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Small Churches In Europe
long_tom
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Posted: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 - 11:33 PM UTC
Europe is famous for its large cathedrals of course, but certainly there must have been small churches as well. Any examples?
ahandykindaguy
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Posted: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 - 11:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Europe is famous for its large cathedrals of course, but certainly there must have been small churches as well. Any examples?



Google exactly the following:

Small churches in Europe

In the images section are dozens of pictures...

HTH

Paulinsibculo
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Posted: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 - 11:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Europe is famous for its large cathedrals of course, but certainly there must have been small churches as well. Any examples?



Just google photos while using: 'kerk' (Dutch), 'eglise' (French) or 'kirche' (German).
You may find any size you need.

Good luck!
Bonaparte84
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Posted: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 - 11:57 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Europe is famous for its large cathedrals of course, but certainly there must have been small churches as well. Any examples?



Just google photos while using: 'kerk' (Dutch), 'eglise' (French) or 'kirche' (German).
You may find any size you need.

Good luck!



And if that's still too big or not good enough, you can try with chapel, chappelle, Kapelle etc. . Obviously, some "chapels" can be huge, like the sistine chapel...
48thscale
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 12:08 AM UTC
how about this one...that bridge in the background is the one that wasn't too far?

http://www.wondermondo.com/Countries/E/Netherlands/Gelderland/SintNicolaaskapel.htm

H.
EHAM0624
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 12:41 AM UTC
I learned something new this is apparently the smallest in the Netherlands,.. close to the German border, nice size for an 1/35 dio

RLlockie
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 12:43 AM UTC
Sure, there are loads but even the small ones tend to be relatively large, often the largest building in the village.
Removed by original poster on 01/18/17 - 19:44:29 (GMT).
Stoottroeper
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 12:52 AM UTC
How about googling "van gogh kerk Nuenen"?
Just a small protestant church in the Market Garden area.

Peter
66fastback
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 03:04 AM UTC
that is a pretty broad area to cover.
Any particular area in mind? Because there is a huge difference in style and size between western Europe and southern Europe. In southern Europe you will also find a lot of road side shrines and chapels while in the west those are rare.And then there is a difference inside of countries to. For example the in Italy the churches in the south and on the islands are Mediterranean style while in the north you find German/Tirol style buildings.

Eric
long_tom
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 08:54 AM UTC
I brought it up because it so happens that Nazi Germany as well as the Soviet Union id its part to suppress Christianity. Note that the Oberammergau passion play was forbidden in 1940. Also in Italy, Mussolini waged war against the Catholic Church, and it was he who made the Vatican its own nation.

Not unsurprisingly, as Germany was losing the Second World War, people were packing Christian churches-no doubt to show defiance against the Nazi regime who had done them wrong.
Vicious
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 09:35 AM UTC
In Europe you can find at least 1 church for every tiny little village and many times more sometimes also in the middle of nowhere big small and micro if search in Italy write chiesa cappella chiesetta or Via Crucis

Sorry long-tom but the Vatican is thousand years have is own country before was a lot bigger search for "stati vaticani" until the unity of Italy the Vatican have land all over the country and own all the holy city
long_tom
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 12:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text

In Europe you can find at least 1 church for every tiny little village and many times more sometimes also in the middle of nowhere big small and micro if search in Italy write chiesa cappella chiesetta or Via Crucis

Sorry long-tom but the Vatican is thousand years have is own country before was a lot bigger search for "stati vaticani" until the unity of Italy the Vatican have land all over the country and own all the holy city


You're half right. Before Italy was made into a single nation, there were the Papal States. But Mussolini was the one who made Vatican City a nation definitely separate from Italy afterward.
Vicious
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 12:47 PM UTC
Re-sorry but Mussolini simply sign the Patti lateranensi in the 29 to finally have a something official recognised by both papa and Italy but the Patti lateranensi was already sign by most of other European countries before the First World War
Bonaparte84
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 03:44 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I brought it up because it so happens that Nazi Germany as well as the Soviet Union id its part to suppress Christianity. Note that the Oberammergau passion play was forbidden in 1940.



Regarding Germany, this is far from accurate, especially the comparison with the Soviet Union. While undoubtedly an enemy of Christian faith and the churches, Hitler was well aware of the relevance of Christian faith to a vast portion/ majority of the German people, and postponed any drastic measures against the churches until after the war, by which time the churches would - according to his plan - served their purpose. Also, he hid this agenda from the public and refrained from any open conflict with the churches, as long as they played along.

This is reflected by several circumstances:
1. Many German Christians failed to understand that serving the Reich meant to betray their Church and Christian ideals... To many, this realisation came very late, too late...
2. Siginifcant parts, i.e. thelogical currents, of both churches (the protestant definitely more so than the catholic, and historically it was the more important confession) actively supported the Reich and later on its war against Germany's enemies, amongst which most notirously "bolchevism". They hoped for a "spiritual rebirth" of Germany that had suffered from the previous war/ Versailles Treaty. This is also where - for some parts - a shared antisemite view would chime in, antisemitism being a widespread theme throughout christianity at that time.
3. While both churches had their share of priests and followers arrested/ deported/ executed etc. for opposing the system, this never reached the organisational level of the churches as such. There were instances where the church would pubicly protest against the system on a specific issue, and there would be no reprisals at all (I'm referring to the protests against the state "euthanasia" program for the mentally disabled, a protest that even led to the cancellation of the program). HOwever, the overall approach of the churches was to avoid an open conflict they couldn't possibly win, and hope to get rhtough the war and along with the system in the future.

All of this is entirely different from the situation of the (banned) church in the Soviet Union.

