Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Mario Matijasic
Dragon: 1/35 T54E1 - Smart Kit "Black Label"
Medalofdead
Joined: August 30, 2013
KitMaker: 15 posts
Armorama: 15 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 04:44 PM UTC
Alright then. Let's hope Dragon handle it smoothly.
SEDimmick
Joined: March 15, 2002
KitMaker: 1,745 posts
Armorama: 1,483 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 06:14 PM UTC
Just wanted to remind some people about Dragon and they complaining about their Disney licensing deal...
Some you might not remember, but Dragon was in bad shape in the late 1990s, after all of their plastic model releases starting in 1989(I think, might have been 1990) and the only thing that saved their bacon was the much derided 1/6 "battle barbies" the did at the time.
Then they released the Tiger I kit in 2005, which much like then new Tamiya Tiger I in 1989, launched the current Golden Age we are enjoying now in 1/35 scale.
Point being, its really hard to survive on plastic model releases only..most of the "successful" companies have other products that they make $$ off of...and Dragon having a Disney licence for Marvel and now Star Wars will keep the company healthy long term, which will hopefully translate into better 1/35 kits from them.
Anyways, back on subject...I'm really looking forward to this release! We haven't even seen it in resin, which makes it all the better. Hopefully its not too jacked up.
Some you might not remember, but Dragon was in bad shape in the late 1990s, after all of their plastic model releases starting in 1989(I think, might have been 1990) and the only thing that saved their bacon was the much derided 1/6 "battle barbies" the did at the time.
Then they released the Tiger I kit in 2005, which much like then new Tamiya Tiger I in 1989, launched the current Golden Age we are enjoying now in 1/35 scale.
Point being, its really hard to survive on plastic model releases only..most of the "successful" companies have other products that they make $$ off of...and Dragon having a Disney licence for Marvel and now Star Wars will keep the company healthy long term, which will hopefully translate into better 1/35 kits from them.
Anyways, back on subject...I'm really looking forward to this release! We haven't even seen it in resin, which makes it all the better. Hopefully its not too jacked up.
leonhzy
Joined: August 12, 2013
KitMaker: 88 posts
Armorama: 87 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 08:31 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Just wanted to remind some people about Dragon and they complaining about their Disney licensing deal...
Some you might not remember, but Dragon was in bad shape in the late 1990s, after all of their plastic model releases starting in 1989(I think, might have been 1990) and the only thing that saved their bacon was the much derided 1/6 "battle barbies" the did at the time.
Then they released the Tiger I kit in 2005, which much like then new Tamiya Tiger I in 1989, launched the current Golden Age we are enjoying now in 1/35 scale.
Point being, its really hard to survive on plastic model releases only..most of the "successful" companies have other products that they make $$ off of...and Dragon having a Disney licence for Marvel and now Star Wars will keep the company healthy long term, which will hopefully translate into better 1/35 kits from them.
Anyways, back on subject...I'm really looking forward to this release! We haven't even seen it in resin, which makes it all the better. Hopefully its not too jacked up.
truth has been spoken.
ninjrk
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 01:40 AM UTC
I will say that I am rather excited about Dragon getting the Star Wars license, especially is the rumor is that they will be focusing on the original trilogy and in a larger scale. The fact that their first teaser was a 1/35 AT-AT makes me very happy. It will be huge, and I will buy it. With Merit doing the T29 family and Trumpeter owning the cold war Soviet market, I confess outside of WW2 German I'm not to worried what Dragon does as I probably won't buy it. Unless they do a Black Prince or ARL 44, whereupon I will be praying daily that they don't stuff it up!
Petition2God
Joined: February 06, 2002
KitMaker: 1,526 posts
Armorama: 1,294 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 08:25 AM UTC
Henry,
I noticed that you live in Shanghai, China. Doesn't DML have an office there? Have you tried to contact them directly in China? I am curious as to if they are nicer to their own fellow countryman than some foreign consumer. (I guess they are non-discriminatorily ignoring everyone but wanted to ask you anyway.)
James
I noticed that you live in Shanghai, China. Doesn't DML have an office there? Have you tried to contact them directly in China? I am curious as to if they are nicer to their own fellow countryman than some foreign consumer. (I guess they are non-discriminatorily ignoring everyone but wanted to ask you anyway.)
James
Oddball007
Joined: July 17, 2009
KitMaker: 76 posts
Armorama: 70 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 09:23 AM UTC
Interesting looking Tank, would be good to see it firing. 
Medalofdead
Joined: August 30, 2013
KitMaker: 15 posts
Armorama: 15 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 01:17 PM UTC
I don't know more than someone who can put strings in the Dragon in this thread...
leonhzy
Joined: August 12, 2013
KitMaker: 88 posts
Armorama: 87 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 - 03:56 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Henry,
I noticed that you live in Shanghai, China. Doesn't DML have an office there? Have you tried to contact them directly in China? I am curious as to if they are nicer to their own fellow countryman than some foreign consumer. (I guess they are non-discriminatorily ignoring everyone but wanted to ask you anyway.)
