In the beginning. This is just mapping things out, but it gives you an idea of where I'm going with this.
Dioramas
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Cambrai 1917
TimW42
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Posted: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 - 10:42 PM UTC
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 - 11:59 PM UTC
Quoted Text
In the beginning. This is just mapping things out, but it gives you an idea of where I'm going with this.
YES! We need more WWI dios! NICE WORK!
BTW- Have you seen the WWI dio of Steve Willoughby's, depicting men of the US 29th Infantry Division? It's under "ICM American Doughboy Conversions"...
It's interesting that both of you have taken on WWI dios at the same time!
Barbarossa
United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 01:12 AM UTC
Looking good Tim....., as Dennis mentioned it's good to see some WW1 dio's being created. Looks like a large surface area you'll have to fill there on top, a lot of scope for some creative thinking...
I'm guessing you're having figures in opposing trenches? Are they both to be trenches? Having the tank coming out of one seems a little odd if so, or is it a sunken road or something? Otherwise the tank coming from behind a trench, or over the top of it......? I'm sure you've got it sussed....
Look forward to seeing it develop, good luck!
Simon.
I'm guessing you're having figures in opposing trenches? Are they both to be trenches? Having the tank coming out of one seems a little odd if so, or is it a sunken road or something? Otherwise the tank coming from behind a trench, or over the top of it......? I'm sure you've got it sussed....
Look forward to seeing it develop, good luck!
Simon.
krow113
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 02:12 AM UTC
A wire brush works very well to contour the pink styro.
TimW42
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 02:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Looking good Tim....., as Dennis mentioned it's good to see some WW1 dio's being created. Looks like a large surface area you'll have to fill there on top, a lot of scope for some creative thinking...
I'm guessing you're having figures in opposing trenches? Are they both to be trenches? Having the tank coming out of one seems a little odd if so, or is it a sunken road or something? Otherwise the tank coming from behind a trench, or over the top of it......? I'm sure you've got it sussed....
Look forward to seeing it develop, good luck!
Simon.
Good catch, Simon--yes, the British are going to be emerging from a sunken road/dry river bed. I thought it made more sense to have the tank moving up over the embankment, and then the infantry starting to follow. The Germans will be in the other trench section, maybe 3 or 4 guys wondering what they should do next.
Cheers,
Tim W
Kevlar06
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 02:33 AM UTC
Tim,
If you can get a copy of it, I recommend Osprey's "Cambrai 1917" as a starting point for some of the background to the battle. The Germans had a double trench line, and the Hindenburg line was well constructed-- they put a lot of work into the line prior to the attack-- they were aware of the British Mark IV capability, so they dug thier trenches deep and at least 12 feet across, which would make it almost impossible for the Mark IV to cross. General Hugh Elles personally led the attack waving a red, green and brown banner from one of the lead tanks (Hilda), which had an abbatis. Many of the 430+ Mark IV's had names painted on the forward part of the sponson, and aerial recognition markings as well on the rear and top of the drivers compartment. The attack took place in late November, and the morning of the the attack there was a heavy frost, so the ground was pretty firm, and the Mark IV's had been concealed in groves of Maple trees. About 1/3 (if I recall correctly) of the Mark IV's carried abbatis for crossing the trenches, and these would lead a section of three tanks, ploughing straight into the German trenches dropping thier abbatis, and crossing while the other two tanks provided enfilading fire on the trench. By noon on the first day the tanks had made great progress, 5-8 miles beyond the Hindenburg line, but they were not followed up by infantry, and many were captured later by the Germans. Your dio looks very promising. I've done a few WWI dioramas using the foam base technique-- I'd recommend a wood shaper tool to you-- it's a Palm sized handle with a small section of a steel cheese grater on one end of the handle-- it will cut the prep time of the foam in half. If you want to get more terrain height, you can glue sheets of foam together with a product called "Liquid Nails" which comes in a tube like caulk.
