Armor/AFV: What If?
For those who like to build hypothetical or alternate history versions of armor/AFVs.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Landkreuzer P-1000 Ratte
TacFireGuru
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: December 25, 2004
KitMaker: 3,770 posts
Armorama: 2,263 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 07:37 PM UTC
Crap. Just dawned on me: School's out this week for the summer. My wife works at one of the Junior High's and today is her last day. All the districts take Summer Break within a week or so of each other.

Back to the machinist in town or Shapeway's.

In the mean time, I'll finish riveting the turret and see about working on some of the less delicate detailing (so I don't dick it up while handling it).

So far, seems that the "wing" covers appear to be okay - no negative comments here or on an FB page I've posted to - so I'll mount them when the rivets are all in.

Mike
Darkonar
Visit this Community
Region de Coguimbo, Chile
Joined: November 19, 2014
KitMaker: 60 posts
Armorama: 49 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 23, 2015 - 09:32 PM UTC
The extra riveting on the wing covers is quite pleasing to the eye, it adds variety to the turret, definitely no complains here.
TacFireGuru
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: December 25, 2004
KitMaker: 3,770 posts
Armorama: 2,263 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 24, 2015 - 12:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The extra riveting on the wing covers is quite pleasing to the eye, it adds variety to the turret, definitely no complains here.



Thank you Nicolás. Just confirms to me that I won't remove any.

Mike
Bluestab
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: December 03, 2009
KitMaker: 2,160 posts
Armorama: 1,906 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 24, 2015 - 09:50 AM UTC
The wing covers are fine and I think that they and the rivets break up the smoothness of the large turret side plates.

Hopefully you'll find a solution to the barrel issue. Have you thought about wood? Get a few dowels and have them lathed to shape. Probably cheaper and probably would weigh less than aluminum and 3d resin.
TacFireGuru
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: December 25, 2004
KitMaker: 3,770 posts
Armorama: 2,263 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 07:50 PM UTC
Alex,

I've got a small and large wood lathe. I like the idea of metal or plastic better though. Pen makers (wood) use CA glue as a sealer/finish on their pens. I'll have to research the method so I can give it a smooth finish. The wood's grain could be the nemesis to this material.

I should hear back from the machinist before long.

I hope to get some more done on the turret today...now that I'm laid off...however, for a new job, I have this hugely LONG security form to fill out. It's taking forever to do....

Mike
Bluestab
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: December 03, 2009
KitMaker: 2,160 posts
Armorama: 1,906 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 - 01:11 AM UTC
Mike,
I tend to agree. My father suggested wood as an alternative to a metal barrel. He said wood should be lighter and less costly to make. My concerns would be the opening not looking too thick. I'm not a wood worker so I have no idea.

I'm interested to see how you handle the barrels and mount them. I think metal would be you best way to go. Are you going with 3 barrel sections with each section straight? Or are you going to taper one or more sections? Some pictures/drawings appear tapered and others don't.

Either way, great work and can't wait to see the work continue. Ad good luck on the new job.


TacFireGuru
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: December 25, 2004
KitMaker: 3,770 posts
Armorama: 2,263 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 - 01:43 AM UTC
This is the design of the barrel:


Mike
barkingdigger
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
#013
Visit this Community
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,403 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 - 02:18 AM UTC
Hi Mike,

Interesting drawing - where'd you get it? I just emailed you my take on the gun, which is a tad less beefy at the front section. (11 vs 14mm diameter in 1:35)
TacFireGuru
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: December 25, 2004
KitMaker: 3,770 posts
Armorama: 2,263 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 - 02:36 AM UTC
Tom,

Check my reply. I kinda went back to the drawing board and redid measurements based on the initial data I received way back when (jeez, how long ago was that?? ).

Mike
Removed by original poster on 05/28/15 - 02:16:29 (GMT).
gomomma
Visit this Community
United States
Joined: April 15, 2015
KitMaker: 3 posts
Armorama: 3 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 31, 2015 - 04:39 AM UTC
Hey everyone I have a question, I am new to making models and have found that my brushes constantly get ruined and I don't know how to take care of them.Any tips will help. Thanks In advance!

-Cross
Darkonar
Visit this Community
Region de Coguimbo, Chile
Joined: November 19, 2014
KitMaker: 60 posts
Armorama: 49 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 31, 2015 - 06:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey everyone I have a question, I am new to making models and have found that my brushes constantly get ruined and I don't know how to take care of them.Any tips will help. Thanks In advance!

-Cross



Welcome to the hobby and to this forum! There are proper sections in this forum to ask such questions, and this isn't one of them, but here you go.

Pax.
Dragon164
#226
Visit this Community
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: February 20, 2012
KitMaker: 1,909 posts
Armorama: 1,066 posts
Posted: Monday, June 01, 2015 - 07:44 AM UTC
Mike,
How about making wood barrels and using them to cast resin ones.

Cheers Rob.
TacFireGuru
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: December 25, 2004
KitMaker: 3,770 posts
Armorama: 2,263 posts
Posted: Monday, June 01, 2015 - 08:04 AM UTC
Rob, nothing is off the table yet. Haven't heard from the machinist yet...I'll call tomorrow.

