Dragon: 1/35 T54E1 - Smart Kit "Black Label"
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Monday, December 07, 2015 - 05:32 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I have the M48A3 and I haven't looked at it closely but I believe that kit is OK?
It's not perfect (e.g. road wheels could certainly be better), but generally pretty good.
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Monday, December 07, 2015 - 05:36 PM UTC
Quoted Text
What about those sketches? Are you not allowed to share them?
No, I'm not. But maybe the author could - he visits Armorama from time to time (and his name was already mentioned in this thread)
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: January 01, 2010
KitMaker: 717 posts
Armorama: 697 posts
Posted: Monday, December 07, 2015 - 06:02 PM UTC
compared to the conqueror its a work of art
Budapest, Hungary
Joined: July 04, 2009
KitMaker: 47 posts
Armorama: 46 posts
Posted: Monday, December 07, 2015 - 06:44 PM UTC
Who is the targeted customer of Black Label kits? This is a good question. Considering Italeri WOT series the answer is clear> gamers. But Black label kits having is 2-3 times higher price than Italeri kits. I would say for gamers BL kits are too expensive, for modelers they are just toys.
Additionally I am not so sure Dragon making any money on these kits, there are rumors about Dragon Model division financial difficulties.
I heard a story that Dragon did not have the money ordering all the extras from 3rd parties, for the re-released Tigers. All these re-release now missing PE, barrel etc at an increased price point.
I hope these are just rumors, and Dragon is working hard improving they new kits.
W`ll see
Region de Coguimbo, Chile
Joined: November 19, 2014
KitMaker: 60 posts
Armorama: 49 posts
Posted: Monday, December 07, 2015 - 07:31 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Who is the targeted customer of Black Label kits? This is a good question. Considering Italeri WOT series the answer is clear> gamers. But Black label kits having is 2-3 times higher price than Italeri kits. I would say for gamers BL kits are too expensive, for modelers they are just toys.
Additionally I am not so sure Dragon making any money on these kits, there are rumors about Dragon Model division financial difficulties.
I heard a story that Dragon did not have the money ordering all the extras from 3rd parties, for the re-released Tigers. All these re-release now missing PE, barrel etc at an increased price point.
I hope these are just rumors, and Dragon is working hard improving they new kits.
W`ll see
Who knows.. Maybe it implies more money goes to Disney toys development and production in detriment of the scale model department? Their Facebook page certainly looks more like a toy shop page than a scale model producer's.
Currently on workbench:
Tamiya M26 Pershing
Dragon/RPM Hummel
SgtRam
Contributing Writer #197
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 06, 2011
KitMaker: 3,971 posts
Armorama: 2,859 posts
Posted: Monday, December 07, 2015 - 08:30 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Who knows.. Maybe it implies more money goes to Disney toys development and production in detriment of the scale model department? Their Facebook page certainly looks more like a toy shop page than a scale model producer's.
And Dragon just announced they have acquired the rights for Star Wars, so makes you wonder where the main effort and money is going.
Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Monday, December 07, 2015 - 08:53 PM UTC
Quoted Text
And Dragon just announced they have acquired the rights for Star Wars, so makes you wonder where the main effort and money is going.
All right! A bobblehead Darth Vader!
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Monday, December 07, 2015 - 09:20 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
And Dragon just announced they have acquired the rights for Star Wars, so makes you wonder where the main effort and money is going.
All right! A bobblehead Darth Vader!
Certainly NOT TO BLACK LABEL... It seems that DRAGON "WILL SPARE NO EXPENSE", (their quotes) for Tiger Is, except to delete "Magic Tracks", good PE, Clear parts, Optional parts, and Metal Barrels. "DS" Tracks do not a good WWII German Tank make, although I have no problem with them for US Vehicles, since most ("most" being a key word, here) US Vehicles utilize "Live Tracks", which are supposed to be adjusted as tightly as possible without binding the suspension's moving parts...
I have my doubts over BLACK PLAGUE's new T54E1...
"STAR WARS, The Empire Awakens", and goes back to sleep...