Also, you couldn't be more wrong about the Oberammergau passion play. In 1934, it was declared "reichswichtig" (important for the Reich), because Hitler appreciated its antisemite hue. In 1940, it was not "forbidden", but merely cancelled due to the then ongoing war in the West/ North.


Quoted Text

Not unsurprisingly, as Germany was losing the Second World War, people were packing Christian churches-no doubt to show defiance against the Nazi regime who had done them wrong.



If you are referring to German Christians, this is, for the most part, incorrect. First of all, the war wasn't really perceived as lost by most until very late in the war. And, for the reasons mentioned above, going to church could hardly be seen as an act of "defiance" at the time. Also, the Nazi regime had not done German Christians in particular much wrong.

If you are referring to occupied territories, this could be a different story, but I haven't studied this yet.


I'll leave it at that for now, but there is obviously so much more to this topic. If you're interested in what Germans believed, thought and hoped for throughout the war, I recommend reading "The German War - A nation under arms" by Nicholas Stargardt.

Cheers!
trooper82
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 07:40 PM UTC
Try petit eglise etc for small churches whilst Googling images, makes a big difference
ivanhoe6
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 08:17 PM UTC
Tom, My favorite small church in Europe is Maria Gern in Bavaria. I like to "wander" from there on a scenic, well marked path to the Koenigsee and an electric boat ride to St. Bartolomae, a small monastery for a fresh trout dinner. Google it ! Very scenic and the tiny church is quite beautiful !
HTH
Tom
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 08:52 PM UTC
Tom, try Googling "Wallfahrtskapelle"
Bonaparte84
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Posted: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 - 09:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Tom, try Googling "Wallfahrtskapelle"



I agree, that's a good one!
Paulinsibculo
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 12:44 AM UTC
Dear Tom,

With all respect, but your knowledge about the attitude towards churches and religion in Europe immediately after the war is absolutely not according the reality.
Very briefly, in occupied Europe church communities remained in tact. (Not to mention the jewish communities since this is a very complex, other story) Depending on their interpertation of the bible they accepted the occupation as a God given fact and thus to be accepted (At least some very fundamental protestants in The Netherlands) or they organised on various scales resistance and/or the support of hiding jewish citizens. Church ceromonies were 'normally' organised as usuall.
They 'only' remarks which could be made is the fact that an openly spoken questioning or critisime of the occupation and the way the Germans acted did not happen.
Actually, after the war life went on without any actions against religious institutions.
People were just too busy to restart their own life again.

So, you touched a very complex theme which requires careful studying.
There is no such thing in Europe as uniformity!
And thus this discussion, to my humble opinion, should be left out of this blog for modeling to avoid ending up in an endless discussion.

66fastback
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Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2017 - 01:51 AM UTC
Amen

I answered at first in the assumption this was about a model or diorama. So I totally agree not the place or subject.
long_tom
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Posted: Thursday, April 13, 2017 - 11:19 PM UTC
Incidentally, I looked up the Osprey book on the German home front during WW2. Christianity was discouraged and church attendance did increase as Germany was losing the war; it said so in the book. So what I said was no lie after all. That's what I intend to depict BTW.
Paulinsibculo
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Posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 - 12:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Incidentally, I looked up the Osprey book on the German home front during WW2. Christianity was discouraged and church attendance did increase as Germany was losing the war; it said so in the book. So what I said was no lie after all. That's what I intend to depict BTW.



Dear Tom,
Wondering what this answer's function in a modeling forum is no other than a try to get your confirmation about a very delicate subject.
Please, do read books about this subject which do give you a much better and motivated explanation on this subject. The Osprey book is intended to show uniforms and organisations in Germany during WW2. The author never intended to give a motivated view on religion in Germany.
Believe me, Europeans do have a far better view on this since it is part of their history and daily life, so it might be wise to accept their answer in stead of refering about this subject to a book about uniforms!
Sorry, it may sound harsh, but no offence intended.
And do keep this discussion out of this forum since it does not contribute to modeling at all!
long_tom
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Posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 - 12:54 AM UTC
The book I mentioned was about uniforms, but also what life was like in Germany itself during World War Two. How society was, how different people were treated, how things in Germany changed as the war progressed, etc.

It would not be unlikely that people would attend church not because they discovered religion so much as a slap in the face to the cult of Adolf Hitler.

I should also add that the Bible describes how there were people who preached Christianity as a way of stirring up trouble rather than out of actual religious belief. Also, there is a story by H. H. Munro about a prince in an ancient barbarian kingdom who professes faith in Christianity, upsetting his father. The father dies and the prince inherits the throne, but the prince admits to an adviser that he really believed in the kingdom's snake gods and was only pretending to believe in Christianity to purposely upset his father. Of course he was forced to continue his pretense of being a Christian while still secretly still worshipping the snake gods.

Hope that clears everything up.
Vicious
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Posted: Friday, April 14, 2017 - 03:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text


...It would not be unlikely that people would attend church not because they discovered religion so much as a slap in the face to the cult of Adolf Hitler...



Excuse me with all due respect but do you really believe that a Dictator in power for just 11 years has succeeded in removing the Christian faith from a Christian people for at least 1000 years? ... not even Stalin remained in power for much longer he succeeded in this, you do not need priests and Churches to have faith and pray, is something that you can do at home or other places and then go back to the church when you feel more confident that you can do it in the sunlight or in any case having nothing to lose, thinking that they only did to annoy the Austrian Corporal as a child would make souds to me pretty ridiculous and disrespectful to these peoples ,also because the Nazi regime was not famous for its sense of humor...
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