Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
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M35 Prime Mover
long_tom
Joined: March 18, 2006
KitMaker: 2,362 posts
Armorama: 2,005 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 - 04:34 PM UTC
Shockingly enough, there is not even a Wikipedia article on this vehicle, and information on this vehicle is scanty. Any information on this vehicle anywhere? Maybe it's not intriguing like a regular tank or cannon, but it's no less important-after all, AFV Club has made a kit of it.
jon_a_its
Joined: April 29, 2004
KitMaker: 1,336 posts
Armorama: 1,137 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 - 05:24 PM UTC
Easy enought to find : T'Internet Search results...
Perhaps you should contribute to WiKi & write one?
Perhaps you should contribute to WiKi & write one?
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 - 06:17 PM UTC
There is not a lot of info on them since they were only used for a short period of time until the dedicated artillery tractors could be produced. In the case of the M35, it was the substitute for the M6 HST (heaviest at 38 tons), which was used to tow heavy artillery pieces, such as the 8-inch Gun M1 and 240 mm Howitzer M1.
Just because a model company makes a kit of it, doesn't make it an important vehicle. Look at all the paper panzers that are available as kits. Vehicles that had no importance at all, other than design drawings or the occasional prototype. Wastes of time if you ask me.
Quoted Text
...it's no less important-after all, AFV Club has made a kit of it.
Just because a model company makes a kit of it, doesn't make it an important vehicle. Look at all the paper panzers that are available as kits. Vehicles that had no importance at all, other than design drawings or the occasional prototype. Wastes of time if you ask me.
ericadeane
Joined: October 28, 2002
KitMaker: 4,021 posts
Armorama: 3,947 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 - 07:27 PM UTC
From what I understand, the M35 was built from converted M10A1s -- something AFV Club overlooked when they issued its M35 but only supplied the M10 chassis.
http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/afvclub/afv35s08.htm
http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/afvclub/afv35s08.htm
27-1025
Joined: September 16, 2004
KitMaker: 1,281 posts
Armorama: 1,222 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 - 08:56 PM UTC
Quoted Text
From what I understand, the M35 was built from converted M10A1s -- something AFV Club overlooked when they issued its M35 but only supplied the M10 chassis.
http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/afvclub/afv35s08.htm
Correct, the AFV Club hull is wrong. Honeycutt's book only devotes a paragraph to the M-35. Only 209 in total were built and accepted into service.
long_tom
Joined: March 18, 2006
KitMaker: 2,362 posts
Armorama: 2,005 posts
Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 - 04:12 AM UTC
Thanks for the heads up, folks. One project I will definitely not try then.
berwickj
Joined: April 16, 2007
KitMaker: 352 posts
Armorama: 342 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 10, 2016 - 01:35 PM UTC
I'm in the process of converting Academy's M36 to an M35, which is much easier as their M36 has an M10A1 hull with the correct rear deck and engine access doors etc. I've found about 7 or 8 pics on the net, and Roy Chow sent me 3 more. (I'll put them up when I get home) None of the pics show interior detail, so I'm speculating that there must have been some sort of air tank in the sponsons for the air brakes. And that there must have been air couplings and shut off cocks on the rear, as well as some sort of electrical plug. As there are no good close ups of the rear, would they be the same sort of couplings as on the M4 HST?
John
John
berwickj
Joined: April 16, 2007
KitMaker: 352 posts
Armorama: 342 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 11, 2016 - 01:30 AM UTC
Here are the pics I've been able to find: (First 3 courtesy of Roy)
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)
11)
12)
The last 4 are from Steve Zaloga's book "U.S. Armoured Funnies"
I believe pics 8 and 9 are the same vehicle.
Are there any more pics of M35s out there??
John
1)
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)
11)
12)
The last 4 are from Steve Zaloga's book "U.S. Armoured Funnies"
I believe pics 8 and 9 are the same vehicle.
Are there any more pics of M35s out there??
John
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 11, 2016 - 02:01 AM UTC
Here's one in British service (from Allied-Axis #14) :
H.P.