James
Dragon Shanghai had their own product line back in the 90s, like the old M1 Abrams, T-72 and T-80. Some of them r still available as "orange box"
Later on it become distributor only, for Mainland China. And now they decide to shut it down at the end of this year.
But they set up another office in Shenzhen,Which is next to Hong Kong. Probably just for Marvel and Disney stuff.
Dragon seems to be nicer toward western customers cause pricing in mainland china r the lowest compare to other country, so does profit.
The_Chieftain
Joined: October 01, 2011
KitMaker: 11 posts
Armorama: 11 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 - 11:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Remigijus,
Ironically WG has refined the model itself recently though I don't believe they have done the research either.
Actually, we do.
The first T54E1 they (The WoT developers in Minsk) made, (The one that looks like DML's CAD above), they worked mainly off what they saw in Hunnicutt, particularly the line drawings. It was obviously not perfect, but it wasn't until I went to the T54E1 in Aberdeen to measure the armor thickness that I really figured out just how wrong the in-game model was.
So I told Minsk that the shape needed changing, and with what photos I took from Aberdeen, they made it a tad more rounded. However, the true shape of the turret is really, really hard to figure out from photographs, especially with that perfectly matt finish the tank has on it right now, so it still wasn't right. The thing is very 'blended', I guess, between horizontal and vertical.
I followed the tank to Anniston, and took a whole bunch more photos, this time after swinging by Home Depot to get some masking tape to try to 'grid out' contours, a quick video walkaround, and sent that up to them. I just saw a preview of the new WoT T54E1 model (To be implemented in a month or two), I'm still not sure it's perfect, but it's a lot better than it was.
If Dragon is interested, I'm sure we can come to some form of arrangement where we can give them information. There is some precedent, we did an information share with Finemolds. Of course, I'd need to talk with someone at Dragon...
MikeyBugs95
Joined: May 27, 2013
KitMaker: 2,210 posts
Armorama: 1,712 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 12:11 AM UTC
Wow. Mr. Moran himself is here. Nice to see ya here! It'd be great, I think, if WG could partner with Dragon so they might produce some kits of lesser known subjects WOT is famous for. Hopefully they'll produce less of them under the Black Label line and more under their regular or Smart Kit lines...
On a related note, do you do any building?
On a related note, do you do any building?
Cantstopbuyingkits
Joined: January 28, 2015
KitMaker: 2,099 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 12:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Wow. Mr. Moran himself is here. Nice to see ya here! It'd be great, I think, if WG could partner with Dragon so they might produce some kits of lesser known subjects WOT is famous for. Hopefully they'll produce less of them under the Black Label line and more under their regular or Smart Kit lines...
It would at least be better than WG's current partnership with Italeri, that's for sure.
The_Chieftain
Joined: October 01, 2011
KitMaker: 11 posts
Armorama: 11 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 02:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
On a related note, do you do any building?
I might do a little, here and there...
https://static-ptl-us.gcdn.co/dcont/fb/imagesforarticles/chieftains_hatch/ihobby/puma2.jpg
https://static-ptl-us.gcdn.co/dcont/fb/image/proj7.jpg
https://static-ptl-us.gcdn.co/dcont/fb/imagesforarticles/chieftains_hatch/ihobby/mardwiesel.jpg
https://static-ptl-us.gcdn.co/dcont/fb/imagesforarticles/chieftains_hatch/ihobby/pzh1.jpg
https://static-ptl-us.gcdn.co/dcont/fb/imagesforarticles/chieftains_hatch/ihobby/bluestank3.jpg
https://static-ptl-us.gcdn.co/dcont/fb/imagesforarticles/chieftains_hatch/ihobby/sd40.jpg
https://static-ptl-us.gcdn.co/dcont/fb/imagesforarticles/chieftains_hatch/ihobby/m602.jpg
DazzaD
Joined: June 17, 2007
KitMaker: 235 posts
Armorama: 232 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 08:55 AM UTC
This is very welcome news to see the T54E1 in plastic!! I know the Black Label has a bad name for itself so far but I for one, am just very happy to see some of these tank types in plastic. The resin kits are WAY TOO $$$ for my league.
Loving all these cold war beasts and rarities! Would love to see some of the Frenchies get a show too like the ARL44 or better still the AMX 50. That is one sexy looking beast. Loved it ever since I saw it at Saumur.
Waiting for my M103a2 to get delivered. Have been waiting for that one in plastic for years!
Loving all these cold war beasts and rarities! Would love to see some of the Frenchies get a show too like the ARL44 or better still the AMX 50. That is one sexy looking beast. Loved it ever since I saw it at Saumur.
Waiting for my M103a2 to get delivered. Have been waiting for that one in plastic for years!
Medalofdead
Joined: August 30, 2013
KitMaker: 15 posts
Armorama: 15 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 09:26 AM UTC
As far as I know, what Italeri has done to utilize its partnership is nothing more than some Re-boxing of the old kits like Ferdinand or Sherman. Hardly attractive thou. Cooperation with Dragon would be nice in accordance with black label's current strategy, but difficulties exist(Dragon the parent company is shiftless, and rumor has it that it has financial problems).
