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Hi All,
My first post on Armorama
I am just getting into this hobby with a Tamiya M8 HMC which I will be building OOB, with the possible exception of some different personnel.
I have my own blog which will follow my modelling adventures, but here is a snapshot of where i'm up to.
I am waiting on an airbursh to arrive before I add the details, so this model is about 95% constructed and 0% painted.
The scene will depict a US M8 HMC, somewhere in Normandy after the Normandy landings of WWII.
I have yet to nut out the details, but short story is the tank crew are receiving orders and figuring out where to go Those walls will be hedgerows (bocage), I just put the foamcore there to give me an idea of layout.
Waiting on an airbrush to arrive so I can get painting before adding the details.
Should be interesting...
Any advise/tips are appreciated, this is my first build so I have alot to learn
Constructive Feedback
For in-progress or completed build photos. Give and get contructive feedback!
For in-progress or completed build photos. Give and get contructive feedback!
Hosted by Darren Baker, Dave O'Meara
M8 HMC - First build
basil4j
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: September 17, 2011
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Posted: Saturday, September 24, 2011 - 11:00 AM UTC
Posted: Saturday, September 24, 2011 - 11:36 AM UTC
Hi Alec. I built both Tamiya´s stuarts a few years ago, and the biggest problem with them is the tracks. If you look closer you can see that the links that join the tracks are molded onto each individual track and not joining them as they should be.
The kit itself has a qute a few problems OOB but its still the only game in town in injected plastic, so there would be a good deal scratch building and/or resin replacements to fix it. They wouldn´t concern me as much though. If none of these bother you, have fun and enjoy painting and weathering the M8 as is .... its a perfect kit for learning and experimenting on.
Keep you base as small as possible and put the effort in perfecting the details, instead of making the usual beginner mistake of going for size and getting sloppy and rushing to finish it.
The kit itself has a qute a few problems OOB but its still the only game in town in injected plastic, so there would be a good deal scratch building and/or resin replacements to fix it. They wouldn´t concern me as much though. If none of these bother you, have fun and enjoy painting and weathering the M8 as is .... its a perfect kit for learning and experimenting on.
Keep you base as small as possible and put the effort in perfecting the details, instead of making the usual beginner mistake of going for size and getting sloppy and rushing to finish it.
basil4j
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: September 17, 2011
KitMaker: 22 posts
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Posted: Saturday, September 24, 2011 - 12:13 PM UTC
Hi Frank,
Thanks for the reply I'm thinking of buying AFV Club rubber block tracks as I saw on Perth Military modelling build of the same tanks.
Thanks for the tip re. the base board I shall consider making it smaller I'm actually coming from railway modelling so despite being a 'large' base for this model, is still considerably smaller than a model railway
Thanks for the reply I'm thinking of buying AFV Club rubber block tracks as I saw on Perth Military modelling build of the same tanks.
Thanks for the tip re. the base board I shall consider making it smaller I'm actually coming from railway modelling so despite being a 'large' base for this model, is still considerably smaller than a model railway
dioman13
Indiana, United States
Joined: August 19, 2007
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Posted: Saturday, September 24, 2011 - 12:27 PM UTC
Hey Alec, if you're putting figures and a hedgerow in, then I don't think the base is too big. Remember that the road will be lower than the hedgrows as time and use will sink them, same for the fields. For your hedgrows, try getting some sapling roots. Just pull them up gentile so you don't break off the very small root system, and toss in the microwave for a minute to kill off any critters inside them. Catkin and silfor seeds make real good leaves if applied right. Just use some furnace filter or a/c filter pulled out to fill in your hedgrows limbs, just give it a shot from the rattle can to blend the colors in. But most of all, enjoy what you are doing. Being from the model R/R area, you should already have a vast knowage in landscaping, just up scale it a bit. Looking forward to seeing more of this one, and welcome aboard.
basil4j
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: September 17, 2011
KitMaker: 22 posts
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Posted: Saturday, September 24, 2011 - 01:05 PM UTC
Hi Bob,
Thank you for your advise re. the hedge rows. I am trying to find a good guide to making them and you have provided me with one
I have found this handy site which sizes a good diagram showing how bocage was built. Ill be scaling it down so it will give a good sunken lane effect
Thank you for your advise re. the hedge rows. I am trying to find a good guide to making them and you have provided me with one
I have found this handy site which sizes a good diagram showing how bocage was built. Ill be scaling it down so it will give a good sunken lane effect
basil4j
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: September 17, 2011
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Posted: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 08:55 AM UTC
Hello all
I have just purchase this kit...
