Anyone have some picks of a 222 or a 223 up on a jack for repair ?

Where do they stick it ?! The Jack ?
.. . and I hopefully can see how much travel is in the A-arm ..

Thanks !

.. and
Where can I find a drawing or pix on how this jack operates






Is that lower shelf , or hook , supposed to move upward ?
It ain't happening on this styrene example ...

sorry -Photobucket is having an aneurysm

Not exactly the same jack but maybe this helps ...




—mike

Thanks ,

My issue is the jack that is carried on the fender is essentially the same height as the tire ,, so you can't get the top section under anything on a 222 .
So it must be the cleat at the bottom -- but I don't understand how it would function .
It travels with the interior shaft somehow ?


EDIT -- oh OK ,

I see the cleat on that one now -- the whole body moves up the leg .
... Thanx !


... and the positioning of the top piece all makes more sense now .. Ha Ha . Thanks again


I still don't know where they lift it at the rear .
I assume they use the front bumper for that end ?

All those angles make it impossible to grab

Seriously ,
How do you use that jack back here ?

Grab what with that little cleat ?

It isn't a real 222, but a mock up.
Dan

Just guessing, but could the lifting-point be under the footstep in front of the rear wheel? I seem to recall jacking my old VWs from the side in that manner.


YouTube video. Panzerfabrik: SdKfz 222 Walkaround

—mike

Maybe ?
Up in the gap ?
You gotta be able to fit the jack and turn the crank .
I don't know if the fenders are near strong enough - it weighs 5 tons .

I assume the front bumper is where you grab it out front .

Maybe just below the rear cowling for the engine ...

... now I need to find the before ...

Maybe you remove the cowling and there looks like maybe a indentation , hard-point for jack cleat at the lower edge there ?

On the rear I think the best jack point would be the tow hooks. If you got the top of the jack in the hook, it might be secure.

The jack is the same height as the tire -- so it won't fit , especially with a flat .

The higher you try and grab with the lower cleat , the less travel you have to overcome the suspension A-arm travel .

I can't find any pics with flat tires

I guess Continental did such a bang-up job that they never had flats
They just drove around until they blew-up

It's actually a pretty interesting question!

Two somewhat conflicting answers pop into my head...

One is that there were likely "official" and approved jack-points - probably at the front and rear ends. And the crew were trained in using the supplied jack and in positioning it just so... "See page 23 of the Operator's Manual, Dummkopf!" (But I packed my references for my pending cross-country relocation, and cannot provide you any verification of this!

The other is the one which has applied to my entire of almost 5 decades behind various types of "wheels" (including cars, ATV, light and medium commercial stuff, and all sorts of military stuff including small and large tactical / off-road trucks)... And which probably has applied to about all of us when doing a flat somewhere on something... The exact circumstances of the vehicle will determine where you can place your jack. And, "where there's a will, there will be a way". I am absolutely sure that those guys did whatever they needed to.

I did take a moment to examine my 3 221 and 223 builds for possible points that "might make sense"... The front and rear ends offer multiple possibilities for getting one of those jack-dogs (the "step") pretty well-positioned. I could also see using the side-hatch openings for the top foot of the jack. One could also use the wheel-hub itself - put the jack-dog under the hub, raise the tire sufficiently, blocks under that suspension-arm, lower the jack, swap the wheel, put the jack back under that hub, lift off the blocks and lower it to the ground. That may well have been the official way...

Great question, and someone out there will come up with some other answers!

Cheers!

Heh heh -- yeah ,I'm not talking about doing what you have to .

I'm talking about what the guys that designed the thing had in mind . There is certainly a procedure .

Jacking it up and then blocking is all do-able ...
The thing with the jack is it's way too tall to insert anywhere so you have to use the lower cleat so you have dik for travel available to you in use ...
Seems like a scissor jack thrown up under the A-arm would be the shortest shot , including avoiding the suspension travel
Of course it depends on the terrain etc .
It just seems like the wrong jack for that thing .

IDK --- I'm putting one in a big dio that has 3 of it's tires shot out , so they're in the process of re-shoeing her ...
-- why I started thunking about it all .


BTW , Mike -- I like the first pix you put up , of the jack .
Looked like in someone's garage .
You could see the range of the components better .
What did you search to find pics of that type of jack ?

So, where does the third spare come from? And at that repair pace, the Russians will overrun and capture the Sd.Kfz.222 for themselves.

My thoughts regarding your pit-stop scenario … in my butchered German

Ein platter Reifen? ... Mach schnell!
Zwei flache Reifen? ... Bewegen sich sehr schnell!
Drei flache Reifen? ... Jabo eingehenden! ... Es ist Zeit, raus!

Now to answer your question … try searching “wwII german armored vehicle jacks” — that led me to this page and then to this page. In addition, here are some illustrations of different Jack Types.