JPTRR
Managing Editor
#051
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
Armorama: 2,447 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 09:33 AM UTC
I wonder how the model will look?
I also wonder who thought an oscillating turret was a good idea?
I also wonder who thought an oscillating turret was a good idea?
Medalofdead
Joined: August 30, 2013
KitMaker: 15 posts
Armorama: 15 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 10:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I also wonder who thought an oscillating turret was a good idea?
Oscillating turret has its pro of mounting a much larger gun on a relatively small turret ring while keepin the whole system compact. Guns are prioritized over armor in early cold war era when shaped charge rendered RHA ineffective. Hence oscillating turrect was deemed feasible and researched by countries like France and US, but consequently only France brought the idea to a mass-produced fruit, the FL-10 turret on AMX-13 light tank family.
Medalofdead
Joined: August 30, 2013
KitMaker: 15 posts
Armorama: 15 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 - 10:13 PM UTC
Alright, it has been more than 9 months and now Dragon finally updated some details about T54E1. Looks like it will come very soon.
It seems that Dragon have done some research work. Many of the problems discussed here have been rectified. What's your opinion?
It seems that Dragon have done some research work. Many of the problems discussed here have been rectified. What's your opinion?
CowboyfromHell
Joined: September 18, 2014
KitMaker: 69 posts
Armorama: 68 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 - 09:24 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Dragon has announced another derivative of its "black-label" M48 patton, the T54E1 prototype.Est Arrival: February 2016.
Now is Nov 2016 and the kit hasn't still been released yet. I wonder if they're ever going to release it.
Pongo_Arm
Joined: January 27, 2017
KitMaker: 147 posts
Armorama: 147 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 - 03:00 AM UTC
They have released the kit, they never corrected the major problem of the missing step in the side turret armour. As Chieftan reported it was corrected long ago in WOT. Comes with the full diesel engine deck which is how I will be building it.
Pongo_Arm
Joined: January 27, 2017
KitMaker: 147 posts
Armorama: 147 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 - 03:24 AM UTC
Yes, the engineering on the whole turret is like a badly made toy. There is no bottom to the turret main part, so if the terrible rubber canvas is not used you will be able to see into the bottom of the turret.
And whole bottom of the turret is strange, they entirely missed the profile of the bottom even though Vostad got it right 2 years ago when he did the box art. And again the engineering of these turret pieces is pathetic. The cradle and the turret bottom plate only loosely fit together. None of the added on turret pieces really fit well at all.
And whole bottom of the turret is strange, they entirely missed the profile of the bottom even though Vostad got it right 2 years ago when he did the box art. And again the engineering of these turret pieces is pathetic. The cradle and the turret bottom plate only loosely fit together. None of the added on turret pieces really fit well at all.
Removed by original poster on 03/07/17 - 23:14:38 (GMT).
Medalofdead
Joined: August 30, 2013
KitMaker: 15 posts
Armorama: 15 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 - 04:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
It appears that Dragon sculptured the turret using Play-Doh® didn't they? As if my expectations are ridiculed. Definitely worst kit of the decade.Yes, the engineering on the whole turret is like a badly made toy. There is no bottom to the turret main part, so if the terrible rubber canvas is not used you will be able to see into the bottom of the turret.
And whole bottom of the turret is strange, they entirely missed the profile of the bottom even though Vostad got it right 2 years ago when he did the box art. And again the engineering of these turret pieces is pathetic. The cradle and the turret bottom plate only loosely fit together. None of the added on turret pieces really fit well at all.
The_Chieftain
Joined: October 01, 2011
KitMaker: 11 posts
Armorama: 11 posts
Posted: Friday, March 24, 2017 - 12:32 AM UTC
This video (Should be timestamped to about 26 minutes in) gives an example of the fun of modelling T54E1 correctly.
https://youtu.be/LAoJGgs97Jk?t=1597
https://youtu.be/LAoJGgs97Jk?t=1597
MikeyBugs95
Joined: May 27, 2013
KitMaker: 2,210 posts
Armorama: 1,712 posts
Posted: Friday, March 24, 2017 - 01:06 AM UTC
Hey, Chief, could you send some of the WOT devs over to Dragon? They seem to be better at modeling obscure tanks than the Dragon Black Label team.
On a side note, when is your book that you mentioned in the video going to be released?
On a side note, when is your book that you mentioned in the video going to be released?
Medalofdead
Joined: August 30, 2013
KitMaker: 15 posts
Armorama: 15 posts
Posted: Friday, March 24, 2017 - 01:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
This video (Should be timestamped to about 26 minutes in) gives an example of the fun of modelling T54E1 correctly.
https://youtu.be/LAoJGgs97Jk?t=1597
Much obliged to the info, Chieftain. So far I can tell the problem of this crap is not technology, but rather, the attitude. Dragon is already on its mature or probably decline stage, they simply don't want to pay any effort into R&D.
New entrants are much more assiduous in research. Takom just paid a visit to Ft. Benning, GA to measure the T29 & T34 heavy before releasing the kits.
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