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Dioramas
Do you love dioramas & vignettes? We sure do.
Where is, the suffering?
jagerblackcorps
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Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 05:11 AM UTC
I saw a documentary about Himmler and i thought, where is, the suffering in this hobby. I mean the hobby is art but we dont show it as art!

When you buy a kit most soldiers is happy and that's why, it is just a hobby!

The companies and communities dont show the hobby as art!

Do you think the diorama is a art form?

I am sorry about my bad english if this thread is wrong forum please move it.
I am new here
Hohenstaufen
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 05:23 AM UTC
Joel,
I'm not quite clear what you are trying to get at. Are you saying we should suffer for our art - like the starving artist in a garret syndrome? Or are you trying to say that most modellers don't show the darker side of war, the death and destruction? When you ask is it art - well I regard myself simply as an assembler, so no it's a craft. I don't create my models from scratch. There are some who do - look at the Clervaux diorama - that is art in my book, but I don't think the general public sees it that way, nor does the arts establishment (their loss). I do suffer for my craft - my eyesight is definitely going!
oldbean
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 05:39 AM UTC
Every time I go to the hooby shop and buy a new kit, I suffer.

Jesse
sweaver
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 06:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Or are you trying to say that most modellers don't show the darker side of war, the death and destruction?



Joel, I'm assuming this is what you're referring to...

I would argue that modelers DO protray this. Not everyone, but enough that I would hardly say that it is absent. It doesn't have to be a Saving Private Ryan style diorama for the suffering and destruction of war to be conveyed.

Take this one by Dan Capuano as an example.

Or this one, definitely one of my all-time favorites: When Hell Freezes Over

EDIT: Another good one: Angels of Death
jointhepit
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 07:53 AM UTC
Joel; courageous move this topic

I also have been wondering this for years, but you will see that most forums dedicated to modelling fear the "darker" side of modeling, the use of Swastica's is an example. Also scenes of death are not very wanted,nor the portrail of some atrocity or war some sponsors or editors are not cool with.

although I think it isn't easy to really portay the horror of war,like movement and fire and smoke,runnin water, it's a challenge most modellers fear (right they are )

Also i noticed that Eastern forums have bigger tolerance then Us/English forums,even can find weird dio's ,I mean really weird (saw one once that was totally "arty" Ronny Mc Donalds in charge of sort of killin' fields,really strange,but would have taken a long time to make..


As for Himmler,just take a smaller then size fig, file a mm or so of his one leg (have to check witch one ) and add round glasses (comment as sarcasm )


retiredyank
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 08:07 AM UTC
I have never, ever seen a figure with a smile on its face. Soldiers are professional killers. They have all the time in the world to think about that, after they go home.
jrutman
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 08:53 AM UTC
Maybe something like this guy?

jointhepit
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 09:48 AM UTC
cool fig Jerry

BigSood
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 10:14 AM UTC
There used to be a site by the name of ww2modeller.com which no longer exists which had a number of sombre dioramas, the one which struck me the most was entitled "Oh God Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me" which depicted a line of civilians about to be shot by an SS Officer who was looking at his watch so as to record the times of death, whilst being flanked by his troops. It split a lot of opinion but in my opinion it was a well executed piece, it is a shame that people cannot see it to judge it for themselves.
BigSood
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 10:35 AM UTC
http://militarymodels.co.nz/tag/wwii-135-diorama/ Scroll down to the truck explosion dio, for another another of a well executed portrayal of the suffering of war
Removed by original poster on 09/06/13 - 23:10:00 (GMT).
BigSood
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 11:10 AM UTC
http://ricklawler.plastic-garden.com/?p=2050
CReading
#001
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 11:43 AM UTC
Look at any diorama by JBA if you want pure diorama art!

Thanks SWEAVER for mentioning my 'When Hell Freezes Over' diorama. I'm flattered.

1stjaeger
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 07:34 PM UTC

Quoted Text

http://ricklawler.plastic-garden.com/?p=2050



what a masterpiece!! Impressive!

R.
1stjaeger
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 07:43 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Look at any diorama by JBA if you want pure diorama art!

Thanks SWEAVER for mentioning my 'When Hell Freezes Over' diorama. I'm flattered.




this dio deserves more than just a mention IMHO. The composition, the sharp angle, the winterly vegetation, the cold you could almost feel...and now this poor fellow wrapped tightly in his blanket and suffering...that's art if I'm not mistaken!

Kudos to you Sir and thanks for sharing!

Cheers

Romain
Plasticbattle
#003
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 08:32 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Or are you trying to say that most modellers don't show the darker side of war, the death and destruction?


