http://www.modelfactoryhiro.com/new/en/archives/7664#more-7664
It may become the best Tiger kit ever, but the price
Say what you guys think.
Cheers, Paul
Hosted by Darren Baker
Treasure-priced Tiger I Late announced!!!
Wierdy
Joined: January 26, 2010
KitMaker: 570 posts
Armorama: 553 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 12:19 AM UTC
If you're a Tiger maniac, check this out (if you're not, see it anyway):
http://www.modelfactoryhiro.com/new/en/archives/7664#more-7664
It may become the best Tiger kit ever, but the price
Say what you guys think.
Cheers, Paul
http://www.modelfactoryhiro.com/new/en/archives/7664#more-7664
It may become the best Tiger kit ever, but the price
Say what you guys think.
Cheers, Paul
hofpig
Joined: March 04, 2007
KitMaker: 1,330 posts
Armorama: 1,017 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 12:25 AM UTC
Wow that price does seem a liitle expensive!! But it does sound like is a mainly resin kit so it's not that much dearer than we might expect.
Paul
Paul
Tiger_213
Joined: August 10, 2012
KitMaker: 1,510 posts
Armorama: 1,443 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 12:26 AM UTC
The price? It's ONLY five hundred dollars. 
Could easily build a whole unit of Tigers with full interiors for that price. I love trying to figure out how some companies came to their 'asking price'.
Could easily build a whole unit of Tigers with full interiors for that price. I love trying to figure out how some companies came to their 'asking price'. 
Headhunter506
Joined: December 01, 2007
KitMaker: 1,575 posts
Armorama: 1,509 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 01:25 AM UTC
Through carefully conducted research of the target groups. They put blindfolds on and throw darts at a board with various Dollar/Yen/whatever amounts on it. Whatever amount the dart lands on is what the MSRP will be. These guys know that the "sucker" factor is the most accurate barometer of what the market will bear price-wise. The inclusion of a flexible resin antenna was probably determined to be the deal breaker to sway a modeler into snapping up one or more of these babies at five large each.
Nobody wants to admit to it; but, there are a lot more than a few people in every hobby who feel "price is no object" when it comes to obtaining something which catches their interest. Evil Bay auction prices validate that. Therefore, these companies are more than happy to relieve them of the burden of carrying around all that extra cash weighing down their billfolds.
Yeah, it's a "whatever the market will bear" and "nobody's twisting your arm to buy it" situation; but, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's a good thing. Eventually, it ends up reaching the point of diminishing returns by reducing the size of the market. The more expensive any hobby becomes, it reduces the the number of people who are willing to partake in it. A kid would rather spend sixty bucks on a video game cartridge instead of a 75 part model airplane kit for the same price. More bang for the buck, as it is. I remember a hobby shop ad in Scale Auto Enthusiast, back in 1995, for a 1/43 scale car kit. The price----$1600. If you feel that's reasonable, well, Sei Gesund and more power to you.
So, bring on the pontificating and justifications. This is strictly my observation and opinion. Opinions are like 1/35 scale Tiger I kits, everybody has one.
Nobody wants to admit to it; but, there are a lot more than a few people in every hobby who feel "price is no object" when it comes to obtaining something which catches their interest. Evil Bay auction prices validate that. Therefore, these companies are more than happy to relieve them of the burden of carrying around all that extra cash weighing down their billfolds.
Yeah, it's a "whatever the market will bear" and "nobody's twisting your arm to buy it" situation; but, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's a good thing. Eventually, it ends up reaching the point of diminishing returns by reducing the size of the market. The more expensive any hobby becomes, it reduces the the number of people who are willing to partake in it. A kid would rather spend sixty bucks on a video game cartridge instead of a 75 part model airplane kit for the same price. More bang for the buck, as it is. I remember a hobby shop ad in Scale Auto Enthusiast, back in 1995, for a 1/43 scale car kit. The price----$1600. If you feel that's reasonable, well, Sei Gesund and more power to you.
So, bring on the pontificating and justifications. This is strictly my observation and opinion. Opinions are like 1/35 scale Tiger I kits, everybody has one.
jon_a_its
Joined: April 29, 2004
KitMaker: 1,336 posts
Armorama: 1,137 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 01:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The price? It's ONLY five hundred dollars.