Good luck!
—mike

Not on a jack but clearly undergoing repair with the hull supported:
http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y433/RobertLockie/F_4Rad_Spaehpanzer%20wheel%20removed_zps6ihugbye.jpg

Thanks , Robert -

Yeah -- I saw that pic . Many stuck bad in the muck , and many with no wheels ...

Mike - It's in an odd-ball , urban dio ---- they are being assisted by a repair crew with MB 1500 truck and other vehicle crews
( if you're interested --long way to go : http://www.scalemodeladdict.com/SMF/index.php/topic,13051.0.html )

... I was Google Image searching similar terms ... thanks for the links

On p. 208 of Osprey's "Panther" by Michael and Gladys Green, there is a large picture of a crewman jacking up the road wheel of a Panther using a similar jack. He has wedged the "claw" at the top of the jack against the wheel rim and is using the jack at an angle. You can't see the base, but I would suspect it is braced either against a large stone or baulk of timber. So it looks as though it doesn't have to be a straight lift. On the 222 I suspect the jack was wound down as far as it would go then braced between the ground and a main frame member then wound up. This is why the jack has a sort of spade on the bottom. Don't know if this is any help...

Keith;

Not to be flippant, but "official procedure" just like about any military plan, never survives contact with the enemy for long! I am absolutely sure that crew put the jack to use where and how they needed to - not as specified in any training manual. Just as all of us do with our car and truck jacks today. Yes, there ARE "official jack-points" on your car. I've actually used one from time to time!

What you can (and were ordered to) do when in training with your AC neatly parked on the hard-pan most likely fell by the way-side when in the field. Rigid following of exact official procedures probably lost valuable vehicles and equipment, and German crew were trained to be adaptive to ensure that their vehicles survived.

The jack was the standard item supplied on those armored cars. It definitely must have worked quite well, seeing as these things were everywhere a jack-needing German was likely to be!

When not on a hard road, the length of that jack would be almost a moot point! One would dig a hole sufficient to get it under a frame-member if that is what you needed or what would work. While I haven't found any picture yet of someone jacking up his 222 with that jack... there are plenty of fascinating pictures out there showing how crew of all nations actually did stuff! Consider a couple of G.I.s who have tipped their Jeep onto its side so as to easily access the transfer case...! There are pics of this. I am sure that no US GI training manual said that doing that was the correct, approved procedure!

I'm just suggesting that you get your tire-changers working to do their job with the gear on hand!

Cheers! Bob

Yeah , Bob .
I get it .
I've done stuff -- I'm not 12 .

I was looking for some specific photo's or manuals that indicate nominal jacking points . That's it .

Here you have all the manuals but is not free...

http://www.wh-versand.de/Artikel_Dv/2006649.html

Nazi ,but every army, have manuals and "the rigth way" to do everything also to Fart,after ok on the field everything change

i think this can be the Holy Grail....

http://s818.photobucket.com/user/mc65-1/media/Sdkfz%20222%20family/IMG_5378_zpsef992356.jpg.html

...i think the jack was made to be "universal" ,can be use in different position and 2 ways depend from the veicle and situation...on the 222 looks it work like the wv Beattle jack,not by the Head but whit the side of it....do you understand what I mean?

Ok is in Italian but you find a lots ho picture can help you and in Weatherig Gym you have plany of 221/222/223...

http://www.freeforumzone.com/d/10915215/Sd-Kfz-221-222-223/discussione.aspx

http://www.freeforumzone.com/a/809085/WEATHERING-GYM/cartella.aspx

Thanks , Vicious

Yeah - that's what I am referring to as the " cleat " at the side to lift with . ( the "L" )

Thanks for the links

,, I assume you just grab the back of the fender .
I was trying to see if it had any re-enforcement back there - but you get only a fleeting glimpse inside the back fender during that walk-around video .
The exhaust going thru there doesn't help .

give a check on here...

http://www.freeforumzone.com/d/10915215/Sd-Kfz-221-222-223/discussione.aspx

you have planty of picture,also of the naked main body etc...

You would want to position the jack (and set the jacking points) so that the tire can be raised clear with the least amount of jack extension. The front and rear are about the worst places for that as the vehicle is going to pivot around the far axle and the jack is farther from the pivot than the tire. If you jack from the side the pivot point is closer and the jack is about the same distance from the pivot as the tire, so the tire will lift farther with each unit of jack extension.

The photo of the jack at front looks like it is a operation to get the car back on the road and the side is no viable because of the drop.

Also, everybody likes to brag about they never followed the manual. That's an easy attitude to have when you weren't one of the guys that had lift an improperly jacked trailer off the body of the guy who didn't read the manual, or found one of the severed fingers from the machinist who thought he could rig and lift a 7 ton part as good as the people from the handling department.

KL