I believe this is the question as well.
The situation is that the online PC gang try to mute and stamp out anything that goes near this topic. Its usually newer modellers who will attempt this and then the chants start that it "might have been OK if you could model or paint" etc etc. Modellers who are better known dont do dioramas like this as it probably wont get printed in your favourite magazine.
The whole attitude pisses me off big time. Im not saying every model should be like a horror scene ... far from it. But anything that is healthy has a good balance of reality ... and modelling today especially here in the western world ... does not have that balance. Look at any webpage ... do the armor models and dioramas reflect the reality of war?
Why should modelling be so heavily cencored? Compared to what can be shown in horror films, war films, run-of-the-mill action films .... even pop videos .... the whole scene is a bit tame. We model war, but please dont show any blood or suffering!
It it art? Not really ... I think its more like a craft. Art in my mind is more about expressing yourself or expressing a feeling or opinion. But when its not PC to express these freely without getting hung out for it, can anybody call what we do as art or free expression?
Ryan made a good point about "Oh God Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me". An excellent dio that really made the goosebumps rise on your arms. There was uproar and the images of the grave bottom had to be removed everywhere and immediately. I will never understand that. That was art. Rick Lawlers "Burden of sorrow" is another piece that is such a powerful scene. I would also consider that as art. There are examples where modelling cross into art. I believe this should be encouraged more.
exer
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 08:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text

There used to be a site by the name of ww2modeller.com which no longer exists which had a number of sombre dioramas, the one which struck me the most was entitled "Oh God Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me" which depicted a line of civilians about to be shot by an SS Officer who was looking at his watch so as to record the times of death, whilst being flanked by his troops. It split a lot of opinion but in my opinion it was a well executed piece, it is a shame that people cannot see it to judge it for themselves.



It is now on tracklink
Karl187
#284
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 10:45 PM UTC
Truly excellent topic for discussion Joel- some of the work posted here is true-art. In war, people suffer and as modellers we build weapons of war, depictions of war, men of war etc- we should not forget the context in which we choose to model.
I can understand if someone objects to a diorama in which there is the idea of violence and brutality and death but they should not seek to censure such things- if one does not wish to see such things then they can choose not to look at that particular piece of work. As Frank said, there are some extremely powerful pieces out there and they do not deserve censorship, the depiction of them, I feel, should be encouraged as an art form.
jagerblackcorps
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: September 03, 2013
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 11:38 PM UTC
I am sorry about my bad english.
most modellers don't show the darker side of war! yes you nailed it!
When they do it's scratch built!
Or when they do they get kicked out of contest
jagerblackcorps
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Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 11:41 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I have never, ever seen a figure with a smile on its face. Soldiers are professional killers. They have all the time in the world to think about that, after they go home.


Buy a standard kit from Tamiya you probably get a smiling soldier rather than a suffering.
jagerblackcorps
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Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: Friday, September 06, 2013 - 11:52 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Or are you trying to say that most modellers don't show the darker side of war, the death and destruction?


I believe this is the question as well.
The situation is that the online PC gang try to mute and stamp out anything that goes near this topic. Its usually newer modellers who will attempt this and then the chants start that it "might have been OK if you could model or paint" etc etc. Modellers who are better known dont do dioramas like this as it probably wont get printed in your favourite magazine.
The whole attitude pisses me off big time. Im not saying every model should be like a horror scene ... far from it. But anything that is healthy has a good balance of reality ... and modelling today especially here in the western world ... does not have that balance. Look at any webpage ... do the armor models and dioramas reflect the reality of war?
Why should modelling be so heavily cencored? Compared to what can be shown in horror films, war films, run-of-the-mill action films .... even pop videos .... the whole scene is a bit tame. We model war, but please dont show any blood or suffering!
It it art? Not really ... I think its more like a craft. Art in my mind is more about expressing yourself or expressing a feeling or opinion. But when its not PC to express these freely without getting hung out for it, can anybody call what we do as art or free expression?
Ryan made a good point about "Oh God Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me". An excellent dio that really made the goosebumps rise on your arms. There was uproar and the images of the grave bottom had to be removed everywhere and immediately. I will never understand that. That was art. Rick Lawlers "Burden of sorrow" is another piece that is such a powerful scene. I would also consider that as art. There are examples where modelling cross into art. I believe this should be encouraged more.



Yes good post. thank you!
jagerblackcorps
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Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 12:00 AM UTC
What goes through your mind when you see something as this?
http://www.track-link.com/gallery/2619/2
CReading
#001
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Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 02:08 AM UTC



Quoted Text

this dio deserves more than just a mention IMHO. The composition, the sharp angle, the winterly vegetation, the cold you could almost feel...and now this poor fellow wrapped tightly in his blanket and suffering...that's art if I'm not mistaken!

Kudos to you Sir and thanks for sharing!

Cheers

Romain



Thank you for the kind comments.

https://gallery.kitmaker.net/showgallery.php?cat=23428

Cheers,
C.
Lonewolf7usa
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Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 02:30 AM UTC
Ok I'm going to stick my 2cents worth in here. I am a former soldier and have seen combat. For me this hobby is therapy as well as hobby. I don't portray the darker side of war because I don't want to. I like to build because it takes my mind off of my injuries sustained while on active duty. I have fun that's all there is to it. So to all I say Just have fun and build what ever you like.
jrutman
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Posted: Saturday, September 07, 2013 - 02:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Ok I'm going to stick my 2cents worth in here. I am a former soldier and have seen combat. For me this hobby is therapy as well as hobby. I don't portray the darker side of war because I don't want to. I like to build because it takes my mind off of my injuries sustained while on active duty. I have fun that's all there is to it. So to all I say Just have fun and build what ever you like.




I am in sort of the same situation brother. I used to make most of my dios of guys standing around or resting or doing menial things because although I also say combat,most of my time in the Army was rather boring and involved a lot of hard work.
Lately though,as a frustrated film maker I decided to make "movies" with my dios and try in my humble way to show some drama. I am not as talented as some of the guys on this thread that's for sure though. But I still try as it keeps my brain from going to those dark places.
J
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