How long till a new Bergepanther?
varanusk
Managing EditorSanta Cruz de Tenerife, Spain / España
Joined: July 04, 2013
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 01:30 PM UTC
In my opinion, not much. It is probably the only (German WWII) big one that has not been updated in the last 30 years and it would be a big seller for any brand, so I would expect at least one and maybe two for this year. From who? While I have no information from any of them, there are several probable candidates.
This is what I think about the main contenders:
- Takom, with the recent Konigstiger with interior they have shown they can go for big challenges, and it would be the kind of model they like to launch.
- Thunder Model, they are newcomers but the Bergehetzer is almost ready, and their BT80 for the end of summer means they can go big as well. Would be a hit.
- Rye Field Model, another one who likes big and notorious projects...
- Meng, like Takom they could go for it as it would be a great addition to their catalogue
- ICM, already has a Bergepanther, would just need to add the interior and superstructure
- Miniart, with all their interior kits it would be within their scope, however they see to be focused on Soviet armour.
- Trumpeter, working on a 1/16 Panther they could downscale the chassis but I would not hold my breath...
- Dragon, if they have not done it before I see no reason they would do now.
- Bronco, Doubtful.
- AFV Club, Unlikely
- Italeri, who could upgrade the only one in the market, but I doubt they will
- Tamiya in a parallel universe...
Or perhaps everyone thinks the other ones are preparing theirs and we will never get it
What do you think?
England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 20, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 01:56 PM UTC
Hobby boss Bergepanther D with Flak released 2012.
Never in the field of scale modelling was so much owed by so many to so few.
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 02, 2008
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 02:08 PM UTC
G'day Carlos
I have asked the same question on numerous occasions, and once received a reply from a well known modeller who for reasons of privacy will remain nameless. Just take it from me that he is well known and should know what he's talking about.
That reply was to the effect that he was at a meeting of modelling manufacturers some years ago when that topic came up, and was advised that given the lack of success of the Italeri version (hardly surprising given that there's not much of it which is of any use), and the fact that Italeri own the rights to the Bergepanther for quite a few years yet, there is very little likelihood of any other companies investing in the necessary time and effort to produce a new kit.
However, the picture below, which is from Tony Greenland's book "Panzer Modelling" would seem to indicate that there is still hope - that master must be around somewhere.
Regards
Rob
#247
Nordjylland, Denmark
Joined: January 03, 2008
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 02:33 PM UTC
Yes, it's a big mystery to me too, why especially Dragon Models have not used their excellent Panther kits to do a Berge. It could turn in to at least three now kits, which really are sought for with a lot of modellers.
But I'm still naive and keep hoping for it
Jacob
"I never apologize - Sorry, that's just the way I am" Homer Simpson
#247
Nordjylland, Denmark
Joined: January 03, 2008
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 02:41 PM UTC
This is a converted Tamiya Panther G with the Verlinden set and some parts from the Italieri Berge kit.
"I never apologize - Sorry, that's just the way I am" Homer Simpson
New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 02:59 PM UTC
It'll come out right after Tamiya does an M74 Arv on it's Easy 8 kit and Asuka does a M31 based on their Lee kit. (And I know Asuka doesn't have a Lee kit.)
Dragon will do a Bergepanther after they do all the British Sherman Arv and the Sherman Barv and a T51 heavy Arv based on its M103 kit.
How many armored recovery vehicle kits are there in styrene ? Two Bergepanther, three "Bergetiger" two M32 and two M88. Even a simplistic T-34 conversion is only out as a resin kit. We're being silly. Arv are already a rarity in 1/35. Bergepanther? Right after that T51.
"The only thing a man should take seriously is the fact that nothing should be taken seriously."
Samuel Butler, Victorian satirist
Steve Willoughby
Hessen, Germany
Joined: July 17, 2013
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 03:11 PM UTC
Quoted Text
...and the fact that Italeri own the rights to the Bergepanther for quite a few years yet, there is very little likelihood of any other companies investing in the necessary time and effort to produce a new kit.
Sorry, but what kind of rights should this be? I don't mean to be a b****, but as an intellectual property lawyer, I don't see any IP rights eligible to be an obstacle for another company. Unless we're talking about copying the sprues from Italeri wihtout licence or using the exact same sprue layout, which I believe is not what you were referring to.