#417
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
Armorama: 2,539 posts
Posted: Monday, December 07, 2015 - 10:16 PM UTC
I try not to ask too much. I don't need all the detail in the world nor all the extra parts or options. All I want is a kit where the shapes are basically accurate.
Want to save tooling money by moulding on the handles and periscopes and even the tools? Go right ahead, but please let the underlying shapes and locations of features be correct. I can fix everything else easily and am happy to pay a higher price for an accurate niche kit of a really cool subject like this.
Reshaping kits or putting them through a chop shop, as Pavel did on the M103A1, I can still do, but it pretty much sucks the fun out of the build and make me not want to spend anything like full market price for such a kit.
Others' mileage may vary.
Paul
Paul Roberts
Past Editor, Boresight
Armor Modeling and Preservation Society
Alberta, Canada
Joined: February 18, 2003
KitMaker: 1,728 posts
Armorama: 1,629 posts
Posted: Monday, December 07, 2015 - 10:36 PM UTC
Hmmm, 45 million WoT users vs what, 5000 'serious' modellers around the world (and I'm being optimistic I think). You can complain all you want to but don't expect much...
Jim
"Fire all weapons and open a hailing frequency for my victory yodel" - Zapp Brannigan
Alabama, United States
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Monday, December 07, 2015 - 11:20 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hmmm, 45 million WoT users vs what, 5000 'serious' modellers around the world (and I'm being optimistic I think). You can complain all you want to but don't expect much...
Jim
And we won't get it!. For many of the Black Label kits I wouldn't mind some general shape innacuracies as I don't know the tanks well enough to have noticed had it not been pointed out. My issue is the badly simplified detail, which stands out greatly even if you don't know the tank. Many areas of the Conqueror were like that. If it was a tank that I was passionate about I'd be willing to tear it apart and redetail it but for t what they've had, I don't have the interest in the subject to spend that time when I could be building a good kit of another tank. Thank God Merit is tackling the T29 series and Trumpeter did the IS-7.
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: January 01, 2010
KitMaker: 717 posts
Armorama: 697 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 12:00 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hmmm, 45 million WoT users vs what, 5000 'serious' modellers around the world (and I'm being optimistic I think). You can complain all you want to but don't expect much...
Jim
Can't argue with economics, but you can with assumptions:
1. this figure assumes most if not all WOT players are interested in models. Maybe they are. Maybe they'd rather play WOT than building models
2. it assumes Dragon are after this market; in which case why release a Saladin; is there even one in the game
3. it presupposes its an 'either or' situation. If we're talking pure economics why not make it less terrible so you can sell to more people?
Just playing Devil's Advocate
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: January 01, 2010
KitMaker: 717 posts
Armorama: 697 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 12:02 AM UTC
Addendum, if they were that bothered about chasing wot why not do what italeri are doing and repop old kits cheap that feature in teh game and stick a 'World of W...Tanks' sticker on it?
Alberta, Canada
Joined: February 18, 2003
KitMaker: 1,728 posts
Armorama: 1,629 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 01:52 AM UTC
All true, but just think if even just 1% of those players want to try building a model of 'their' tank, that's 450,000 kits sold! Hey, I'm with you, if we're paying $80+ for a kit, it would be great to get what you payed for, but until manufacturers figure it out (if they even care), we get what we get. I guess the bottom line is don't like it, don't buy it; send them a message.
Jim
"Fire all weapons and open a hailing frequency for my victory yodel" - Zapp Brannigan
England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: January 01, 2010
KitMaker: 717 posts
Armorama: 697 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 02:19 AM UTC
Quoted Text
All true, but just think if even just 1% of those players want to try building a model of 'their' tank, that's 450,000 kits sold! Hey, I'm with you, if we're paying $80+ for a kit, it would be great to get what you payed for, but until manufacturers figure it out (if they even care), we get what we get. I guess the bottom line is don't like it, don't buy it; send them a message.
Jim
Sound logic all round
Luckily there are lots of companies now delivering the gods. DML are no longer at the cutting edge of quality. Unless its a subject somebody *has* to have (and when is it ever really, when you there is so much choice) then go buy and enjoy something else
My disappointment with the conqueror was largely due to the £55 I dropped to find out it was so bad
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 08:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
I have the M48A3 and I haven't looked at it closely but I believe that kit is OK?
