kind of trouble you guys are in LOL. I spend $60 a month for cable tv and maybe watch 2hrs a week. $25 dollars is a hell of a bargain for the time I enjoy here. Take care Don (aka Waterboy)

You can count me in. $25.00 is little for all you have made available to us all.

SIgned u ptoday Jim..
Reporting for duty

Paul