Of course, the major companies could have entered into market delimitation agreements, but in all likelihood that would be in violation of antitrust/ competition law and thus non-binding...
Just my 2 cents
Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: July 21, 2007
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 03:36 PM UTC
Quoted Text
[...]
How many armored recovery vehicle kits are there in styrene ? Two Bergepanther, three "Bergetiger" two M32 and two M88. Even a simplistic T-34 conversion is only out as a resin kit. We're being silly. Arv are already a rarity in 1/35. Bergepanther? Right after that T51.
Yeah, funniest thing is the appearance of THREE different "Bergetiger" kits, which in reality happened to be nothing more than a single field conversion vehicle
CMOT
Editor-in-Chief England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 04:27 PM UTC
It should be remembered that there are a lot of slightly different BergePanthers if the AJ Press books are to be believed.
#247
Nordjylland, Denmark
Joined: January 03, 2008
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 07:31 PM UTC
Sorry guys, but there's actually no such thing as a Bergetiger.
The vehicle you are referring is a demolition charge carrier 😉
Jacob
"I never apologize - Sorry, that's just the way I am" Homer Simpson
United States
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 10:47 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Sorry guys, but there's actually no such thing as a Bergetiger.
The vehicle you are referring is a demolition charge carrier 😉
Jacob
I think there is one based on the Porsche tiger or Ferdinand hull.
I think no one will release any decent new bergepanther unless the company is intent on doing a panther with full interior. If they were going to do the panther with interior anyway, then it makes sense to add a moderate amount of new molding to get a bergepanther. Otherwise it's a lot of new molding just to get a bergepanther.
European Union
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 11:31 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Sorry guys, but there's actually no such thing as a Bergetiger.
The vehicle you are referring is a demolition charge carrier 😉
Jacob
The allies found the so called "bergetiger" abonded in Italy. I don't don't know of any Grman documentation as to its use but it definatly wouldn't fit in modification-wise with other ARV conversion of panzers.
Never gonna' give EU up, never gonna' let EU down.
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 11:32 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Sorry guys, but there's actually no such thing as a Bergetiger.
The vehicle you are referring is a demolition charge carrier 😉
Jacob
Im soo sick of seeing nothing but WW2 german armor i really dont care if someone brings out a berpanther
#247
Nordjylland, Denmark
Joined: January 03, 2008
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 11:43 PM UTC
Nick: Plenty of non German stuff hitting the market every other day, so I really can't follow you in this.
And if you're not interested in the content of this thread, don't bother to follow it. Quite simple really.
Jacob
"I never apologize - Sorry, that's just the way I am" Homer Simpson
United States
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 11:44 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Sorry guys, but there's actually no such thing as a Bergetiger.
The vehicle you are referring is a demolition charge carrier 😉
Jacob
Im soo sick of seeing nothing but WW2 german armor i really dont care if someone brings out a berpanther
I already bought a resin conversion for bergepanther, so anyone bringing out a new one is too late for me.
New York, United States
Joined: July 13, 2010
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Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 01:32 AM UTC
Italeri is re-issuing their Bergepanther, is anything known if it has been updated at all, or is it just a straight re-issue?
England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: January 24, 2009
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Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 01:36 AM UTC
ICM do a bergepanther. Also reboxed by Revell.
Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 03:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Italeri is re-issuing their Bergepanther, is anything known if it has been updated at all, or is it just a straight re-issue?
It is a slight improvement on the original, but I think it's only by addition of some etched brass.
Regards
Rob
Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: October 22, 2008
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Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 04:10 AM UTC
Quoted Text
It'll come out right after Tamiya does an M74 Arv on it's Easy 8 kit and Asuka does a M31 based on their Lee kit. (And I know Asuka doesn't have a Lee kit.)
Actually I would prefer a M74 over a Bergekitty any time. The M74 was used by the early Bundeswehr after all so it's more useful for me.
Free men are their own masters. If you are not - you are a slave.
New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 06:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Sorry guys, but there's actually no such thing as a Bergetiger.
The vehicle you are referring is a demolition charge carrier 😉
Jacob
That's why I put it in quotation marks. The box tops call it a "Bergetiger " I know it's not really so the quotation marks say, in effect, that it's the
so-called Bergetiger. If one must truly get pedantic, some of us are capable enough wordsmiths to indicate the controversy without having to go through all the debate all over again.
