Review
Takom: T29E3 U.S. Heavy Tank
Alabama, United States
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 09:48 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Are the HB ones really that bad Matt?
They aren't bad but they lack the outer part of the hole the track shoes fit into. The T29 is one of my top three favorite tanks, well, ever and I've climbed on them so much it'll bug the hell out of me not to have them. Everytime I look at the model, my eye will go right to them!
The more that I've looked at the kits the more that I think HB made their mistakes by closely following the plans in Hunnicutt's "Firepower". Additionally, I can see a few areas like the bow and the turret top with the forward periscope where it looks like they did deviate from the plans to follow photos and make the pieces more accurate. In all honesty, aside from the usual Trumpeter/HB simplification of welds and casting material, I think they did a very good job designing a kit using existing plans and then carefully using internet walkarounds to tweak the design for more accuracy. As an example, the one area of the T29 that is poorly documented is the turret top (and I am so kicking myself for blowing my memory cards photographing the top of the T29E3 version instead) which has several differences. And that's where HB made errors on the turret bulge and other minor areas. The thing that will kill the HB T29E3 when it comes out unless they fix it is that the louvres are really simplified and suffer badly because of it.
I'm still assessing through the HB kit but I think I would have been mostly happy with it (except for the louvres) had I not had Takom to compare it to. Takom obviously measured the real ones and it shows.
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,169 posts
Armorama: 1,067 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 10:20 PM UTC
Any chance you could post a photo of the HB shoe next to the Shapeways one? I'm still not sure what you're talking about there.
I understand what you mean about not being able to live with mistakes on one of your favorite tanks, I'm fighting with the object 279 which is one of mine, trying to make something acceptable using the Amusing Hobby and Takom kits.
Alabama, United States
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 11:39 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Any chance you could post a photo of the HB shoe next to the Shapeways one? I'm still not sure what you're talking about there.
I understand what you mean about not being able to live with mistakes on one of your favorite tanks, I'm fighting with the object 279 which is one of mine, trying to make something acceptable using the Amusing Hobby and Takom kits.
Sure can.
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,169 posts
Armorama: 1,067 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 12:00 AM UTC
Thanks Matt, I think I've got it now, the Shapeways holes are spaced properly, where the HB ones seem to be too close together, and they are non-existent on the Takom tracks.
Do you have a measurement on the Takom road wheels? Are they indeed larger than the 26 inch outside rubber wheel diameter that Kurt mentioned? If they are a hair too large, that will be fixable, if someone releases some aftermarket wheels, if they aren't, I'm afraid that I can't think of a way to fix that wheel spacing problem. (other than waiting for the Hobby Boss kit LOL!)
Sorry to keep bugging you, but I won't have them in my hands for awhile yet! - John
Alabama, United States
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 01:14 AM UTC
No worries! The roadwheels are fine, or at the least Hobby Boss and Tamiya screwed them up to the exact same dimensions.
Alabama, United States
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 01:17 AM UTC
And there may be a roadwheel spacing issue but I am very hesitant to say so until I've got the suspension built. The reason is again that the available plans are faulty in several details and comparing photos (as I am right here) is problematic because of the lens warping which is noticeable in the photo of the actual E3 below. And in my photo of the model!
Ukraine / Україна
Joined: January 26, 2010
KitMaker: 570 posts
Armorama: 553 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 01:33 AM UTC
Now I feel guilty for getting you guys into this road wheel dilemma. Hope it is fixable in one way or another. And again, how could they do it that way if they took measurements from the real tank?
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,169 posts
Armorama: 1,067 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 01:34 AM UTC
Yea, tough to tell until someone can measure the proper distance between the road wheels. You wouldn't happen to have that measurement would you Kurt? It sounds like some of the plans out there are suspect, does anyone live close to an actual example?
Alabama, United States
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 02:28 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Now I feel guilty for getting you guys into this road wheel dilemma. Hope it is fixable in one way or another. And again, how could they do it that way if they took measurements from the real tank?
I wouldn't be, personally I'd hate to miss anything that could be corrected when I build mine!
And I truly am kicking myself for not taking more photos of the T29 turret roof. If anyone is near Benning and can get permission to climb the bloody thing and take pictures it would be welcome.