VR, Russ
If you can get a copy of it, I recommend Osprey's "Cambrai 1917" as a starting point for some of the background to the battle. The Germans had a double trench line, and the Hindenburg line was well constructed-- they put a lot of work into the line prior to the attack-- they were aware of the British Mark IV capability, so they dug thier trenches deep and at least 12 feet across, which would make it almost impossible for the Mark IV to cross. General Hugh Elles personally led the attack waving a red, green and brown banner from one of the lead tanks (Hilda), which had an abbatis. Many of the 430+ Mark IV's had names painted on the forward part of the sponson, and aerial recognition markings as well on the rear and top of the drivers compartment. The attack took place in late November, and the morning of the the attack there was a heavy frost, so the ground was pretty firm, and the Mark IV's had been concealed in groves of Maple trees. About 1/3 (if I recall correctly) of the Mark IV's carried abbatis for crossing the trenches, and these would lead a section of three tanks, ploughing straight into the German trenches dropping thier abbatis, and crossing while the other two tanks provided enfilading fire on the trench. By noon on the first day the tanks had made great progress, 5-8 miles beyond the Hindenburg line, but they were not followed up by infantry, and many were captured later by the Germans. Your dio looks very promising. I've done a few WWI dioramas using the foam base technique-- I'd recommend a wood shaper tool to you-- it's a Palm sized handle with a small section of a steel cheese grater on one end of the handle-- it will cut the prep time of the foam in half. If you want to get more terrain height, you can glue sheets of foam together with a product called "Liquid Nails" which comes in a tube like caulk.
VR, Russ
TimW42
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 04:06 PM UTC
You guys are reading my mind....the Osprey book is excellent.
Originally I wanted to do a tanks at the Somme dio, but all the markings in the Tamiya kit are for 1917 or later. I'll have to do some figure mods as well as I have them with the older style gasmask carriers.
"Hyacinth" apparently ditched near Ribecourt (famous photo of that on the cover of the Osprey). My thought was to show the tank attacking one of the supporting trench lines with infantry from the 6th Division (or maybe the 20th) in support.
I could go nuts with the research but will settle for plausible at this point!
More to come,
Tim W.
Originally I wanted to do a tanks at the Somme dio, but all the markings in the Tamiya kit are for 1917 or later. I'll have to do some figure mods as well as I have them with the older style gasmask carriers.
"Hyacinth" apparently ditched near Ribecourt (famous photo of that on the cover of the Osprey). My thought was to show the tank attacking one of the supporting trench lines with infantry from the 6th Division (or maybe the 20th) in support.
I could go nuts with the research but will settle for plausible at this point!
More to come,
Tim W.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 04:18 PM UTC
Quoted Text
You guys are reading my mind....the Osprey book is excellent.
Originally I wanted to do a tanks at the Somme dio, but all the markings in the Tamiya kit are for 1917 or later. I'll have to do some figure mods as well as I have them with the older style gasmask carriers.
"Hyacinth" apparently ditched near Ribecourt (famous photo of that on the cover of the Osprey). My thought was to show the tank attacking one of the supporting trench lines with infantry from the 6th Division (or maybe the 20th) in support.
I could go nuts with the research but will settle for plausible at this point!
More to come,
Tim W.
AGREE on the books! Somewhere in my library, I also have an OSPREY book dealing with the British WWI Mk.I-V(?) Tanks- It too, is a great reference.
I'm very glad to see that we can all benefit from the WWI-related kits and Figure sets that are finally making their appearance on the market of late!
TimW42
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2016 - 04:39 PM UTC
Some figure close ups. I'll have to modify them slightly. They have 29th Division formation signs and the earlier gas masks slung over one shoulder. They look that way as back when this project started, many months ago, I wasn't really sure were I was going. Wasn't even going to have a tank initially, but megalomania and my imagination have done the rest. Anybody know a good source for the infantry division signs? Specifically, the 6th and 20th (Light) Divisions? Having trouble with that. Figures are a mixture of ICM, MasterBox and Tamiya. They don't all scale perfectly, so I have to be careful who is standing next to whom (my, those ICM Guardsmen figures are big boys...)