...because I like the look of it
My question is, when did this sort of winter clothing start being used in Normandy. Early spring? Late spring? Early winter?
Reason I ask is, i'm not quite brave enough to tackle a full winter scene with snow and whatnot, except perhaps a few patches on the ground so i'm trying to determine if it was cold enough in the slightly 'greener' months to wear winter clothing.
Also, is this type of clothing suitable for Normandy, or should I rethink my location?
I have just purchase this kit...
...because I like the look of it
My question is, when did this sort of winter clothing start being used in Normandy. Early spring? Late spring? Early winter?
Reason I ask is, i'm not quite brave enough to tackle a full winter scene with snow and whatnot, except perhaps a few patches on the ground so i'm trying to determine if it was cold enough in the slightly 'greener' months to wear winter clothing.
Also, is this type of clothing suitable for Normandy, or should I rethink my location?
retiredyank
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
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Posted: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 12:49 PM UTC
I'm not sure about the uniforms, but you shouldn't base it on your ability. Try building the scenery, it's the only way to learn. I've been putting off an Afrika scene, because I have never done it before. Just bite the bullet and try. If you can't do it, at least you can learn from it. Nice choice on the crew, by the way. The M8 looks good as well. Are you going to try weathering it? There are some excellent articles on weathering here. Look up ssgtoms' weathering sequence article and Mig's articles. Good to have you and am looking forward to how this turns out.
basil4j
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: September 17, 2011
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Posted: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 01:44 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm not sure about the uniforms, but you shouldn't base it on your ability. Try building the scenery, it's the only way to learn. I've been putting off an Afrika scene, because I have never done it before. Just bite the bullet and try. If you can't do it, at least you can learn from it. Nice choice on the crew, by the way. The M8 looks good as well. Are you going to try weathering it? There are some excellent articles on weathering here. Look up ssgtoms' weathering sequence article and Mig's articles. Good to have you and am looking forward to how this turns out.
Hmm something to think about.
I think then a more appropriate question would then be, what kind of winter would these clothes be worn in? Deep winter (frigid conditions snow everywhere and flippen cold) or mild winter (dusting of snow and at least your water is still liquid?)
I will certainly be weathering it Once my airbrush arrives I will begin, I will look up the article you suggested.
ProfessorP
Minnesota, United States
Joined: February 20, 2007
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Posted: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 04:50 PM UTC
Hi Alec. The Miniart crew you have selected are wearing shoepacs. These were not widely available until late December of '44 so you will want to base your scene around that time or later. Depending on where your scene is based you might not need to do a snow scene...maybe lots of wet mud was more common?
Best of luck with your scene.
Best of luck with your scene.
basil4j
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: September 17, 2011
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Joined: September 17, 2011
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Posted: Monday, September 26, 2011 - 08:01 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Alec. The Miniart crew you have selected are wearing shoepacs. These were not widely available until late December of '44 so you will want to base your scene around that time or later. Depending on where your scene is based you might not need to do a snow scene...maybe lots of wet mud was more common?
Best of luck with your scene.
Hi Don,
Maybe late winter 1944/45 would work then, i've read about winters in Normandy and they are more wet than snowy so it should suit quite well...maybe a light dusting, or perhaps just frost or something as well as the wet, muddy ground.
Should be a challenge, bocage + wet/wintery scene.
Any recommendations where I can look to find wet winter build stories or articles?
Big-John
Ohio, United States
Joined: August 12, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - 12:18 AM UTC
Nice build, and nice concept.
If you’re going to do a winter scene, the front line was in Belgium and Germany at the time frame of the winter figures, well away from the Normandy hedgerow country.
If you’re going to do a winter scene, the front line was in Belgium and Germany at the time frame of the winter figures, well away from the Normandy hedgerow country.
windysean
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: September 11, 2009
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Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - 01:29 AM UTC
Alec, thanks for posting this! I was just about to start the same kit for the Artillery Campaign, starting in October, so I'll be watching this one now (just noticed this thread today). Curious about the aftermarket tracks. I love the dimensions of this guy too.