There will be some that will buy it because it is:
a) expensive
b) masively researched
& c) Definitive
& when you hear of them, I got some old Tamiya stuff I want to sell...
AngloSaxon
Joined: July 28, 2011
KitMaker: 31 posts
Armorama: 21 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 01:49 AM UTC
I posted the link to that kit about a week ago on another forum and there were several inaccuracies raised with the kit (going by the images). I'm not going to post the comments here as I don't believe it's my place to do so but, the person who made them, does frequent this forum so may join the debate here too.
It's a lot of money to pay for what may turn out to be, not the ultimate Tiger!
Mike.
It's a lot of money to pay for what may turn out to be, not the ultimate Tiger!
Mike.
Headhunter506
Joined: December 01, 2007
KitMaker: 1,575 posts
Armorama: 1,509 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 02:18 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I posted the link to that kit about a week ago on another forum and there were several inaccuracies raised with the kit (going by the images). I'm not going to post the comments here as I don't believe it's my place to do so but, the person who made them, does frequent this forum so may join the debate here too.
It's a lot of money to pay for what may turn out to be, not the ultimate Tiger!
Mike.
Of course it's the ultimate Tiger. What other kit manufacturer offers magnetically attached turrets as found on the real vehicle?
Tiger_213
Joined: August 10, 2012
KitMaker: 1,510 posts
Armorama: 1,443 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 02:22 AM UTC
Oh wait, it gets better! HLJ.com has for 468 USD as their pre-order price! What a bargain. I wonder if this kit (and others like it) might help 'influence' manufacturers to start adding more detailed interiors?
I wonder if this kit (and others like it) might help 'influence' manufacturers to start adding more detailed interiors? Headhunter506
Joined: December 01, 2007
KitMaker: 1,575 posts
Armorama: 1,509 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 02:36 AM UTC
Nuthin' doin'. They can't fool me, cause I'm a moron
I'll hold off until it's on sale for $467.99. I like a good bargain.
I'll hold off until it's on sale for $467.99. I like a good bargain.
SDavies
Joined: January 09, 2010
KitMaker: 979 posts
Armorama: 959 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 02:51 AM UTC
Hello All,
Since I am currently building a late Model Tiger 1 with full interior I have some experience with what it costs to make a representative interior and this kit does not represent value for money.
45,150 Japanese Yen = $495/£313/365€
Firstly I purchased a 1/16th Trumpter King Tiger for less than that, secondly I could build three of my current builds for that price.
Also we only have CAD drawings which is no guarantee of the top quality finish I would expect for the money. I will forgive Academy for messing up as their kit is so cheap.
If it falls to £150 I would probably purchase it
S
Since I am currently building a late Model Tiger 1 with full interior I have some experience with what it costs to make a representative interior and this kit does not represent value for money.
45,150 Japanese Yen = $495/£313/365€
Firstly I purchased a 1/16th Trumpter King Tiger for less than that, secondly I could build three of my current builds for that price.
Also we only have CAD drawings which is no guarantee of the top quality finish I would expect for the money. I will forgive Academy for messing up as their kit is so cheap.
If it falls to £150 I would probably purchase it
S
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
Armorama: 3,126 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 02:57 AM UTC
I am only buying it if it comes with a Japanese fashion model
SDavies
Joined: January 09, 2010
KitMaker: 979 posts
Armorama: 959 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 02:59 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I am only buying it if it comes with a Japanese fashion model
They would probably ship a guy just to be funny
SdAufKla
Joined: May 07, 2010
KitMaker: 2,238 posts
Armorama: 2,158 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 03:05 AM UTC
Considering that US$200+ prices for OOP Cyber-Hobby Tiger I kits are not uncommon, this kit's price doesn't seen quite as crazy as some here think.
Obviously, the kit is neither designed nor marketed for the "average" consumer. It's really targeted at a very narrow and small market that is already buying MFH's other specialty kits.
Also, when you add up the cost of assembling a similar project from a base kit and various AM sets, the price tag, while still high, isn't totally out-there-flapping.
You could easily spend US$250+ for a current production Tiger I kit ($75), a couple sets of PE ($30 each = $60), a set of link-to-link workable tracks ($35-40), and complete resin interior (which would likely be marketed in three separate AM sets - hull, turret, and engine compartment at US$30 or more each = $90 if such a complete set were available). You could also easily spend US$40-50 on postage and shipping depending on the various sources required to assemble such a project.