I think if I turned them in wood and coated ("polished") them with CA glue, that'd be fine. The CA will fill in the grain and give it almost a glass-finish.

Local 3D printing is definitely out, but Shapeway's is a possible.

Mike
salt6
Visit this Community
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: February 17, 2002
KitMaker: 796 posts
Armorama: 574 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 07:16 AM UTC
How about contacting Aber?

http://www.aber.net.pl/catalog.html

http://www.aber.net.pl/contact.html
TacFireGuru
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: December 25, 2004
KitMaker: 3,770 posts
Armorama: 2,263 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 07:44 AM UTC
I may now have this covered. A discussion with another modeler that was unexpected (in a good way).

Cost would be the issue Steve. Especially for only two. Someone else checked with a company in Poland(?) about this; was not something they'd do for such a small quantity or at a price that would make it affordable.

The local machinist and I spoke briefly today: add $45 to the total because of that 100 mm slope/angle in the center section that goes from 21.5 mm to 17 mm. Requires some extra set-up. Don't have a total yet.

Options are still open...more on that once I get more info.

Mike
165thspc
#521
Visit this Community
Kentucky, United States
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,465 posts
Armorama: 8,695 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 08:22 AM UTC
This may have been covered elsewhere but you will also want the machinist to dill the small end of the barrel to represent the bore. He may want to do this as a first step or do it last thing in the process, depending on the hardness of the material used.

As an aside: I feel strongly that these barrels could be built up out of a number of layers of concentric plastic tubing and then turned to a final profile on either a machinist's or a woodturning lathe. One would have to temporarily slide a close fitting metal rod into the bore to make the plastic barrel strong enough to not bend away from the cutting/dressing tool as you put the finish taper on it.
Bluestab
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: December 03, 2009
KitMaker: 2,160 posts
Armorama: 1,906 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 - 08:41 AM UTC
Mike,

Why not make a go of it with wood. You have the equipment and the cost should be negligible. At the least, it'll give you a working mock-up set of barrels. Worse case, you toss em as a lesson learned.

I'd still go metal if possible. Maybe see if you can find a hobbyist or a machinist willing to work off the clock for a little bit of money.

Or ask around online at some of these machine shops (like emachineshop.com) or even machinist message boards. Get a few quotes and go with the best price. You might get lucky and find some bloke with a new CNC lathe he's itching to play with. Dad restores old furniture as a hobby and shops around for replacement metal pieces like that.

Good luck. It's a great project and a great piece of work you've done.

TacFireGuru
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: December 25, 2004
KitMaker: 3,770 posts
Armorama: 2,263 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 07:08 PM UTC
Bah. Ran out out .070 rivets. More on order.

Finishing up a campaign build as I wait. As soon as it's ready for paint, I'll spray the helipad's circles and do one of the Kugelblitz's I have primed.

Mike
Drac67
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Joined: December 14, 2013
KitMaker: 35 posts
Armorama: 35 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 14, 2015 - 11:44 PM UTC
Hi Mike, I have been following your work like many of us since Day 1 and all I can say is, I salute you ! Splendid work, Buddy !

Marc
salt6
Visit this Community
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: February 17, 2002
KitMaker: 796 posts
Armorama: 574 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 18, 2015 - 07:29 AM UTC
There's a thread going on at http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,40345.75.html

with some speculative info.





This one gives an idea of the layout with some crew numbers for a three gun turret.

TacFireGuru
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: December 25, 2004
KitMaker: 3,770 posts
Armorama: 2,263 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 18, 2015 - 09:21 AM UTC
I like that turret layout Steve. Nice picture.

Rivets arrived! Turret top rivets are done.

Working on the template for the helipad rings. Paint soon.

Mike
CallSignHuck
Visit this Community
Maryland, United States
Joined: February 18, 2015
KitMaker: 23 posts
Armorama: 1 posts
Posted: Friday, June 19, 2015 - 04:42 PM UTC
Tac --

Much respect for the dedication you're showing. What an ambitious project! I've gone back and read the thread through. No pearls to throw in but following with high interest. Go get 'em!

Huck
TacFireGuru
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Joined: December 25, 2004
KitMaker: 3,770 posts
Armorama: 2,263 posts
Posted: Monday, June 22, 2015 - 05:19 PM UTC
Thanks for the comments Huck. It's taking time but it's enjoyable. (mostly )

Finishing up a couple things on the bench...need to get them done and put up so I have room. Appears I've found the solution to the barrels. This will really make a difference to this build and my feelings of "accomplishment." It's a big step in the right direction.

Got six shots in my lower back (to "burn" the nerve endings) at three of my discs. Gotta take it real easy right now...no heavy work (to wit - tile work or anything else in the house). Does leave me more time for the bench.

I think it's time for some wood, the belt sander, some thin sheet brass, and workshop time to get the things on the back of the turret started...and the base for the sights.

Goodness...really, where to begin again.

Mike
DG0542
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: March 04, 2015
KitMaker: 125 posts
Armorama: 125 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 - 05:21 AM UTC
Would the barrels for the K7 rail gun work?