I don't think I've seen that setup they have in the back before.. anyone know what that is? Is it Grad missiles?



Hisham

Hi Hisham,
Maybe it is made in Your backyard ;-)
From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM-21_Grad#Egypt
"Egypt[edit]

The Egyptians domestically manufacture the rockets Sakr-18 and Sakr-36, with a respective range of 18 km (11 mi) and 36 km (22 mi), and the latest Sakr-45 with a superior range of 45 km (28 mi). Rather than a standard HE-Frag round, the Egyptian military prefers a 23-kilogram (51 lb) cluster munition, which can be extremely effective against lightly armored equipment and troop concentrations. Both rockets, as well as the original Soviet models of course, are fired by locally manufactured rocket launchers like the RL-21 (copy of BM-11) and RC-21 (copy of BM-21, similar to the Hadid HM20). The Helwan Machine Tools Company also produces portable systems with one, three, four and eight launch tubes.
"

http://www.nti.org/facilities/409/ (about Helwan)

Seems to be an RL-4 launcher (sometimes called SAKR-4) (made in Egypt) ...
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/rl4.htm more images on that web-site. The aiming/traversing device seems to be home made based on some heavy machine gun ??

/ Robin

and I just LOVE this one:

Thanks for the info, Robin.. by the way, Sakr means Hawk or Falcon

It's strange that it's Egyptian made, because as far as I know relations between Mubarak and Gaddafi weren't good.. but maybe they got them after the January 25th uprising and Mubarak was ousted? I don't know much about the Egyptian military, and I try not to ask around.. safer this way

I wonder if the rig that carries the rocket tubes would be easy to scratch?

Hisham

Here's a nice close-up from one of the links you posted. From the other pics I saw, it looks like there were many shapes and sizes for the carrying rig.. so, I'm thinking there's probably room for some improvisation



Hisham

Hi Hisham,
I wonder if the tubes for the 4-tube launcher are really the shortened versions or if they have been taken from destroyed Grad launchers ? Maybe you could compare sizes and make a guess based on the size of those pickups ?
/ Robin

Hmmm... the mount looks like a ZU-23-2. Maybe a kitbash with a ZU-23-2 kit and some 3.5mm Plastruct or Evergreen tubes?
H.-H.

Thanks for the suggestion, Hans-Hermann.. I was wondering what size tubes I should use

Hisham

Interesting vehicle.

I've been using al Baz.

Hi Hisham,
The missiles are 122 mm and a fairly tight fit inside the tubes so say that the inside is 125 mm and then add maybe 5 mm of thickness -> 125 + 5 + 5 = 135 mm
Divide by 35 -> 3,85 mm which is probably hard to find so
I guess you could use 4 mm tubes ;-)

/ Robin

Robert.. excuse my ignorance, but what is "al Baz"?

Thanks for the explanation, Robin.. I'll look for some plastic tubes that size

Hisham

Hmmm... Apparently not MSA, that's for sure. Possibly Iraqi dialect for "hawk."

I'd also suggest looking at plastic straws. Many slight variations in sizes, and more prototypical wall thickness.

Oh, OK.. I thought you were talking about some kind of weapon Actually, Al-baz is one of the words for Falcon in "old classical" Arabic mostly used in the Gulf area.. not in my neck of the woods

Hisham

Old Classical, Modern Standard, I can annoy people in a variety of ways. You should hear my Cantonese. My wife swears I speak it with a Vietnamese accent.

Haha ! I have a colleague (Swedish) who learned to speak Czech (proper name of language ??) and the mother of the young lady he was dating said that he spoke with a Russian dialect (this was in the days when the USSR had security officers in Czechoslovakia to keep an eye on the Czechs ...)
Speaking with a russian dialect certainly got peoples attention ...
/ Robin

In the last close-up picture you also see the switchboard to fire the rocket tubes.
Funny...Just 4 simple switches to turn on the lights in your livingroom are used to fire missiletubes.

Interesting thread Hisham!!

Shukran my friend for bringing it up!!

Drinking straws could indeed be an option! From the photos, the tubes seem fairly thin-walled. A bit of a surprise indeed, as the blast is probably quite impressive (given the ranges intended).

I would be 30 years younger, nothing could keep me away from the technicals!!! Scratching in great "liberty", endless conversion potential, interesting dio scenarios galore....that's modellers' paradise IMHO!!!

Especially love the pic with the agro tractor!!!! Brilliant!!!!

Cheers

Romain

Hisham mate i been have a good look at those tubes and working with the size of the Toyota and my back ground in engineering ( ie i measured some stuff ) the best i can come up with is about 6.5 inches dia ,,all ya need now is some one who can do the math to convert 6.5 inches to 1/35th scale and ya good to go
Just a guess but 3 or 3.5mm alloy tubing might work .
Have to agree ..that tractor is very very cool
Cheers

Phill

You'll be surprised at how different spoken Arabic is from one region to another.. When I watch TV shows from the Gulf, half the time I can't understand what they're saying... I was born and raised in Lebanon, so when my wife (born and raised here in Egypt) hears me talking to one of my Lebanese or Syrian friends, she always has to ask me what the Hell I was saying to him

Hisham

If you really look closely you can see how the lead actually hooks up to the rocket. The base cap is separated from the main rocket body by a rubber O ring. One lead touches each portion. We set these off with a ten cap blaster, but I think even a Claymore trigger will work. From what I can tell these differ from the Grad, which had little spring loaded curved "fingers" to keep the rocket from sliding backwards out of the tube.

Robin - today my thirty year old Danish still worked. On a Norwegian officer no less. That must have been interesting to his ears - a horrible Danish/English transmogrification of his own language.

A little but OT.. if you guys think that tractor is funny...



Hisham

Some of the tv footage i've seen it shows what those blokes used as their triggers ... light switches .
I thought that was a simple brilliant bit of thinking ..they are either off or on .. and so easy to get ..nice bit of thinking there guys

A related question.. I was looking for pics of how the rockets are stored and I found this one with the caption saying (FSA unpacking Grad rocket).. I can't tell, but are they stored two rockets per crate?

Anyone have a better pic of how they are stored and how the crates look?



Hisham

The tubes are thin since the blast from firing goes out the back. Hint: Do not ever stand behind such a launcher when firing, the flame and blast WILL kill you ;-)
They are "simple" tubes/pipes. Their only purpose is to keep the rocket on track until it has enough speed to keep stable. There is also a single spiral groove inside the tube to give the rocket a spin.

Film from inside the drivers cabin when firing a BM-21 Grad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUwhz_Q9Aqc
Sequence of pictures from the outside showing the thickness of the tubes and the back-blast:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc1tcdkJhq4
/ Robin

One more question.. Luckymodel has some aluminum and brass tubes by Albion Alloys.. but what can I use to cut those?

I'mm also looking for plastic tubing from Evergreen

Hisham