Gentlemen: Greetings from an old CAV tanker on the US side of the pond! I want to build a 1/35 Suez Crisis 1956 Centurion using the Bison Decals sheet. I found a post on the Net where an "expert" opined that the best kit to use for this would be the AFV Club 1/35 IDF 1967 Shot Centurion. Against my instinct I bought that kit, and digging through it, I'm scratching my head because in profile, it doesn't resemble the Cent on the Bison models decal instructions; the barrel is a different shape; different engine; the nose and the rear look different. So it seems I'm back to Square One...what's the best AFV Club Centurion to model one from the 1956 Suez Crisis? Many thanks! Best, Christian PS I got the Lions Marc resin turret; I believe a lot of the Suez Cents were Mk 3s converted to Mk Vs, so this resin turret looks good.

you are better off getting a old tamiya or academy centurion Mk III i believe the main gun on the MK. III was the 20lb the afv club kit has the avds 1790 and the 105mm main gun, you can still find the old Academy or tamiya kit on ebay

Hello Christian,

The Australian one has a 20 pdr the kit number is AF35100,

Here is a link to an Australian one, http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/modern/centurion51cw_1.html

There is also one with a dozer....

Anto

I did mine way before AFV Club Cents came out, so I was limited to Tamiya. If I had to do one now, I'd still use a Tamiya kit. Why? It would require far less aftermarket - it already has the correct roof hatch arrangement and top loading stowage bins. I love the AFV Club Cents, but sometimes I just like to go old school.

The Centurion entered service with the IDF in 1959 - AFTER the Suez crisis. It had its operational debut in the 1967 six day war.

Guy, thank you for reminding us that 1959 was after 1956- remarkably, many of us are well aware of that. Would you like to address the subject of the post, to whit: what is the best 1/35 kit to represent a Suez Crisis Centurion?

Hello,

I would suggest the AFV Kit, not the Tamyia.

The AFV Kit is simply "nicer" then the Tamiya.

Principle u have the free choice between the kits. What you need is a Cent MK V and a 20pdr Type "A" or early. The simplest solution is the Cent with the dozer (35106). But this is not a "must" because AFV sale the A Type barrel free so that you can equip every kit wiht this early barrel. Here are similar threads: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/27691-can-i-produce-a-suez-centurion-from-an-afv-kit/ http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1347818917/1956+Suez+crisis+Centurion+Mk.5+1-35+AFV+Club

Cheers

Any of the AFV Mk5 kits is suitable.
But you will need side skirts if they are not in the kit of choice.
Either the Type A or Type B 20lber barrels can be used.
`Nasser`s Nightmare` for example had a Type B barrel

Malc

great job....i had to do a double take...i thought it was real

Gentlemen, I did by the AFV Club IDF Shot Centurion, because an "expert" on another site had posted that this kit could be backdated to a British Suez 1956 Centurion (maybe this was before the AFV Club Mk V with the dozer had come out?)

What do you all think, could I "backdate" the IDF Shot Cent to a Suez one? Is that kit usable? I'm inclined to get the AFV Mk V with the dozer as recommended; it seems to be the closest match, then use the Lions Marc resin Mk 3 Cent turret- I understand it's a closer match for a Suez Cent since some were Mk 3s updated to Mk Vs. Just a shame to waste the IDF Shot kit...Best, Christian

Am I missing something here or is the Afv Club centurion Shot 1967 absolutely fine for a Suez Centurion? They had cents with the late stowage boxes and later hatch type, and with the Tybe B barrel all of which are in the kit. The engine is fine surely?

The only thing to add is the mantlet cover and extended mudguards (which no kit offers). You could resolve the mantlet by using an aftermarket turret (buy a "mk3 while your at it if you want the earlier hatch type). If you wanted to build a specific vehicle with the earlier boxes, buy the Castoff or Cromwell models set. Again you could also pick up the Type A barrel if you wanted to build a specific vehicle.

You could, as Rob said, use the Tamiya kit if you aren't bothered by its age, scratch build the extended mudguards and your done.

Owen, thanks for the info!

Here's the deal, when I compare the profiles of the Cents featured on the Bison Models Suez 1956 decal, to the AFV 1/35 Shot 1967 kit, the front, rear, and side views look really different...the layout of the front slope, rear slope, etc...I got the Lions Marc Cent Mk 3 turret which looks good; it has a nice mantlet cover, too;

Just need a different barrel (Type A or B), because the metal barrel included in the AFV Club IDF shot kit is tapered, almost a cone shape at one point- def. a different shape then pics of the Suez Cents I've seen.

Is it possible the profile used on the Bison Models 1/35 "Suez 1956" decal sheet are wrong? Because they def. don't match the profiles of the IDF Shot on that kit's instructions.

Do any of you have any more info on the extended mudguards? guessing I can just build them out of sheet styrene, but haven't found any refs yet on their shape, size, etc...

Does anyone know a source for AFV Club's instructions for the Centurion V with the dozer? I've been poking around looking for them but no luck.

If I could get those instructions, by process of elimination, I could set aside the 1967-era IDF parts from the Shot kit...hopefully leaving me with the parts for a British 1956 Cent, other than the different barrel and the extended mudguards....