H.P.
berwickj
Joined: April 16, 2007
KitMaker: 352 posts
Armorama: 342 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 11, 2016 - 02:44 AM UTC
Great pic, Thanks Frenchy!
That's the first one I've seen with pioneer tools too.
John
That's the first one I've seen with pioneer tools too.
John
berwickj
Joined: April 16, 2007
KitMaker: 352 posts
Armorama: 342 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 - 03:32 AM UTC
Another one pulling a 240 mm howitzer near Manilla. This one has an MG ring on it.
The search goes on!
John
The search goes on!
John
berwickj
Joined: April 16, 2007
KitMaker: 352 posts
Armorama: 342 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 - 03:47 AM UTC
Maybe another one.
John
John
barkingdigger
Associate Editor
#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 - 02:54 PM UTC
I'm not sure about John's pic 7 (with "hard top", towing a bulldozer) - it is a converted M10 hull, but lacks the front towing gear - I wonder if this one was just a field-converted tractor and not an official M35?
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 - 04:18 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm not sure about John's pic 7 (with "hard top", towing a bulldozer) - it is a converted M10 hull, but lacks the front towing gear - I wonder if this one was just a field-converted tractor and not an official M35?
I'm not sure about #6 either. It looks like a stateside unit towing a 120mm AA gun. The front end isn't quite right for an M35 . . . Perhaps an M35 pilot under test?
KL
berwickj
Joined: April 16, 2007
KitMaker: 352 posts
Armorama: 342 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 - 05:47 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI'm not sure about John's pic 7 (with "hard top", towing a bulldozer) - it is a converted M10 hull, but lacks the front towing gear - I wonder if this one was just a field-converted tractor and not an official M35?
I'm not sure about #6 either. It looks like a stateside unit towing a 120mm AA gun. The front end isn't quite right for an M35 . . . Perhaps an M35 pilot under test?
KL
Good points, both.
John
Buckeyes57
Joined: September 14, 2010
KitMaker: 135 posts
Armorama: 130 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 - 06:19 PM UTC
These are great picks on an interesting subject but I want to know when someone is going to release a 8-inch Gun M1 and 240 mm Howitzer M1 (Not SP) in 1/35th?
barkingdigger
Associate Editor#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
KitMaker: 3,981 posts
Armorama: 3,403 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 - 06:23 PM UTC
Quoted Text
These are great picks on an interesting subject but I want to know when someone is going to release a 8-inch Gun M1 and 240 mm Howitzer M1 (Not SP) in 1/35th?
Just after I break down and scratch-build one, of course! (Been working on 3D CAD of it for ages, but need to see how much I can scratch and save expensive printing for the fiddly bits. Recent life-changes have eaten up my time and put this project on the back burner...)
berwickj
Joined: April 16, 2007
KitMaker: 352 posts
Armorama: 342 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 - 06:41 PM UTC
I was thinking about the front towing pintle, and remembered that the early M4 HSTs had no front towing pintles either. In Pic 7 the track block holder isn't in the standard position, and neither vehicles in pic 6 or 7 have the spare road wheel holders, so they could be early "pre-standard" vehicles.
One thing I was wondering about is on the front of pics 3, 8 and 12. Is that some sort of cable under a bit of sheet metal? Maybe some way to open the front towing pintle?
And is it attached to the regular towing cable here?
And I'd love a styrene kit of the M1, especially with the late tracked carriage!
John
One thing I was wondering about is on the front of pics 3, 8 and 12. Is that some sort of cable under a bit of sheet metal? Maybe some way to open the front towing pintle?
And is it attached to the regular towing cable here?
And I'd love a styrene kit of the M1, especially with the late tracked carriage!
John
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 - 07:20 PM UTC
Very very very interesting thread. I have been wanting to build one of these forever. This is the most intel I have seen in one place.
One thing stands out to me. The potable crane used to pick the tube off of the transport carriage and place it on the firing carriage. It would indeed be nice to have a kit of this,plus the 240mm gun one day.
J
One thing stands out to me. The potable crane used to pick the tube off of the transport carriage and place it on the firing carriage. It would indeed be nice to have a kit of this,plus the 240mm gun one day.