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Friday, September 09, 2016 - 12:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Some figure close ups. I'll have to modify them slightly. They have 29th Division formation signs and the earlier gas masks slung over one shoulder. They look that way as back when this project started, many months ago, I wasn't really sure were I was going. Wasn't even going to have a tank initially, but megalomania and my imagination have done the rest. Anybody know a good source for the infantry division signs? Specifically, the 6th and 20th (Light) Divisions? Having trouble with that. Figures are a mixture of ICM, MasterBox and Tamiya. They don't all scale perfectly, so I have to be careful who is standing next to whom (my, those ICM Guardsmen figures are big boys...)
Re: Sources for Unit Patches-
Try PEDDINGHAUS or ARCHER; I've seen and ordered them on ebay from various vendors in the past. I THINK(?) TAMIYA also offers various 1/35 insignia decal sheets, now...
Personally, I recommend the ARCHER Dry-Transfer unit patches- no muss, no fuss, AND they're always in the proper colors and register...
PS- I LIKE your painting-style; VERY similar to mine!
Removed by original poster on 09/09/16 - 20:35:50 (GMT).
melende
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Posted: Friday, September 09, 2016 - 01:39 AM UTC
This looks great and I am very interested to see the process and completed dio. Can you advise exactly what kits for the figures you used. I know you said ICM, Tamiya etc. but which ones exactly. Figures look great. Please keep us posted on the progress.
TimW42
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Posted: Friday, September 09, 2016 - 02:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
This looks great and I am very interested to see the process and completed dio. Can you advise exactly what kits for the figures you used. I know you said ICM, Tamiya etc. but which ones exactly. Figures look great. Please keep us posted on the progress.
Thanks for the tips and encouragement, all! I've used Archer (they do WW2 and now WW1 AFAIK). The divisional signs changed quite a bit between the wars. As for the figures, the Tamiya ones are the guys that come with the tank kit (it's the only set of WWI infantry they do I believe).
ICM are the 1914 BEF guys, but they come (like the AEF) with all sorts of extra goodies on the sprues to do later war figures.
MB are the British infantry going over the top--I have a couple of sets of them and have been doing mix and match to get the poses I want.
I also have two figures I got from the Model Cellar, 2 infantrymen advancing to add to the group.
More to come...
Tim W.
strongarden
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Posted: Saturday, September 10, 2016 - 08:20 AM UTC
Tim
This looks real promising already, the figures are perfect! I like this, can't believe I missed it b4.
I've been slowly adding bits to the stash for a small WWI vignette w/ a trench, just no tank. Keep it coming, this is a great start.
Dave
This looks real promising already, the figures are perfect! I like this, can't believe I missed it b4.
I've been slowly adding bits to the stash for a small WWI vignette w/ a trench, just no tank. Keep it coming, this is a great start.
Dave
TimW42
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Posted: Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 04:31 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Tim
This looks real promising already, the figures are perfect! I like this, can't believe I missed it b4.
I've been slowly adding bits to the stash for a small WWI vignette w/ a trench, just no tank. Keep it coming, this is a great start.
Dave
After making some good progress this weekend (first time in awhile!) I've concluded that I won't use the Tamiya figures--they simply are too small compared to the ICM/MB figures.
I have a lot more of the ICM/MB stuff, including the ICM British infantry 1917-18. That set includes a bomber which is a nice addition, though all my figs are being modified.
Also doing up a Lewis gunner and his Number 2. More pix as things progress, though the next week or so is going to be busy with chores and other stuff, alas.
Stay tuned,
Tim W.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 05:44 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextTim
This looks real promising already, the figures are perfect! I like this, can't believe I missed it b4.
I've been slowly adding bits to the stash for a small WWI vignette w/ a trench, just no tank. Keep it coming, this is a great start.
