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Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Pfffffftt Who needs Photoetch!!
jasmils
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: December 23, 2003
KitMaker: 1,016 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 04:48 PM UTC
G'day All,
Just a warning here, I am going to talk myself up a lot!

Photo-etch seemed to be the way that a lot of machine-gun mounts etc are done by most manufactures.
Over the almost 4 years I have been casting, never in a million years did I think that I could cast something as fine as the image below.
The master for this job (as it's not one of mine, it is for another company) is some of the finest work I have ever seen. Full credit to the man.
More photo's if anyone is interested.
Cheers Jason
BBD468
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Texas, United States
Joined: March 08, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 05:02 PM UTC
That is some fantastic detail right there...impressive! Agreed, we dont need no stinkin' PE!

Gary
retiredyank
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Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
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Posted: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 05:21 PM UTC
What vehicle is it for and who makes it?
Austmouse
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Australian Capital Territory, Australia
Joined: February 11, 2008
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Posted: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 06:14 PM UTC
The item is an Australian Platt mount MR555 50/40 soft mount as used on ASLAV Pcs and Bushmaster IMVs.

John
Sascha
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Sachsen-Anhalt, Germany
Joined: January 12, 2012
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Posted: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 11:22 PM UTC
Yeah that's real good quality, and all the fine details are impressiv. Can you give us more pic's?
Spuds
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Georgia, United States
Joined: August 31, 2002
KitMaker: 393 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 - 01:09 AM UTC
Now that is really nice. I would much rather see something like this than PE. Now all we have to do is hope the local post office doesn't play "football" with the package.
Lonewolf7usa
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Michigan, United States
Joined: March 24, 2009
KitMaker: 312 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 - 01:20 AM UTC
Agreed about the PE. I try to avoid using the stuff att all cost. It is to two dimensional for tank work.
jwest21
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: October 16, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 - 03:08 AM UTC
whoa- that's awesome! More pics please
Delta42
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Georgia, United States
Joined: August 27, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 - 03:34 AM UTC
Looks great, is it a one piece casting or several pieces? I can see a future for this type of casting.
Tankrider
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Oklahoma, United States
Joined: October 07, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 - 03:59 AM UTC
Holy crap, that is outstanding casting Jason...

What ever happened with the.50 cal ammo belts, empty casings and links?
bison126
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Correze, France
Joined: June 10, 2004
KitMaker: 5,329 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 - 05:58 AM UTC
Great job both on the master and the casting.

But tell us the truth, this a 1/16 scale gunner station
Kenaicop
#384
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Nevada, United States
Joined: August 23, 2005
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Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 - 06:09 AM UTC
A lot of times I will download a set of instructions from Eduard and use those as a template of sorts to scratch build stuff. My dirty little secret

Oh, and great job Jason!
jasmils
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: December 23, 2003
KitMaker: 1,016 posts
Armorama: 745 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 - 01:51 PM UTC
Thanks for the comments team.
There will be more photo's this arvo, I just received a Live-Resin Mk19 and a Voyager M2 .50 cal to add to the mount and see how it looks.
The cradle was designed to fit a Tasca M2 .50, but I suppose it wont hurt to try others.

Cheers
Jason

PS John C, got your PM and answered, as for the .50 cal rounds and link, new test casting has been done, now I just need to cast a heap more off to add to one casting block and see if I can get about 100 in one pour.
jasmils
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: December 23, 2003
KitMaker: 1,016 posts
Armorama: 745 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 - 06:36 PM UTC
Dunno where my Tasca M2's went. More on the way.
The Live-Resin Mk19 is GOLD!!
However, I need to get the adapter done so it fits the cradle.
More photo's below.
Cheers
Jason


flugwuzzi
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Lower Austria, Austria
Joined: November 02, 2007
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Posted: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 - 10:20 PM UTC
wow ... simply awesome stuff
Spuds
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Georgia, United States
Joined: August 31, 2002
KitMaker: 393 posts
Armorama: 287 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 12:20 AM UTC
What! No air bubbles, broken corners, mold lines, gobs of excess resin, tons of flash, huge casting blocks? This can't be resin!
chumpo
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Posted: Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 01:06 AM UTC
so which is cheaper the castings or the PE. ultimately its the cost that will matter. i had never doubted that parts can be cast in plastic or resin. it's just a question of what will the cost be .
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 03:18 AM UTC
Absolutely a brilliant effort in the making the master, then in the casting. The detail is simply amazing. This level of detail just can't be duplicated in PE.

Joel
ninjrk
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Alabama, United States
Joined: January 26, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 03:48 AM UTC
I have to be honest, I'd pay more for casted versus PE. PE is often a chore for me that I dispense with large amounts of it because it doesn't win my arbitrary difficulty versus visual impact test. Resin that looks as good is much easier for me to assemble and far more likely to use.