Your actual total for all of the components required could easily be in the US$300 range.
It would still be a multimedia build.
Add to that idea the knowledge that none of those disparate components had been engineered with the knowledge that they would all be used together and would require considerable hand-crafting to make them all work.
The MFH kit is a total package with all of the components engineered to fit and work together. I will have a single set of instructions. And finally, it has some clever engineering to allow all of that interior work to be shown off (the magnetic attachments that were mocked above), as well as a "sprung" working suspension.
Yes, the MFH kit does appear to have some inaccuracies, but then no kit that I know if is 100% accurate, nor do I know of a 100% accurate interior set for the Tiger I. The MFH kit seems to be within the currently acceptable standards for accuracy. (Going by the criticisms levied against other kits that still sell well.)
So, I don't know if the added cost of the MFH kit makes up for its advantages, but I don't think the total cost is quite so insane as might first appear.
Frankly, if I was looking to build a full-interior late Tiger I, I would at least consider it, and depending on the availability and accuracy of interior AM sets, it might actually be the only (or best) game in town. It's not a kit that you could throw together in even just a couple of months, so it should give the "bench-time value" of several builds which is also a value consideration for me (i.e. how much time and enjoyment do I get from a build).
My contrarian .02...
Obviously, the kit is neither designed nor marketed for the "average" consumer. It's really targeted at a very narrow and small market that is already buying MFH's other specialty kits.
Also, when you add up the cost of assembling a similar project from a base kit and various AM sets, the price tag, while still high, isn't totally out-there-flapping.
You could easily spend US$250+ for a current production Tiger I kit ($75), a couple sets of PE ($30 each = $60), a set of link-to-link workable tracks ($35-40), and complete resin interior (which would likely be marketed in three separate AM sets - hull, turret, and engine compartment at US$30 or more each = $90 if such a complete set were available). You could also easily spend US$40-50 on postage and shipping depending on the various sources required to assemble such a project.
Your actual total for all of the components required could easily be in the US$300 range.
It would still be a multimedia build.
Add to that idea the knowledge that none of those disparate components had been engineered with the knowledge that they would all be used together and would require considerable hand-crafting to make them all work.
The MFH kit is a total package with all of the components engineered to fit and work together. I will have a single set of instructions. And finally, it has some clever engineering to allow all of that interior work to be shown off (the magnetic attachments that were mocked above), as well as a "sprung" working suspension.
Yes, the MFH kit does appear to have some inaccuracies, but then no kit that I know if is 100% accurate, nor do I know of a 100% accurate interior set for the Tiger I. The MFH kit seems to be within the currently acceptable standards for accuracy. (Going by the criticisms levied against other kits that still sell well.)
So, I don't know if the added cost of the MFH kit makes up for its advantages, but I don't think the total cost is quite so insane as might first appear.
Frankly, if I was looking to build a full-interior late Tiger I, I would at least consider it, and depending on the availability and accuracy of interior AM sets, it might actually be the only (or best) game in town. It's not a kit that you could throw together in even just a couple of months, so it should give the "bench-time value" of several builds which is also a value consideration for me (i.e. how much time and enjoyment do I get from a build).
My contrarian .02...
jwest21
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 3,374 posts
Armorama: 3,126 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 03:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI am only buying it if it comes with a Japanese fashion model
They would probably ship a guy just to be funny
Good point- I need to verify what I am getting before I order
Tiger_213
Joined: August 10, 2012
KitMaker: 1,510 posts
Armorama: 1,443 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 03:25 AM UTC
Mike, very, very true. But the people paying 200USD for CyberHobby kits are insane anyways! If I was lucky enough to have a decent sized stash of other kits and all the tools and paints I'd like to have, I'd likely be one of the people buying MFH kit. But I don't.
At least we can all dream, or buy the Academy kit and follow Steven Davies build-log.
If I was lucky enough to have a decent sized stash of other kits and all the tools and paints I'd like to have, I'd likely be one of the people buying MFH kit. But I don't. At least we can all dream, or buy the Academy kit and follow Steven Davies build-log.