Dave
After making some good progress this weekend (first time in awhile!) I've concluded that I won't use the Tamiya figures--they simply are too small compared to the ICM/MB figures.
I have a lot more of the ICM/MB stuff, including the ICM British infantry 1917-18. That set includes a bomber which is a nice addition, though all my figs are being modified.
Also doing up a Lewis gunner and his Number 2. More pix as things progress, though the next week or so is going to be busy with chores and other stuff, alas.
Stay tuned,
Tim W.
Hi, Tim!
I just went online to find out what the average height of "healthy" American & British males in the early 20th Century would have been; 5', 5" to 5', 8"... Let's not forget that nutrition back in that era CERTAINLY wasn't anything like what it has become today. If you look at old photos of that era, many people look as if they could have stood to gain a few inches in height, and a few more pounds, to boot! Also take into consideration that the "Rank-and-File" of the Infantry was mainly drafted from the poorer classes of people, and not from the spoiled, well-and-overfed RICH...
Big, well-fed Farm Boys were automatically shunted into the Artillery, where size and brawn counted most.
So maybe your TAMIYA figures wouldn't be so out of scale, after all...
I wouldn't "deep-six 'em" yet...
Interestingly enough, WWI Soldiers' Sons, had actually SHRUNK in height, largely through the hunger and privation that rocked the entire world during the Great Depression of 1929-1938. The WWII Soldier had shrunk in stature, but his shoe-size, on average, had lengthened and widened... Strange, huh?
TimW42
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Posted: Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 06:18 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextTim
This looks real promising already, the figures are perfect! I like this, can't believe I missed it b4.
I've been slowly adding bits to the stash for a small WWI vignette w/ a trench, just no tank. Keep it coming, this is a great start.
Dave
After making some good progress this weekend (first time in awhile!) I've concluded that I won't use the Tamiya figures--they simply are too small compared to the ICM/MB figures.
I have a lot more of the ICM/MB stuff, including the ICM British infantry 1917-18. That set includes a bomber which is a nice addition, though all my figs are being modified.
Also doing up a Lewis gunner and his Number 2. More pix as things progress, though the next week or so is going to be busy with chores and other stuff, alas.
Stay tuned,
Tim W.
Hi, Tim!
I just went online to find out what the average height of "healthy" American & British males in the early 20th Century would have been; 5', 5" to 5', 8"... Let's not forget that nutrition back in that era CERTAINLY wasn't anything like what it has become today. If you look at old photos of that era, many people look as if they could have stood to gain a few inches in height, and a few more pounds, to boot! Also take into consideration that the "Rank-and-File" of the Infantry was mainly drafted from the poorer classes of people, and not from the spoiled, well-and-overfed RICH...
Big, well-fed Farm Boys were automatically shunted into the Artillery, where size and brawn counted most.
So maybe your TAMIYA figures wouldn't be so out of scale, after all...
I wouldn't "deep-six 'em" yet...
Interestingly enough, WWI Soldiers' Sons, had actually SHRUNK in height, largely through the hunger and privation that rocked the entire world during the Great Depression of 1929-1938. The WWII Soldier had shrunk in stature, but his shoe-size, on average, had lengthened and widened... Strange, huh?
Excellent point. I will be considering the Tamiya figures when I'm ready for "final composition." I'll send some pix of that once I get the figures cobbled together the way I want them.
Things are really coming together.
Here are the specific figure sets. The 1914 sets come with a sprue that includes later war gear, so the figures are very usable with some equipment mods.
http://www.fieldsofglorymodels.co.uk/masterbox-135--british-infantry-before-the-attack-wwi-era-9090-p.asp
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/941219-icm-35684-british-infantry-1914
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/104044-icm-35301-infantry
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/308942-tamiya-35339-wwi-british-infantry-set
So, plenty to work with. The extra sprues in the ICM kits make buying more than one set of those guys worth it. Lots of goodies, including Ross Rifles (if doing CEF), mess tins, wire cutters, Lewis gun and ammo pouches, etc.