I've been around for years, but relatively new to armor, so I think like Frank said, I'll enjoy this and not work too hard trying to add detail that it becomes work! The only tracked piece I've ever built was a Panther, probably Tamiya, about 25 years ago, with vinyl tracks.
As for your weather, remember the D-Day landings were on June 6, 1944, so by winter, the action was well inland. I imagine there's bocage to be passed on the way to the action though. I've only seen the popular movies, so I know about Normandy in June and I know about the Bulge in Belgium in December, but nothing in between.
Anyway, nothing else to add. Keep up the good work. I like your ideas.
-Sean H.
I've been around for years, but relatively new to armor, so I think like Frank said, I'll enjoy this and not work too hard trying to add detail that it becomes work! The only tracked piece I've ever built was a Panther, probably Tamiya, about 25 years ago, with vinyl tracks.
As for your weather, remember the D-Day landings were on June 6, 1944, so by winter, the action was well inland. I imagine there's bocage to be passed on the way to the action though. I've only seen the popular movies, so I know about Normandy in June and I know about the Bulge in Belgium in December, but nothing in between.
Anyway, nothing else to add. Keep up the good work. I like your ideas.
-Sean H.
basil4j
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: September 17, 2011
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Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - 08:50 AM UTC
Hi John,
Belgium...hmmmm *brain starts working*
Hi Sean,
The tracks were purchased on the recommendation of this review I've just ordered seom from Lucky model so should arrive the same time as my airbrush
Considering all the info i've received from this thread, I have now given myself 2 options:
1) Continue with this bocage scene, probably make it late summer/early spring (i.e dry and dusty), and save the winter tank crew for another scene at some point in the future.
2) Move the scene to Belgium in winter and keep the concept, but change the scene to a narrow road running alongside the edge of a small copse of woods.
Decisions decisions...
Belgium...hmmmm *brain starts working*
Hi Sean,
The tracks were purchased on the recommendation of this review I've just ordered seom from Lucky model so should arrive the same time as my airbrush
Considering all the info i've received from this thread, I have now given myself 2 options:
1) Continue with this bocage scene, probably make it late summer/early spring (i.e dry and dusty), and save the winter tank crew for another scene at some point in the future.
2) Move the scene to Belgium in winter and keep the concept, but change the scene to a narrow road running alongside the edge of a small copse of woods.
Decisions decisions...
Big-John
Ohio, United States
Joined: August 12, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - 03:55 PM UTC
If your intent on using the figures, option 2 sounds good. You can find all kind of pictures from the battle of the buldge on the web. Do a little serching and find some insperation.
basil4j
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: September 17, 2011
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Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 10:42 PM UTC
Updated my blog with progress report will post details in this thread in the morning...yay for airbrushes!
basil4j
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: September 17, 2011
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Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - 07:52 AM UTC
As promised, heres the main part of the blog post so you dont have to go following hyper links
So I got cracking tonight on painting the base color on my M8 HMC, Tamiya olive drab.
The Sparmax brush has a good solid feel and a very smooth action, what a great introduction to airbrushing Not that I have any experience to compare to mind you!
Here are a few snaps of the base coated model (plus a few details hand painted).
I have decided to make this M8 a winter scene, so the ground work for the original bocage scene is just there for interest. I plan to use it now for a Sherman or something
The color in the photo's is not entirely accurate, normally I shoot in RAW but last night I just wanted to get to bed so had the camera in jpeg mode and had little control over white balance :/
So I got cracking tonight on painting the base color on my M8 HMC, Tamiya olive drab.
The Sparmax brush has a good solid feel and a very smooth action, what a great introduction to airbrushing Not that I have any experience to compare to mind you!
Here are a few snaps of the base coated model (plus a few details hand painted).
I have decided to make this M8 a winter scene, so the ground work for the original bocage scene is just there for interest. I plan to use it now for a Sherman or something
The color in the photo's is not entirely accurate, normally I shoot in RAW but last night I just wanted to get to bed so had the camera in jpeg mode and had little control over white balance :/
stevieneon
England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: January 24, 2009
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Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - 08:14 AM UTC
Wow - you're an airbrush natural! That looks great.
basil4j
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: September 17, 2011
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Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - 08:33 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Wow - you're an airbrush natural! That looks great.
Haha thanks Thought I just noticed this morning there is a light patch at the front grrr. Ill take a look at it at home after work, could just be the lighting.