SDavies
Joined: January 09, 2010
KitMaker: 979 posts
Armorama: 959 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 03:54 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Mike, very, very true. But the people paying 200USD for CyberHobby kits are insane anyways!
At least we can all dream, or buy the Academy kit and follow Steven Davies build-log.
I agree
Spades
Joined: February 08, 2003
KitMaker: 776 posts
Armorama: 477 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 06:11 AM UTC
WHAT !?!?! Just $500 bucks ?!
Well, let me just open my wallet. Im gonna buy each and everyone of you one of these. Guess the economy has recovered, or it will after this kit hits the market.
Well, let me just open my wallet. Im gonna buy each and everyone of you one of these. Guess the economy has recovered, or it will after this kit hits the market.
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 06:26 AM UTC
Quoted Text
WHAT !?!?! Just $500 bucks ?!
Well, let me just open my wallet. Im gonna buy each and everyone of you one of these. Guess the economy has recovered, or it will after this kit hits the market.
Yep. I think this comment just about sums up how I feel about this as well....
arpikaszabo
Joined: February 13, 2006
KitMaker: 674 posts
Armorama: 637 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 06:48 AM UTC
Well, they have been selling car models for a similar price for years, so I guess there is some wisdom in this business model.
Headhunter506
Joined: December 01, 2007
KitMaker: 1,575 posts
Armorama: 1,509 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 06:54 AM UTC
From SdAufKla:
True, Mike; but, as David Byrden pointed out, information about the interior layout of late Tiger I's is sketchy at best. So, one would be shelling out, if one were disposed to doing so, five hundred clams for a kit with an interior which might not even be close to 50% accurate. That's a lot of scratch for what might not be at all accurate upon closer scrutiny. If one then decides to scratchbuild additional details in order to correct any errors which might be present, that, in itself, defeats the purpose of paying this much for what is supposed to represent the epitome of Tiger kits.
Also, one could just as well use the information found at David's web site and scratchbuild his own interior, saving at least $50-$100 in AM costs.
Quoted Text
Yes, the MFH kit does appear to have some inaccuracies, but then no kit that I know if is 100% accurate, nor do I know of a 100% accurate interior set for the Tiger I. The MFH kit seems to be within the currently acceptable standards for accuracy. (Going by the criticisms levied against other kits that still sell well.)
True, Mike; but, as David Byrden pointed out, information about the interior layout of late Tiger I's is sketchy at best. So, one would be shelling out, if one were disposed to doing so, five hundred clams for a kit with an interior which might not even be close to 50% accurate. That's a lot of scratch for what might not be at all accurate upon closer scrutiny. If one then decides to scratchbuild additional details in order to correct any errors which might be present, that, in itself, defeats the purpose of paying this much for what is supposed to represent the epitome of Tiger kits.
Also, one could just as well use the information found at David's web site and scratchbuild his own interior, saving at least $50-$100 in AM costs.
hugohuertas
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 07:12 AM UTC
Unless you are just a collector and not a modeller, in my humble opinion the price of this particular kit is insane
Even more considering all the accuracy flaws it seems to have at this point -from what available pics show-
Let´s see if they improve/correct/fix them until the final release of the model, but even then I´ll not go for it...
Even more considering all the accuracy flaws it seems to have at this point -from what available pics show-
Let´s see if they improve/correct/fix them until the final release of the model, but even then I´ll not go for it...
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 12:43 AM UTC
Quoted Text
but, as David Byrden pointed out, information about the interior layout of late Tiger I's is sketchy at best. So, one would be shelling out, if one were disposed to doing so, five hundred clams for a kit with an interior which might not even be close to 50% accurate. That's a lot of scratch for what might not be at all accurate upon closer scrutiny. If one then decides to scratchbuild additional details in order to correct any errors which might be present, that, in itself, defeats the purpose of paying this much for what is supposed to represent the epitome of Tiger kits.
Also, one could just as well use the information found at David's web site and scratchbuild his own interior, saving at least $50-$100 in AM costs.
I tend to think this is the definitive NO as to this 'definitive' Tiger. Sorry but it looks like more a vanity item than anything else...
SDavies
Joined: January 09, 2010
KitMaker: 979 posts
Armorama: 959 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 01:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
From SdAufKla:Quoted TextYes, the MFH kit does appear to have some inaccuracies, but then no kit that I know if is 100% accurate, nor do I know of a 100% accurate interior set for the Tiger I. The MFH kit seems to be within the currently acceptable standards for accuracy. (Going by the criticisms levied against other kits that still sell well.)