It's not perfect (e.g. road wheels could certainly be better), but generally pretty good.
From what I've read on this site Pavel, the second M48A3 kit is a little bit improved over the initial M48A3 Mod.B kit... Comments to this are welcome!
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 08:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
All true, but just think if even just 1% of those players want to try building a model of 'their' tank, that's 450,000 kits sold! Hey, I'm with you, if we're paying $80+ for a kit, it would be great to get what you payed for, but until manufacturers figure it out (if they even care), we get what we get. I guess the bottom line is don't like it, don't buy it; send them a message.
Jim
"They" don't listen...
New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 08:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Even though the Black Label series may not be completely accurate, I think their products are pretty interesting. In my opinion I would be more interested in seeing one of these being built rather than a usual panther or Sherman build. Although the details are exact, I would still enjoy building this kit imho
Yeah, BLACK LABEL DOES put out some interesting subject matter. I just wish that they would do a better job when they do...
Colorado, United States
Joined: February 06, 2002
KitMaker: 1,526 posts
Armorama: 1,294 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 09:19 AM UTC
Quoted Text
what, 5000 'serious' modellers around the world (and I'm being optimistic I think). You can complain all you want to but don't expect much...
Jim
Nah Jim, you're being conservative I think. There are more of us.
I am pretty sure Japan, South Korea, China (including Hong Kong), and Taiwan combined would have more than 5,000 serious modellers. It doesn't seem as popular in North America for sure.
Happy modeling!
Warning: possible addiction may occur.
Currently on the bench: Maquette T-34/76
Shanghai, China / 简体
Joined: August 30, 2013
KitMaker: 15 posts
Armorama: 15 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 10:14 AM UTC
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've seen relatively few modelers ever finish kits of prototypes or paper tanks. Perhaps most of these purchases simply come from a spasm of seeking novelty or other interests unrelated to the appearance of tanks themselves(say, games).
Connecticut, United States
Joined: April 02, 2005
KitMaker: 3,608 posts
Armorama: 3,092 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 10:15 AM UTC
There are 100 million World of Tanks players worldwide. I've seen 5000 serious modelers at one AMPS show. so that number is also much much higher!
Best,
Matt
SSG, INF, USA (Ret.)
"I am waiting for the tanks, and the Americans."
General Philippe Petain, September 1917
Shanghai, China / 简体
Joined: August 30, 2013
KitMaker: 15 posts
Armorama: 15 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 12:52 PM UTC
Oh, another thing. After posting this thread I begin doubting whether there are really periscopes on the cupola(it will be funny if there aren't but fact is needed). Then I found this
So yes, there are periscopes on the it. Pawel, if possible would you send this photo to the dragon?(I assume they don't have it)
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 02:48 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Pawel, if possible would you send this photo to the dragon?(I assume they don't have it)
The sketches they have show the correct cupola quite clearly, so I'm sure they already know how it is supposed to look like. By the way, I was told that I will receive the final CAD design for review once it's done, so if there are still any major flaws left at that point, I will have a chance to catch them.
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
Shanghai, China / 简体
Joined: August 30, 2013
KitMaker: 15 posts
Armorama: 15 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 04:18 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Pawel, if possible would you send this photo to the dragon?(I assume they don't have it)
The sketches they have show the correct cupola quite clearly, so I'm sure they already know how it is supposed to look like. By the way, I was told that I will receive the final CAD design for review once it's done, so if there are still any major flaws left at that point, I will have a chance to catch them.
Have they checked the hatch on the turret rear? The photo I posted earlier shows that it is a little bit more to the left than shown in the CAD. It should also protrude more. The ventilator on the right corner is a little bit misaligned to me as well.
Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 04:28 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Have they checked the hatch on the turret rear? The photo I posted earlier shows that it is a little bit more to the left than shown in the CAD. It should also protrude more.
I don't know what they've checked and what they haven't, but again: the sketches show correct placement of the hatch.
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.