Many thanks to all for your help, from an old M1 Abrams CAV tank gunner!

Best, Christian

Any

Didn't the Israelis replace all the engines in their Cents with General Motors or some such? I'm pretty sure this changes the rear deck completely - I really wouldn't have recommended the IDF version. Wouldn't it be easier to backdate the NATO version from AFV Club? Also don't AFV Club also make the required mantlet covers (try Hannants for listing).

They did in time for the 1973 war, but in 67 they still used the regular Meteor engine as they came. They did modify the deck on some but the afv kit doesn't have these changes and is exactly the same as the NATO kit but with different decals and an extra sprue for the IDF water cans, 50cal etc.

Afv club did a separate kit with the new engine - this is the Shot Kal 1973 kit. But Christian says he has the Shot 1967 kit.

Hi Christian

I think the afv club Tybe B barrel is fine. The gun did have a taper though the Bison sheet doesn't show it. Google 20pdr barrel and have a quick look and it's definitely there. I used the Type A barrel from the Dozer kit on my build as I preferred the look of the earlier type and I happened to have one in the spares box. I used the type B on my Shot 1967 (with modified engine deck but original meteor engine) as seen in the picture below. The Suez is on the left and Shot '67 on the right. Both are just primed so far. The unbuilt 1967 kit thy are sitting on is destined to be a Cent mk3 from the Korean War using the lionmarc turret and castoff stowage boxes and another spare type A barrel.

The sprues with the idf parts are N, H(the smaller one with the 50cal), and S. you also won't need the etch fret with the parts for the 50cal or the resin telephone box included in the kit.

The front deck varied. I don't believe they had the extra armour panel the so you probably should leave it off. Else just add the spare tracks, and/or optional stowage box (h20) and lights D1.
On the engine deck use parts I54 and 55 if using the later gun (they are rubber bump stops to protect the engine deck from damage when the gun is facing the rear - with the later gun they needed a section removed to allow room for the fume extractor). There are similar parts on sprue C for use with the earlier barrel.

Aerials are a pain as the vehicle really shoud have the earlier radio sets as seen on British ww2 tanks - and these do not come with the kit but can be found from RB or the spares box if your lucky.

As for the mudguards they are a pain in the rear to build. I used some good Cent mk3 walk arounds on prime portal. Since I build mine using a Legends resin kit the measurements were just fudged to fit the kit! I wish someone would bring an etched set out for them.


Hope that helps!
Cheers and have fun
Owen

I wouldn't rely solely on a decal manufacturer's side profiles for the manufacturing details on a specific tank. Try to find real photos, and continue to ask questions on various boards.

The profiles are generic with some details based on research included. They are not meant to be a comprehensive profile of the vehicle in question.

Owen, thanks for the info, this is great- I may use that Shot kit yet!

I think I saw someone making a PE set of stowage boxes...is there a hard and fast rule for which Suez Centshad which style stowage boxes? Are the variants noticably different?

Forgive me but what, pray tell, is the "RB" you mentioned as a source for British WW Two style tank aerials?

Def. a market for them....I was an M1 Abrams tank gunner ans far as I can see, nobody makes hte correct fiberglass 7" tall aerials we used, as well as the simple metal and rope "tie down keepers" we used to pull both aerials forward while the tank was on the move.

Many thanks! Best, Christian

Christian:

RB Models - RB Models New News

The antenna bases are here (scroll down to 35A07):

RB Models::Misc 1/35 Scale Accessories

I've always had good experiences ordering direct from them, although shipping makes ordering a lot of stuff a better deal than just one or two items.

HTH,

Robert, that Cent looks great! Where did you find the decals for "Iron Mouse?" I got one of the OOP Bison Decals "Suez 1956" sheets, but "Iron Mouse" isn't on there...Best, Christian

Thanks Jesse- having modeled for 30 years, I'm well aware that the decal sheet profile is not the definiive reference. Since you're clearly an expert (or you wouldn't have made such a statement), what detailed references on Suez 1956 Centurions do you personally suggest? Which books? Which websites? Which photos?

Sorry, I'm no expert on Centurions or anything else for that matter. I was just talking generally. I had asked a researcher about a different Bison decal set how accurate the profiles were, and his response was that it was relatively close, but that details of a specific vehicle weren't always portrayed.

Oops. Sorta lost track of this thread. The "Iron Mouse" is on an excellent Accurate Armour sheet, which also comes with several complete sets for others - Korea, Berlin, Aden (although you need to scratchbuild a Mk10 for that set. I'd highly recommend the set.

Robert, many thanks for the info! I just finally got an Accurate Armour Matilda I kit- will def. look at those decals thanks to you!

The Israeli 67 Cent would work for several of the tanks involved in Operation Musketeer. I built "Nasser's Nightmare" out of it. It has the parts included to build the British version. Some tanks had the forward mounted periscope and some didn't. My tank built for the Cold War Group Build

Also Tanks Illustrated Modern British Tanks has several pictures from the operation. The Pathe News news reels has a few films of the operation as well. it used a mix of old and new MK5s. http://www.britishpathe.com/video/search-for-kidnapped-officer/query/62115

Tom