Wojewodztwo Pomorskie, Poland
Joined: May 26, 2003
KitMaker: 1,208 posts
Armorama: 1,023 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 05:48 AM UTC
Quoted Text
No worries! The roadwheels are fine, or at the least Hobby Boss and Tamiya screwed them up to the exact same dimensions.
Matt,
It's hard to tell from your pictures how Tamiya wheels stack up against Takom's, but Hobbyboss ones do seem tad smaller, say by a 0,75mm? Have you perhaps measured them with calipers?
Other than that, the difference between HB and Takom suspension stations positioning... just wow
Cheers,
Greg
For those about to rock, we salute you!
Alabama, United States
Joined: January 26, 2006
KitMaker: 1,381 posts
Armorama: 1,347 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 07:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
No worries! The roadwheels are fine, or at the least Hobby Boss and Tamiya screwed them up to the exact same dimensions.
Matt,
It's hard to tell from your pictures how Tamiya wheels stack up against Takom's, but Hobbyboss ones do seem tad smaller, say by a 0,75mm? Have you perhaps measured them with calipers?
Other than that, the difference between HB and Takom suspension stations positioning... just wow
Cheers,
Greg
I got 18.61 mm for Hobby Boss and 18.72 mm for Takom. So, pretty close all things considered.
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,169 posts
Armorama: 1,067 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 07:38 AM UTC
That's too bad, they are a little small, Kurt mentioned that 26 inches is 18.87mm in 1/35 scale, at 18.72 the wheels are already undersize, so if the gap between the wheels IS actually too small, there is no practical way to fix it. I'll keep my fingers crossed, and hope it just the photo that makes them look too close.
Ukraine / Україна
Joined: January 26, 2010
KitMaker: 570 posts
Armorama: 553 posts
Posted: Monday, February 06, 2017 - 11:08 PM UTC
Hobby Boss T29E1:
http://panzer35.ru/forum/51-17518-1Does it look like the real tank? I mean, is it accurate?
Ukraine / Україна
Joined: January 26, 2010
KitMaker: 570 posts
Armorama: 553 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 01:42 AM UTC
If Takom, HB and Tamiya wheels are undersized, the only option left is to use Dragon Pershing kits, but their size is in question...
Even if they are OK, however, fitting them on incorrectly spaced swing arms would be a problem.
Minnesota, United States
Joined: February 07, 2017
KitMaker: 11 posts
Armorama: 11 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 11:20 AM UTC
And buyers remorse is settling in
I didn't know HB was offering a kit.
The wheel issue is really eating at me.
cutting the arms down and installing wheels from dragon T26E1 is not worth it.
For $40 I got a HB T26E4,Live suspension,two types of track and wheels made for bearings.I almost converted it to RC.
T29E3 for sale.
New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 12:46 PM UTC
Except a lot of this is still supposition. The spacing isn't convincing and the case for the spacing is weak. Anything based on eyeball as opposed to measurement is doubtful because perceptions vary so wildly.
And one photo comparing the spacing of the two hulls compared two different sides. Isn't wheel spacing on torsion bar US tanks staggered?
As for road wheels tires, I would like to go and measure road wheels from numerous vehicles because I have this feeling they might vary from the 26 inch standard due to wear and the wheels measured for the kits were worn examples. Conversely the tenth of a millimeter was within tolerance for the mold makers. If the latter is the case we're all up the creek.
Just being a contrarian for the sake of the discussion. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water just yet.
"The only thing a man should take seriously is the fact that nothing should be taken seriously."
Samuel Butler, Victorian satirist
Steve Willoughby
New York, United States
Joined: May 27, 2013
KitMaker: 2,210 posts
Armorama: 1,712 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 02:36 PM UTC
Quoted Text
.... I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water just yet.
I concur. Until we get hard numbers, and the Hobbyboss kit, to compare to, I'd say hold off on junking the only T29E3 kit currently on the market. It
may turn out that the HB kit is worse.
I do some 3D design work. Message me for more info on what I'm doing or have done. Inquire about a product catalog.
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 04:32 PM UTC
Quoted Text
As for road wheels tires, I would like to go and measure road wheels from numerous vehicles because I have this feeling they might vary from the 26 inch standard due to wear and the wheels measured for the kits were worn examples.
I've done that, for Shermans. No real change (*) on intact tires. Rubber track pads wore heavily, the tires hardly at all when running on rubber-backed tracks. I think I have tire wear limits for the 26-inch wheels; I will check tonight.