Any suggestions on how I can improve the .50 cal? Everything will be weathered so hopefully that takes care of it, but bare gun metal looks silly...
Also, not sure the ammo box is meant to be fully brass so going to need to look into that.
Oh and I forgot to mention I used 100% isoprop thinner with the Tamiya paints. Worked a charm dries super fast though! Not such a big issue for the base coat but I might add a touch of water for other stuff.
basil4j
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: September 17, 2011
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Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - 10:05 AM UTC
Another question for all you educated people regarding winter white wash.
Would the little M8 have been given a full winter white wash something akin to this?
Or would the effect have been more subtle?
I ask because I have yet to find any photo's of this little fella in winter, be it prototype or model.
Would the little M8 have been given a full winter white wash something akin to this?
Or would the effect have been more subtle?
I ask because I have yet to find any photo's of this little fella in winter, be it prototype or model.
imatanker
Maine, United States
Joined: February 11, 2011
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Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - 12:23 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Alec,here's apic of the first .50 cal I ever did I started with flat black,then painted the handles with a woodish looking brown,I noticed the front handle is missing on yours.Then took a #2 pencil and rubbed the body of the MG with it.I think I over did it on the pencil thing,but I got caught up in the moment I learned all of these things on this site.Armorama is a great place.JeffQuoted TextWow - you're an airbrush natural! That looks great.
Haha thanks Thought I just noticed this morning there is a light patch at the front grrr. Ill take a look at it at home after work, could just be the lighting.
Any suggestions on how I can improve the .50 cal? Everything will be weathered so hopefully that takes care of it, but bare gun metal looks silly...
Also, not sure the ammo box is meant to be fully brass so going to need to look into that.
Oh and I forgot to mention I used 100% isoprop thinner with the Tamiya paints. Worked a charm dries super fast though! Not such a big issue for the base coat but I might add a touch of water for other stuff.
lukiftian
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: March 12, 2010
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Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - 12:32 PM UTC
I believe that kit was used fall 1943 in Italy as well, so.... but it is a little heavy for summer 44
As for the M8, sure there are a number of improvements that could be made, but it's more important to enjoy a relatively trouble-free experience in the first few projects.
However, the minimum you could do is to replace the the kit tracks with AFV Club offerings, either the rubber block or three-bar cleat tracks will do.
The other thing you might want to do is to replace the wheels and drive sprockets with parts from the Academy M3 kit, there is an extra set of solid wheels and simple drive sprockets that are much more common on the M8 than the open/fancy running gear found in the Tamiya kit, and these wheels will even fit the Tamiya bogies. There may also be a good M2 Heavy Machine gun in the Academy kit, it's much better than the Tamiya one.
Once you do these, you'll have a reasonably accurate M8.
As for the M8, sure there are a number of improvements that could be made, but it's more important to enjoy a relatively trouble-free experience in the first few projects.
However, the minimum you could do is to replace the the kit tracks with AFV Club offerings, either the rubber block or three-bar cleat tracks will do.
The other thing you might want to do is to replace the wheels and drive sprockets with parts from the Academy M3 kit, there is an extra set of solid wheels and simple drive sprockets that are much more common on the M8 than the open/fancy running gear found in the Tamiya kit, and these wheels will even fit the Tamiya bogies. There may also be a good M2 Heavy Machine gun in the Academy kit, it's much better than the Tamiya one.
Once you do these, you'll have a reasonably accurate M8.
lukiftian
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: March 12, 2010
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Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - 12:38 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Another question for all you educated people regarding winter white wash.
Would the little M8 have been given a full winter white wash something akin to this?
Or would the effect have been more subtle?
I ask because I have yet to find any photo's of this little fella in winter, be it prototype or model.
From my Squadron US SPGs in action I see one with a hard edged winter camo and another with cross hatching on it. It's important to remember that except for a shourt period the winter of 44-45 was mild in western europe and there just wasn't a lot of snow! During the battle of the Bulge bed sheets were used a lot by both sides.
basil4j
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: September 17, 2011
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Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - 03:46 PM UTC
Hi Guys,
Thanks for your replies. Ill take the time to respond and no doubt ask more questions to each of you, but just quickly heres another question.
Is the below photo an example of winter whitewash? Its hard to tell in B/W photo's!
