I've done two small diorama's and a vignette, but there are a lot of campaigns coming up, and I'll have quite a bit of armor and infantry taking up space. But before I jump into something big, how big is too big? I'll have about 12 figures and at least two tanks (maybe a pak?). I'd love to build a big scene, but I know it doesn't usually work out. Any opinions?

-Conor

I think if the person is good,then it really looks impressive,I have seen some great large scale dios,but if the work is mediocre,then a larger size is just more of bad or mediocre.I think one had to be Really good to pull off a great looking large scale scene,it involves more then just plopping a lot of stuff in a scene.Balance and symmetry count also.

I agree with Anthony. A diorama is supposed to tell a story, it should not be just a haphazard collection of buildings, vehicles, and figures. I've seen large dioramas full of detailed vehicles, lots of well painted figures, and great scenery, that did poorly when judged because of a lack of cohesion in the elements of the scene being portrayed. The story made no sense. For example, there was a diorama of a German 88mm anti-tank gun in a destroyed building, that I saw at a show. The gun had no clear field of fire, nor was there any way that it could have been gotten into the building in the first place. Al

you'd be surprised how your figures can be numerous and yet not make a huge footprint of a diorama. the best suggestion i can give on larger dioramas is to make a series of milestones and focus on those rather than be bogged down on the overall picture.

finish the models one by one, work on the figures, create the buildings and then work on the final groundwork with all the elements ready.

i find it fun that will i work on each milestone i might refine and improve my overall plan. things come together will your working on the smaller details.

just be prepared to put more than a few weekends into a large dio but the reward can be worth it. on a side note, a large diorama is judged by its overall look and any one item can bring the whole thing to a lower level. keep this in mind as your skills may improve over a long time project and earlier pieces may not match the newer pieces. cheers, bd.

I would not really consider that big

Seriously, Bruce gave you already some good tips.

Consider also starting with the most difficult subject or the one you do not like so much.
If that one is not at the quality standard you set yourself for the whole dio, there is no point continuing the rest.

Remember that the overall dio is judged by it's lowest qualtiy element. You can be a master in tank building but when you can't paint the eyes of figures somewhat correctly, forget it!

Otherwise i would not paint the figures in one row. Split them up in 3-4 max. This is very time consuming and you should interrupt that with other builds.

You should also do a serious (no artistic talet needed) sketch of the dio before you start. A dozen figures are not easy to place convincingly.

Claude

I use my large WWII diorama as a show place for my Allied equipment and vehicles. I've been moving equipment on and off it as I build it and also enjoy improving the scene as I grow in skill and knowledge. I'll build another large one for the German Equipment I am now collecting.
To pull of a large scene dedicated to a certain group of tanks, personal or equipment, I'd perfer to work from a picture of an actually event, with some use of imagination too. Do some full scale drawings on freezer paper taped to a piece of foam board or cardboard the size you are planning on building and push some old tanks around on it to see how it scales out.. That was the biggest help of all in building my large dio.

Yeah Claude, compared to the Clervaux diorama, this is nothing.

I'm looking to depict a scene from Hungary in winter 44/45, cold, muddy, snowy, wet, ect. My vehicle skill varies still, but I've got a few practice kits coming. When I do vehicles , one build will be great, another not so much. In my opinion I do a pretty good job with my figures(I actually prefer building figures over armor). What I'm concerned with most is spacing, I don't want to have everything cluttered in a base thats too small.

I'm looking at a Stug IV & a beat up-looking Panther. The Stug on a road, and the Panther crawling over a hill. My figures (at the moment) are going to be split up in groups of about 4 (Some by the Stug, other behind/riding the Panther, and the others...idk yet)

Any suggestions for doing groundwork?

Thanks a lot

-Conor

I'd take David's freezerpaper idea a bit further, and suggest you forget about size for a moment and just play around with the vehicles & figs on a table until you get a scene that looks good from all angles and tells a story etc. Then, just measure its footprint to determine the size of your dio.

The only real limits are available display & storage space, and of course the need to move it around! (If you intend to take it to shows, a truly big dio might have to break down into several sections for travel, kinda like a portable train layout.) And remember that max size isn't just about doorways - sometimes there are limits imposed by tight corners, staircases, and other pinch-points either at home or at show venues.

Tom

Conor

For groundwork , there is nothing easier than really earth and sand, mixed with wood glue and water of course.
You can add some plaster, vary the granularity of the mix to give some structure from the beginning.

I recommand you to ckeck the threads from my frien Bradley (where are you?) aka Honeycut
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/user.php?op=userinfo&uname=HONEYCUT

I think he makes the best mud bases here. Check the threads he started during the last 2-3 years, there are a few involving mud.