Quoted Text
I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water just yet.
Agreed. Wait until someone builds the effer and we see how the suspension can be assembled.
(*) The variation was within what I considered to be measurement error using a circumference tape or calipers on mounted tires. The manufacturing tolerance was only +/- 1/16 or a .0035 inch difference in scale between the largest and smallest - the thickness of a sheet of copier paper.
KL
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,169 posts
Armorama: 1,067 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 04:49 PM UTC
I agree with you guys, we should wait til the wheels are on, and we have the measurement of the spacing on the actual tank. The point I was originally trying to make with the wheels, was that if the kit wheels were a little bit too large, that would make the spacing between the wheels too small, and would be fixable. That to me, does not seem to be the case however. Hopefully when someone has the wheels on the actual kit, and we have an actual spacing measurement, the spacing will turn out to be acceptable. (Fingers crossed!)
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,169 posts
Armorama: 1,067 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 05:25 PM UTC
Just out of curiosity, if 26 inches is 18.87mm in 1/35 scale and the Takom wheels measure 18.72mm, what would .15mm be in inches in 1/1 scale? I don't think it would be very much even taking into account the variances, maybe 1/8 or 3/16 of an inch I think, but I'm just guessing. Of all the people in the world I should not be allowed to do math in my head LOL!
New Jersey, United States
Joined: March 15, 2002
KitMaker: 1,745 posts
Armorama: 1,483 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 06:01 PM UTC
I had both the Hobbyboss kit and the Takom T29 kits...the Takom kit is far better detail wise then the Hobbyboss kit...the HB kit front mantlet is off vs Takom kit and the real thing. The Turret on the HB kit seems to be out scale vs Takom T29 and T30/34 turrets.
Overall the Takom kit has better fine details then the Hobbyboss kit.
I sold my HB kit after comparing the two.
New Jersey, United States
Joined: March 15, 2002
KitMaker: 1,745 posts
Armorama: 1,483 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 06:23 PM UTC
Turrets:
(Takom Left and center, HB Right)
Front hull details
(HB Left Takom Right)
Attica, Greece / Ελλάδα
Joined: June 12, 2015
KitMaker: 921 posts
Armorama: 919 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 08:08 PM UTC
Thank you for the photos.
Looks like Hobby boss did not do their homework, but not a bad model after all, especially if someone is planning for a what if service version of the T-29
Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 24, 2004
KitMaker: 252 posts
Armorama: 154 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 08:09 PM UTC
Hi All,
First, here are some turret top photos of the T29E3 and T30 at Benning, along with some interior shots:
http://www.com-central.net/index.php?file=viewtopic&name=Forums&p=92811 I don't know where the "bulb" on top of the plate for the breech inclination area comes from that Takom found since none of these photos seem to show it, but they also don't fully capture that area. It also looks like the rear edge of these plates are far too severe in the triangle plate. The photos show this triangle to be more subdued, and not as equal as the Takom rendering (the HB inclination plate looks to be completely off as a blister rather than a flat plate). Also, neither top plate looks to be wide enough to allow for the breech to fully incline for cleaning the main gun (too severe an angle running from the mantlet opening to the rear). Also, and this is from the way the photos look, the rangefinder housing on the T29E3 doesn't actually have the sharp "line" running all the way across like the Takom seems to have. The photo of that area on the reference page shows the housing to be more of a smooth rounding of the housing all the way to the turret joining area, rather than the top rounding, then vertical plate of the Takom housing. Also, it looks like it's sitting too high as opposed to the actual one.
As for the road wheel spacing, here's an easy way to find out what it was. Count the number of track blocks from center to center of the road wheels, and that will give you the spacing since the T80E3 track has a known width.
Jon
Colorado, United States
Joined: December 04, 2014
KitMaker: 45 posts
Armorama: 43 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 09:00 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Just out of curiosity, if 26 inches is 18.87mm in 1/35 scale and the Takom wheels measure 18.72mm, what would .15mm be in inches in 1/1 scale? I don't think it would be very much even taking into account the variances, maybe 1/8 or 3/16 of an inch I think, but I'm just guessing. Of all the people in the world I should not be allowed to do math in my head LOL!
.15mm would be .21" blown up to 1/1 scale, so 3/16" for most purposes. Yuge difference!