Hoping it is, because this would be the first ive seen of the M8 with winter colors, even if it is the 75mm version!
Thanks for your replies. Ill take the time to respond and no doubt ask more questions to each of you, but just quickly heres another question.
Is the below photo an example of winter whitewash? Its hard to tell in B/W photo's!
Hoping it is, because this would be the first ive seen of the M8 with winter colors, even if it is the 75mm version!
basil4j
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: September 17, 2011
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Posted: Thursday, October 06, 2011 - 11:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I started with flat black,then painted the handles with a woodish looking brown,I noticed the front handle is missing on yours.Then took a #2 pencil and rubbed the body of the MG with it.I think I over did it on the pencil thing,but I got caught up in the moment I learned all of these things on this site.Armorama is a great place.Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I never noticed the missing handle! Will try to rectify, but TBH its not something im going to worry about too much
Thanks for the pencil tip, might give it a go.
Quoted Text
I believe that kit was used fall 1943 in Italy as well, so.... but it is a little heavy for summer 44
As for the M8, sure there are a number of improvements that could be made, but it's more important to enjoy a relatively trouble-free experience in the first few projects.
However, the minimum you could do is to replace the the kit tracks with AFV Club offerings, either the rubber block or three-bar cleat tracks will do.
The other thing you might want to do is to replace the wheels and drive sprockets with parts from the Academy M3 kit, there is an extra set of solid wheels and simple drive sprockets that are much more common on the M8 than the open/fancy running gear found in the Tamiya kit, and these wheels will even fit the Tamiya bogies. There may also be a good M2 Heavy Machine gun in the Academy kit, it's much better than the Tamiya one.
Once you do these, you'll have a reasonably accurate M8.
Trouble free is good lol
I think changing the tracks is about the extent of the mod's I will do on this one, I will also be adding stowage from Tamiya which should make a nice addition
I already feel like this will be a challenge. With the winter paint scheme, snowy terrain and mud I think ill have my work cut out for me for a first timer!
Quoted Text
From my Squadron US SPGs in action I see one with a hard edged winter camo and another with cross hatching on it. It's important to remember that except for a shourt period the winter of 44-45 was mild in western europe and there just wasn't a lot of snow! During the battle of the Bulge bed sheets were used a lot by both sides.
Given my crew choice and their clothing, winter 1944/45 is where my timeframe has converged to
I'm now researching winter whitewash (or lack of) on Allied vehicles. I don't want this little guy to be heavily white washed, and the hairspray technique would likely give a whitewash which is too over the top (for lack of a better word) for what I had envisioned. In fact I dont really want to whitewash! Perhaps only a light dusting of snow, or something very subtle.
I have googled my fingers off trying to find a good example of the effect I am after, and unless its the b/w photos deceiving me, there are numerous examples of Allied tanks without whitewash but covered in snow...yay
Example
Example 2
The best examples I can find in model form is here and here
EDIT: And here
Does anyone know if a tutorial exists for such an effect?
Looks like I should weather first as if it were a winter muddy scene then apply winter effects/weathering, as opposed to a white wash where most people apply white wash over an un-weathered base coat.
basil4j
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: September 17, 2011
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Posted: Friday, October 07, 2011 - 09:19 AM UTC
Small update on my progress
I have decided on the change of scene as I mentioned previously.
Due to the crew I want to use being dressed in winter clothing, I have decided to move the little fat guy to Belgium, some where and some time around the battle of the Bulge.
The M8 and crew are on a scouting mission on the side of a hill in the Ardennes region and are stopping to reconfirm their location having found a clearing in the forest.
The sticks represent the approximate location of trees.
The hill sides will be grassy but snow covered, and the trees & terrain will resemble this...
(Photo courtesy of this Web album)
Oh, and I added the decals ready for the beginning of winter weathering.
I have decided on the change of scene as I mentioned previously.
Due to the crew I want to use being dressed in winter clothing, I have decided to move the little fat guy to Belgium, some where and some time around the battle of the Bulge.
The M8 and crew are on a scouting mission on the side of a hill in the Ardennes region and are stopping to reconfirm their location having found a clearing in the forest.
The sticks represent the approximate location of trees.
The hill sides will be grassy but snow covered, and the trees & terrain will resemble this...
(Photo courtesy of this Web album)
Oh, and I added the decals ready for the beginning of winter weathering.