Claude

Hi Conor,

The ground work is the key ingredient into a diorama.
If it looks right the figures and vehicles can be balanced from there.The main thing in the diorama building is to focus and be committed to finishing the project .I started this 12 months or so ago and cannot get into complete this .






The groundwork is huge and at present there becomes more model projects to work on and it takes a big effort to continue the momentum of completing a big diorama .

Claude did extremely well to show us it can be done and done very well

Good luck

Michael

First you need and idea (that personally interests you) worth a big diorama

then you need the energy to finish that big diorama

finally, you need a safe place to store it and protect it from dust and dirt

and probably a way to transport it safely to a model show

If all those conditions a re met then i would advise to make a very general "virtual model" drawings, computer designs...) of your final diorama, divide this into small manageable parts, en then build individual diorama's that, put together, make the big scene.

With this aproach, if ever yuo give up on the big idea, yuo will still have the individual scenes as output.

Too big dios are normally seen in museums. I've been working on a British column with 14 infantry and three universal carriers. When I get back to it, I plan on adding a tank. This will be donated to one of the local museums. As far as competition, bigger is not always but quite the contrary. Decide what the "show piece" model it and try to offset it from the rest of the dio. Some kits naturally draw attention, due to many factors(size, peculiarity, and how busy it appears when compared to the rest of the dio). Just keep one thing in mind, build what is fun. If it turns out great, you will be emboldened to move on to greater tasks. If it doesn't, you learn from your mistakes. Awards should not dictate your build.

I completely agree with you that this is what modellers usually try to do, emphasise one vehicle, or one particualr situation.... and there is nothing wrong with this as such.

However, in real life situations, nobody bothers about telling the story, things simply happen te way they happen and vehicles are parked with a practical logic and largely based on coincidence, not with the intention of making one vehicle stand out.

Where vehicles are placed with a particular purpose in mind like "defending a bridge", then it is te logic of the purpose (and the survival instinct of the soldirs) which determines the lay-out.

For large diorama's, trying to be realistic and thus constantly asking if the layout makes real life sense, should be at the core of the design.

I have seen a very beautiful dio once with a few soldiers countering a massive attack and including2 guys calmly peeling potaties less than 10 meters of the action, imagine that in reality

As Claude can attest, too big is an arbitrary call. My diorama with two heavy's and a full frontal church with courtyard is approximately 22 X 16 X 20 inches tall. Some others on the site are much bigger!

It depends on what you think you can handle, in my case it took more than my share of will power to keep going after I had dropped the ball for a couple of winters.

But then I decided to bear down and can now see the end rapidly (way to quickly in fact) coming around the bend and have to pick & choose my battles for the next week. It is a good thing the weather is so disagreeable or I may not finish.... just kidding!

Hope that helps?

Dave

I once wanted to do a Battle of the Bulge Dio and it all started with the Italeri Dio Set complete with the base (molded in white) a Sherman tank and a King Tiger (or Tiger B) and figures too.

I wanted to add to it (a few more tanks) and by the time I did all the research on what was used in the attack, and that what they had to repel it I was ending up with 9 German tanks and 6 American tanks ... and of course I went as far to have some soft-skins too.

So, by the time it was all said and done it all went on eBay. The expanded battle scene would have had to be about a 4' X 4' base ... about half my floor space.

So, too much can be too much or big CAN be TOO BIG.

I never entertained a dio again because I can't think small.








~ Jeff

I don't think that there's any hard and fast rule to follow in terms of size for a diorama. The maximum size of a diorama is determined by the story you want to tell, whether or not your skills are up to recreating what you've planned, and available storage/display space. Really large scenes can be broken down into smaller modules if transportation is an issue.
I also don't think that a big diorama needs a central vehicle as a focal point so long as all of the elements help tell the story behind the scene. That's more of an issue for smaller vehicle vignettes. Bigger scenes more often than not will have a focal point, but that can be almost any object or action central to the story you're telling.
Just my views on things.

The centerpiece in this may not be the two tanks, but probably the positioning of the figures. The way I look at it, if I can stick the tanks in reasonably realistic spots(well, the Panther's going to be on the move), and I put the infantry in the right places, it can capture the scene marvelously. My goal is to capture a feeling of dread, or something like that. I'm not quite as good as everyone else on here is when it comes to armor. So I won't be relying on that. Perhaps I'll add a dead tank or an anti air/tank gun into the mix. It's all on the drawing board right now, so I've got time to think

-Conor