TW
jrutman
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Posted: Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 06:47 PM UTC
I am a bit late weighing in here but,concerning the figures' sizes,I would not worry about the different sizes that much as all people are not the same.
You can safely mix those figs as long as the equipment you use (helmets,rifles,etc) stays the same.
As an illustration I reference a favorite trick we NCOs use for parades and ceremonies when it requires a large block formation of maybe 8 across and 20 deep. We put all the tallest guys in front,flowing to the shortest guys in the rear. It creates the illusion that all are the same size. But there are many different folks in there.
J
You can safely mix those figs as long as the equipment you use (helmets,rifles,etc) stays the same.
As an illustration I reference a favorite trick we NCOs use for parades and ceremonies when it requires a large block formation of maybe 8 across and 20 deep. We put all the tallest guys in front,flowing to the shortest guys in the rear. It creates the illusion that all are the same size. But there are many different folks in there.
J
TimW42
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Posted: Sunday, September 11, 2016 - 06:57 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I am a bit late weighing in here but,concerning the figures' sizes,I would not worry about the different sizes that much as all people are not the same.
You can safely mix those figs as long as the equipment you use (helmets,rifles,etc) stays the same.
As an illustration I reference a favorite trick we NCOs use for parades and ceremonies when it requires a large block formation of maybe 8 across and 20 deep. We put all the tallest guys in front,flowing to the shortest guys in the rear. It creates the illusion that all are the same size. But there are many different folks in there.
J
Yep, figure placement will be something I have to think through--I probably won't but the Tamiya guys right next to the burly, strapping ICM 1914 guys...
Cheers,
Tim W.
TimW42
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Posted: Thursday, September 15, 2016 - 01:34 AM UTC
A bomb thrower. This is the ICM figure, but I gave him a helmet and added pistol/ammo pouch.
TimW42
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Posted: Thursday, September 15, 2016 - 04:13 AM UTC
Gaaaah!!!! I#*$&(@)@) Dullcote! Sprayed several figures...the dullcote TURNED WHITE. What the heck!!!!!!???
Touching up and face repainting in progress.
In the meantime, Lewis gunner and his No. 2 (in progress).
Touching up and face repainting in progress.
In the meantime, Lewis gunner and his No. 2 (in progress).
TAFFY3
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Posted: Thursday, September 15, 2016 - 08:21 AM UTC
Gaaaah!!!! I#*$&(@)@) Dullcote! Sprayed several figures...the dullcote TURNED WHITE. What the heck!!!!!!??? (Quoted)
Happened to me, temperature and especially humidity will do that. Had good results just respraying, white disappeared. Don't know if it will work every time, or if I was just lucky. Al
Happened to me, temperature and especially humidity will do that. Had good results just respraying, white disappeared. Don't know if it will work every time, or if I was just lucky. Al
TimW42
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Posted: Thursday, September 15, 2016 - 06:07 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Gaaaah!!!! I#*$&(@)@) Dullcote! Sprayed several figures...the dullcote TURNED WHITE. What the heck!!!!!!??? (Quoted)
Happened to me, temperature and especially humidity will do that. Had good results just respraying, white disappeared. Don't know if it will work every time, or if I was just lucky. Al
Good to know--I discovered that using thinner removed the worst of the "frosting" so I only had to repaint 1 face from scratch (actually was one I wasn't really happy with) and and the rest I could strip and touch up. Switching to acrylics (mostly) has paid dividends!
I was going to be out of town this weekend; plans fell through--that means more time in the man cave!
Tim W
jrutman
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Posted: Thursday, September 15, 2016 - 06:21 PM UTC
Nice to see you overcame the setback. I hate when that happens.
J
J
TimW42
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Posted: Friday, September 16, 2016 - 08:34 PM UTC
Lewis gunner.