J
berwickj
Joined: April 16, 2007
KitMaker: 352 posts
Armorama: 342 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 - 08:27 PM UTC
What happens when you've scratched a lot of detail on a vehicle where there is scanty detail?? A wealth of info pops up proving that what you've done is incorrect!! Good thing it was the interior, and I hadn't closed it off yet.
More info after dinner!
John
More info after dinner!
John
tankmodeler
#417
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
Armorama: 2,539 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 - 09:12 PM UTC
Quoted Text
One thing I was wondering about is on the front of pics 3, 8 and 12. Is that some sort of cable under a bit of sheet metal? Maybe some way to open the front towing pintle?
I think these items are the air and electrical connections you were wondering about. Not something to remotely open the tow pintle. Not sure what use _that_ would serve.
Quoted Text
And is it attached to the regular towing cable here?
Don't think so, my poor eyes (and I could be wrong to be sure) see the tow rope ending prior to the beginning of the air hoses and electrical cable.
Paul
berwickj
Joined: April 16, 2007
KitMaker: 352 posts
Armorama: 342 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 - 09:46 PM UTC
Thanks Paul, I just found that out today too when my copy of Tankograd 6028 arrived. Although I didn't know it when I ordered my copy, it has 4 pages dedicated to the M35. It has 4 new pics (no interior shots of M35) and info regarding the air lines and couplings on the front pintle. The couplings came out of the glacis plate above the right lifting eye and were covered by some sheet metal.
The crew was increased to 6 and 4 seats were installed in the crew compartment. I had installed storage compartments in the sponsons, but had to remove these. I could have waited for the book, but... As Master Po would say, "Patience Grasshopper."
It seems there was an M35 at Aberdeen Proving Ground in '46, maybe it's still there.
John
The crew was increased to 6 and 4 seats were installed in the crew compartment. I had installed storage compartments in the sponsons, but had to remove these. I could have waited for the book, but... As Master Po would say, "Patience Grasshopper."
It seems there was an M35 at Aberdeen Proving Ground in '46, maybe it's still there.
John
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 14, 2016 - 11:44 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm not sure about #6 either. It looks like a stateside unit towing a 120mm AA gun. The front end isn't quite right for an M35 . . . Perhaps an M35 pilot under test?
This picture appears in S. Zaloga's "M10 and M36 Tank Destroyers 1942-53" (Osprey) : according to the caption, this one was used at the Air Defense School at Fort Bliss, Texas, in 1944.
Quoted Text
Although I didn't know it when I ordered my copy, it has 4 pages dedicated to the M35. It has 4 new pics (no interior shots of M35)
I guess it probably includes this one :
H.P.
berwickj
Joined: April 16, 2007
KitMaker: 352 posts
Armorama: 342 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2016 - 12:49 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I guess it probably includes this one :
Nope, that's a new one! Although they do explain in Tankograd 6036, which also came today, that pic nr. 7 is actually a damaged M36 used by the 24th Armoured Eng. Bat.
John
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 15, 2016 - 02:36 AM UTC
Some further info . . .
The M35 (along with the M33 and M34) was classified as Substitute Standard on 20 April 44. The total production was 209 vehicles, When they were declared Obsolete (16 August 45) the records show that only 24 had been issued to troops overseas and 12 had been provided as International Aid. The remainder (173 vehicles) were held in the US at depots or with training units. That would explain the paucity of service photographs. In fact, of the 342 expedient prime movers made, only 77 were issued to troops overseas along with the 12 M35s as Lend Lease.
KL
The M35 (along with the M33 and M34) was classified as Substitute Standard on 20 April 44. The total production was 209 vehicles, When they were declared Obsolete (16 August 45) the records show that only 24 had been issued to troops overseas and 12 had been provided as International Aid. The remainder (173 vehicles) were held in the US at depots or with training units. That would explain the paucity of service photographs. In fact, of the 342 expedient prime movers made, only 77 were issued to troops overseas along with the 12 M35s as Lend Lease.
KL
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