On that note, it also avoids the extremely common pitfall of PE where the parts are noticeably too thin. These are all reasons why I'll pay more for a comparable resin set and am awaiting when a PE manufacturer (probably Voyager as they've already started incorporating more resin bits) do a real series of comprehensive truly multimedia update sets.

Matt
stef29
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: October 10, 2012
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Posted: Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 04:33 AM UTC
That is amazing detail!

As side question to this dialog: does anyone know if the aftermarket manufacturers are looking into 3D-Printing? I know next to nothing about it, but what I've seen in demos leads me to believe they could achieve accuracy down to very small (.1mm, maybe more?) levels. Seemingly once a kit is designed on the computer it's far easier to "print" than to create molds. Also far easier to address mistakes.
ninjrk
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Alabama, United States
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Posted: Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 04:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

That is amazing detail!

As side question to this dialog: does anyone know if the aftermarket manufacturers are looking into 3D-Printing? I know next to nothing about it, but what I've seen in demos leads me to believe they could achieve accuracy down to very small (.1mm, maybe more?) levels. Seemingly once a kit is designed on the computer it's far easier to "print" than to create molds. Also far easier to address mistakes.



The only one I know of is not a company, exactly. However, Niels Henkemans did a set that he released on Shapeways and I am very much hoping that is the shape of things to come.

http://www.shapeways.com/model/710213/ets35001-hotchkiss-h39-running-gear-engine-hatch.html?li=productBox-search

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q52/jagdpanzer4/3D%20Designs/H39%20-%203D%20designs/H39_suspension_a_zpsce3daa9e.jpg
tankmodeler
#417
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 06:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text

does anyone know if the aftermarket manufacturers are looking into 3D-Printing?


Many companies are using CAD & 3D printing to create patterns for kits. I've made several patterns myself for various kit proejcts.


Quoted Text

Seemingly once a kit is designed on the computer it's far easier to "print" than to create molds. Also far easier to address mistakes.


Printing parts is still quite expensive and always leaves the remains of the layers that create the parts. These ahve to be cleaned up off every printed part every time yuo print a part.

It's much cheaper to make a mould & cast parts than to print all the parts for each customer. It's also much easier all around for the customer to repeatedly cast parts that have been cleaned up once for the pattern.

For parts to not need a clean-up, they would have to have layer thicknesses of better than 1/2 the very best thickness available today. You can currently get layers down to 0.0005-0.0006" (about 1/2 a thou) and you can feel the layers. You'd probably need less than 0.003" layers to not feel or see them under paint and even then, you'd have to sand & polish them to paint them with something like Alclad that needs a mirrow finish for the best effects.

Paul
samkidd
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Alaska, United States
Joined: January 06, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 08:42 AM UTC
Wow. That is some really amazing detail. I to have been casting for many years and I can fully appreciate what it takes to achieve this level of detail. Really, really impressive.

Jim
Large Scale Armory
jasmils
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Queensland, Australia
Joined: December 23, 2003
KitMaker: 1,016 posts
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Posted: Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 02:02 PM UTC
Thanks again for the comments team. It's much appreciated.

Quoted Text

Looks great, is it a one piece casting or several pieces? I can see a future for this type of casting.


Dave,there are 24 parts to the kit. Not shown are the ammunition box extension or the spent round/link bag.

Quoted Text

What! No air bubbles, broken corners, mold lines, gobs of excess resin, tons of flash, huge casting blocks? This can't be resin!


Tom, this one was made up from a set of seconds. Meaning that it did NOT pass quality control. I just hid a few of the problems with that particular cast with Photoshop. It usually takes me a couple of pours to get the mould right for production. Also on a side note, the whole kit was constructed without glue. The thinnest parts (ammo box holder) is .25 mm thick. And apart from the casting blocks and pouring points (range in thickness from .25 mm to 1 mm thick), nothing was cleaned up.


Quoted Text

so which is cheaper the castings or the PE. ultimately its the cost that will matter. i had never doubted that parts can be cast in plastic or resin. it's just a question of what will the cost be .



Edmund, PE is much more expensive (in my experience). Hence the cost is passed on to the customer, making the kit price higher. Resin cost nothing, really. I wot say how much it costs me to pour this particular kit, but in total the resin weights just under 10 grams.The same kit done in PE and resin, would cost close to 5 times more.

Bill, I'm not too sure how other resin companies do their moulds, but I have one mould for each sprue. That way, if there is a problem with one of the parts (either it be accuracy or mould construction),I can easily redo the mould if needed, rather than having multiple sprue's in the one mould.

Cheers Jason
didgeboy
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Washington, United States
Joined: September 21, 2010
KitMaker: 1,846 posts
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Posted: Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 03:49 PM UTC
Jason;
Maybe I missed it earlier but what is different about the process here as opposed to your regular method that you had been casting with?

And just so we are clear, that looks freakin amazing. Love to see more. Cheers
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