True, Mike; but, as David Byrden pointed out, information about the interior layout of late Tiger I's is sketchy at best. So, one would be shelling out, if one were disposed to doing so, five hundred clams for a kit with an interior which might not even be close to 50% accurate. That's a lot of scratch for what might not be at all accurate upon closer scrutiny. If one then decides to scratchbuild additional details in order to correct any errors which might be present, that, in itself, defeats the purpose of paying this much for what is supposed to represent the epitome of Tiger kits.
Also, one could just as well use the information found at David's web site and scratchbuild his own interior, saving at least $50-$100 in AM costs.
At the same time you do have to compromise accuracy on an internal build because references are incomplete or missing. One of the primary resources of Tiger 1 information is the Bovington Tiger an early vehicle, this is of very limited use if you are building a Late Tiger 1 as I am.
I wish I could get into the French Tiger, I have some good images from my collegues on this forum but even then they are not complete.
If the kit makers have had access to the Samour Tiger then this kit will be an important reference work.
SdAufKla
Joined: May 07, 2010
KitMaker: 2,238 posts
Armorama: 2,158 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 02:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Also, one could just as well use the information found at David's web site and scratch build his own interior, saving at least $50-$100 in AM costs
Oh sure, Joe, it's certainly possible to do the project for much, much less money. However, that assumes the skill and ability to do the research and modeling necessary. Also, as Steven Davies points out:
Quoted Text
At the same time you do have to compromise accuracy on an internal build because references are incomplete or missing. One of the primary resources of Tiger 1 information is the Bovington Tiger an early vehicle, this is of very limited use if you are building a Late Tiger 1 as I am.
So, IMO only, the issues of absolute accuracy of the interior for the MHF kit are not such a detractor. Just looking at the CAD art (all that we have to go on), the "completeness" of the interior is significantly more important, and the MHF kit does appear to have the most complete interior of any production kit ever sold. (It also appears to be more complete than any AM interior that I'm familiar with.)
In the end, of course, it's a matter of personal goals and objectives.
My main point was simply that the cost of the MHF kit, for what they say will be included, is not quite as inflated as it seems. Such a comparison can only be made by assembling a theoretical package of all commercially available kits and AM components so that a similar build without any scratch building would be possible.
That a similar goal (a late model Tiger I with complete interior) can be achieved by a different path is not the point. At it's extreme, we could argue that every subject could be made entirely from scratch at pennies on the dollar when compared to any production kit of the same.
The MHF kit appears to be aimed at the guy who wants to build without any need to scratch or to do exhaustive research. No doubt that it's very expensive, but that must be a price that some modeler's are willing to pay since MHF has been selling such "designer" kits for a while now.
In the end, it's probably priced more than I'd be willing to pay, but, like I said above, if I was seriously considering a build of the subject, I wouldn't discount it out of hand based just on that. The cost-benefit comparison, at least to me, shows that it's not a completely unrealistic option.
(PS: I'm not trying to be argumentive here, just enjoying the conversation.)
SDavies
Joined: January 09, 2010
KitMaker: 979 posts
Armorama: 959 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 03:22 AM UTC
No arguements, its not like this is Youtube!
I would agree that this (would seem to) represent the most accurate Tiger Interior ever made by any manufacturer. But that is not saying much as there is very little competition.
The Academy Kit is an interior on a budget, the first of its kind, its actually quite good and I have used it on my project. Elements of the Verlinden interior are really great, others look like they were put together by Primary school kids.
I will be interested to see the kit interior in plastic/resin to judge on the Ultimate Tiger tagline. so far CAD drawings and a Tiger is not enough.
S
I would agree that this (would seem to) represent the most accurate Tiger Interior ever made by any manufacturer. But that is not saying much as there is very little competition.
The Academy Kit is an interior on a budget, the first of its kind, its actually quite good and I have used it on my project. Elements of the Verlinden interior are really great, others look like they were put together by Primary school kids.
I will be interested to see the kit interior in plastic/resin to judge on the Ultimate Tiger tagline. so far CAD drawings and a Tiger is not enough.
S
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