HEy guys,

I remember hearing a rumour a while back about some US National Guard units that were deployed to Iraq (circa 2003) that were still using the older M16A1 assualt rifles. I have seen the M60 in use by a few Army and Guard units in the early days of Iraq, but never the M16A1.

I just want to confrim this for my next build. I want to do a M998 Humvee with a few Gaurdsmen wearing the older PASGT flak jackets. Any help will be much appreciated.

I didn't see any M16A1s when I was there in both '03 and '08-'09. I haven't seen any M16A1s in use for about 10 years, even with National Guard units. They all have been replaced as far as I know.

I concur with Gino. I was in OIF 1 from March 2003 through July of 2004. Never saw a single M16A1. I was in Baghdad, Babylon, Najaf, Diwaniya, Al-Kut, and Balad. The last time I saw an M16A1 was roughly 94 or 95. We had M16A2's and M4 Carbines.

How far in years could the M60 go? How about the MP5 SMG or even the M3 Grease Gun?

The M60 was used through the mid-to late '90s in regular Army units. Some National Guard units still had them into the early 2000's. Most were turned in for M240s when they NG units deployed to Ira or A'stan.

The MP 5 is not a standard issue US Army weapon.

The M3 Grease Gun was in use through the early '90s as an on-vehicle weapon on M1A1s and some other armored vehicles.

As far as how long could they last...a weapon will last almost indfinitely if properly maintained. I have a 1943 Mossin Nagant 91/30 that is in perfect working order and I shoot it regularly.

We don't get rid of anything. I posted a photo of the MP5 I had in Iraq here on the site, but I forget which thread.
A few years back, we went to Camp Guernsey, Wyoming. Four SF dudes, unlimited ammo, and no adult supervision!
Of course, we have the M14:



The grease gun:



And then there was my team sergeant, actually hitting clays on single shot with it. Obviously though, this was not single shot...



We still have M60s and most everything else we've ever used. You never know whom you have to train and what they have.

I saw several M60's in Iraq. There was a Psy Ops unit I ran some missions with in Al-Kut that had them...the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment still used M60D on their Blackhawks....Saw Combat Engineers with them

Thank you all for the replies!

I though it seemed pretty far off that units would be using the A1 so long after the A2 replaced it.

Robert, it looks like that trip must have been a lot of fun. I sure do love the M14. Been trying to find a place that could source a Springfield M1A for me, but no luck yet. Took me months just to find a shop that could source a Beretta 92FS in this place.

Anyway, I'll stick to some M16A2's in that case.

Thanks again chaps.

On a side note, many of the military A1s were provided to law enforcement agencies to help up-gun them, initially following the LA shootout and then after September 2001. Modified to semi-auto only, they are still out there in service today.

I will toss my two cents in here.. I was in the Navy and was sent to Iraq in 2009. We carried M16A2's and they were beat all to hell. The guy brought them to us to issue in a shopping cart. Had to reject more than a few for bent front sights. I figure if they had any A1's left we would have gotten them. Hell we had to beg, borrow and well steal to get ammo for self defense rounds over there so I am sure they would only give us bottom of the barrel stuff.

There were M16A1's in Iraq, however they were hardly front line service. The Air Force issued older M16 variants, to include an original Model 601 still with it's green furniture to airmen deploying to the AOR. I don't think they still issue them anymore. Go to www.ar15.com and look into the Retro forum, there are pictures there.

Here's a picture of one still in Air Force service in 2010. This rifle is serial number 7506 and came right out of a Security Forces arms room.

That's a rare sight! Even using the 20 round mag. I can understand the USAF still keeping a few for security reasons though. Even so, that is one old rifle. Still the early type with the three-prong flash suppressor without the forward assist.

The M16A1 has a longer barrel twist and the new ammo being purchased is a heavier bullet that has to spin at a fast twist rate of the M16A2.

If you shoot new ammo (green tip 63grain) through an A1, the bullet will wobble and even hit the target sideways.

I doubt that any A1s are issued because it'd mean they'd have to stock two different ammo for them. They can only handle older ammo w 55 grain bullets. This would be a supply chain mess and can't imagine them doing that.

The rifle in the hands of the Airman above looks like a civilian AR15 - there's no auto-sear pin and the front take down pin is the larger screw type only used on the civilian models.

Yes, there could have been A1s in country. I have been in both Afghanistan and Iraq more then once and there is some really old, supposed to be out of the military, gear in use. The balistics issue really wouldnt matter to the people issuing and being issued A1s. It is a 5.56 round, it will fire from the weapon, therefore it works. Yes, at distances the bullet will start to tumble and percision will be lost, but that really doesnt matter to someone who never fires their weapon, or if they have to would be in perimeter defense measured in tens of feet and not hundreds of yards.

Bruce, look again, you are wrong, that is in fact a USGI Colt Model 601 AR15/M16. There is an auto sear pin, and the front take down pin is NOT a screw like on the Colt SP1 guns, but the interm captive detent pins that were issued for guns with non fenced lowers lacking the detent to allow use of a captive pin.

Also, the 1/7 twist of new guns will work with 55 grain ammo just fine, the 62 grain M885 ammo will also work, but not always reliably as you said due to the faster 1/12 twist of pre A2 barrels.

I was going to mention that. Fired one of those beauties, a few times. It's good to have family who collect guns. All are legal. Well, I only know of the legal ones.