In fact it makes the dearth of recovery vehicle models all the more pressing as a vehicle that is only a recovery vehicle by misnomer makes up nearly half of all recovery vehicle kits!!!
If everyone who makes a Tiger has to do this so called "Bergetiger " where are all the Bergepanther kits?
"The only thing a man should take seriously is the fact that nothing should be taken seriously."
Samuel Butler, Victorian satirist
Steve Willoughby
Colorado, United States
Joined: February 06, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 10:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
...and the fact that Italeri own the rights to the Bergepanther for quite a few years yet, there is very little likelihood of any other companies investing in the necessary time and effort to produce a new kit.
Sorry, but what kind of rights should this be? I don't mean to be a b****, but as an intellectual property lawyer, I don't see any IP rights eligible to be an obstacle for another company. Unless we're talking about copying the sprues from Italeri wihtout licence or using the exact same sprue layout, which I believe is not what you were referring to.
I was going to ask something similar. What "legal" rights would Italeri have to block others from making one? I am an attorney myself and curious as to what IP rights are deterring the other companies. I don't know why they concluded that it wouldn't make money when it is usually mentioned as the most wanted kit by hobbyists. Well, we can only be patient. Hopefully, we'll have one in 10 years.
By then, maybe we'll all have 3D printers at home.
Happy modeling!
Warning: possible addiction may occur.
Currently on the bench: Maquette T-34/76
New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
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Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 11:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
...and the fact that Italeri own the rights to the Bergepanther for quite a few years yet, there is very little likelihood of any other companies investing in the necessary time and effort to produce a new kit.
Sorry, but what kind of rights should this be? I don't mean to be a b****, but as an intellectual property lawyer, I don't see any IP rights eligible to be an obstacle for another company. Unless we're talking about copying the sprues from Italeri wihtout licence or using the exact same sprue layout, which I believe is not what you were referring to.
I was going to ask something similar. What "legal" rights would Italeri have to block others from making one? I am an attorney myself and curious as to what IP rights are deterring the other companies. I don't know why they concluded that it wouldn't make money when it is usually mentioned as the most wanted kit by hobbyists. Well, we can only be patient. Hopefully, we'll have one in 10 years. By then, maybe we'll all have 3D printers at home.
Legality does not matter to the Illuminati of all things miniature. They have decreed there shall be no kit and Italeri has the rights forever (even though ICM has a kit, but it shall not be named or considered in any discussion on Bergepanther models)
It other words, this whole Italeri rights thing is tongue-in-cheek. If a company wanted to do one they'd call it something that skirts the whole "rights" thing like "1/4 ton utility vehicle" for jeep(tm). But they don't because recovery vehicles
DO NOT SELL. How many M48 and M60 you see for every M88 built? How many Shermans for every M32?
"The only thing a man should take seriously is the fact that nothing should be taken seriously."
Samuel Butler, Victorian satirist
Steve Willoughby
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: November 02, 2008
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Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 11:42 AM UTC
Dragon and Trumpeter made a Bergepanzer IV
Dragon made a Tiger I (p) Bergetiger
CMK made a Bergepanzer III conversion
Thunder makes two Bergehetzers
Several companies do Bergehetzer conversions
ICM does a Bergepanther, also rebixed by Revell
Italeri make the Bergepanther and ill-named "Bergetiger" (well there are towbars on it!!!;) )
Hobby Boss I think made a flak-Bergepanther
...but a new tool Bergepanther would be most welcome
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: November 02, 2008
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Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 11:45 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Sorry guys, but there's actually no such thing as a Bergetiger.
The vehicle you are referring is a demolition charge carrier 😉
Jacob
Im soo sick of seeing nothing but WW2 german armor i really dont care if someone brings out a berpanther
Can I ask the obvious: why go out of your way to comnent on Axis threads if you hate panzers? Should we go to the next Sherman or T34 thread and complain we need a new Hetzer or Tiger?
Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
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Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 01:03 PM UTC
I have the feeling before a new Bergepanther on the market we will see at least 4 or 5 BergeE-100, BergeE-75, BergeMaus,BergeRatte...
