Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
Dunkirk
obg153
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Posted: Friday, July 21, 2017 - 11:51 PM UTC
There are a number of well known war flicks that are far worse than Fury. For me, if the movie is supposed to depict a certain event/battle, then it should try to be accurate and not just give lip service to history. Take "Midway" for example,, there are scenes of air combat where the plane that was just shot down is not the one we see floating in the ocean,, or even scenes showing aircraft that were not in service at the time of the actual battle. That's just p***-poor, lazy film-making. I understand that they can't field or fly the originals anymore and accept the use of substitutions (such as Tiger mock-ups on T-34 hulls). But to call your movie Battle of the Bulge and present a small group of GI's defending a fuel dump as the deciding factor in defeating the German offensive is ludicrous.
clovis899
#155
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 01:22 AM UTC
Michael,
Mole apparently comes from Latin and is a large mass, usually of stone. I can see the etymology of the word in the same root for molecule or even that weird thing that grows on your back that the MD casts a dim view of! When I looked it up it noted the difference between a mole and a pier is whether or not water flows through at any point. I am guessing that it may be one of those words that eventually disappears as I don't see a difference between a mole and a causeway or breakwater, words which which seems clearer to those non-Latin speakers among us, like me.

Cheers,
Rick
easyco69
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 01:59 AM UTC
Dunkirk is about the little boats ........
Headhunter506
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 02:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Michael,
Mole apparently comes from Latin and is a large mass, usually of stone. I can see the etymology of the word in the same root for molecule or even that weird thing that grows on your back that the MD casts a dim view of! When I looked it up it noted the difference between a mole and a pier is whether or not water flows through at any point. I am guessing that it may be one of those words that eventually disappears as I don't see a difference between a mole and a causeway or breakwater, words which which seems clearer to those non-Latin speakers among us, like me.

Cheers,
Rick



Silices gremiumque sursum in vestri Latine. Quod modo, te intellegere de subtilis differentias inter verba.
JohnTapsell
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 02:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I had to go to five dictionaries; three English, one French and one Spanish.

"Mole: a strong wall built from the land into the sea to protect against waves."



I suppose it's all about familiarity. Having spent most of my childhood close to a major port (an important WWII US submarine base) with both a 'North Mole' and a 'South Mole' it didn't need any explanation.

Kudos to anyone who can guess the port from the information above

Regards,
John
Vicious
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 02:55 AM UTC
il italian is pretty much the same "Molo",here in frnot of my home we have 2 islands "North Mole" and "South Mole"

Anyway I'm going to wait for the DVD I'm gonna look at during a modeling session
Headhunter506
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 02:58 AM UTC
Freemantle?
Headhunter506
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 03:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

il italian is pretty much the same "Molo",here in frnot of my home we have 2 islands "North Mole" and "South Mole"

Anyway I'm going to wait for the DVD I'm gonna look at during a modeling session



If you lived in NYC, you could have bought a DVD before the movie was released at a bodega or from a street corner hustler for five bucks.
Vicious
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 03:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

If you lived in NYC, you could have bought a DVD before the movie was released at a bodega or from a street corner hustler for five bucks.



Why pay $ 5 if you just look for google "dunkirk movie free streaming" and you have it for free, but i prefere the original DVD for my collection

Headhunter506
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 03:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

If you lived in NYC, you could have bought a DVD before the movie was released at a bodega or from a street corner hustler for five bucks.



Why pay $ 5 if you just look for google "dunkirk movie free streaming" and you have it for free, but i prefere the original DVD for my collection




So the internet police don't track your IP address and charge you with piracy. Arghh! Prepare to be boarded, matey!
Vicious
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 03:49 AM UTC
Mate I dont think it's the place to explain how you can make not trackable your IP address ,anyway there are many ways you would even be able to tie your IP to a Swiss address where download is allowed untill you do not share, but as I said I prefer to buy the originals DVD
Headhunter506
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 04:01 AM UTC
I'm familiar with the how-to's of that. I was just stating the possible consequences of the film mafia not getting its piece of the action.
Steven000
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 05:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I found it half good and half disappointing. The sea action, and air to ground action were good, and the sound was good too.

Don't read further if you haven't seen it...

But air-to-air was crap. This movie jumps the shark when one lone Spitfire, out of fuel and only a couple hundred feet above the ground, without feathering it's prop, reverses course and shoots down a Stuka as it's coming out of it's dive.
This was after the same Spitfire downed four 109's and two Heinkel 111's. Granted, the 109 pilots made it easy. No schwarm, rotte, or any form of unit tactics. Only putting themselves in front of his Spitfire and banking back and forth until he shot them down.



I saw it today and I totally agree.
It's different then other war movies, still nice but not the best in my opinion.

(- spoiler alert -)
Great to see many spitfire shots in the film, gliding such a heavy plane is possible but on that altitude not for long, you could argue that he needs to slow down for landing, but still you do need a high speed to land a spitfire...

I recommend to go watch it and see for yourself
Kind regards
clovis899
#155
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 05:46 AM UTC
Joseph,

Ego sum opus in spanglish!
165thspc
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 05:50 AM UTC
I admit being an "inlander" I might know a breakwater but would know nothing of "a mole".
Headhunter506
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 06:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Joseph,

Ego sum opus in spanglish!



Kevlar06
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 06:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I admit being an "inlander" I might know a breakwater but would know nothing of "a mole".



A "Mole" usually projects into the water, and may have access to the sea on either side by means of a road, walkway or section of dock or pier, and it may double as a breakwater on one side; A "Casueway" generally connects two sections of land to each other, with some form of trestling or pier, but is not considered a bridge; A "Breakwater" is constructed of rip-rap, stone, concrete, or sunken vessels and is designed to shelter an anchorage or protect the shore from erosion, and may or may not have access along the top. A "Mole" may also have the ability to support very heavy equipment or machinery, whereas a causeway, breakwater, Pier or dock may not. A mole is generally longer than a pier would be, in order to reach far enough into the water to support large ships at low tide. Hope that clears things up-- I've lived near the sea for most of my life.
VR, Russ
Sergas
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 07:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Quoted Text


...Fury! (worst War movie ever made).




Have you not seen Pearl Harbor or Red Tails?



Fury is the worst one in my eyes. That does not mean there are no other bad war movies. Saving Private Ryan (only the landing is great, the rest is just your typical Hollywood crap). Battle of the Bulge or Band of brothers (I know I know not a Movie.. but still). Red Tails isn't bad nor is it great. And I would not call Pearl Harbour a War Movie, its a damn love story!

cheers
David
justsendit
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 08:21 AM UTC
I liked it, and my Brother will dislike it. ... That, I can guarantee you! Lol! 😜
... And suddenly, I want to learn everything I can about Spitfires!
tybugg
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California, United States
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 08:54 AM UTC
Just saw Dunkirk this evening. Saw it in IMAX. The sound of the film is what struck me the most. A tense movie from start to finish, with no cheesy Hollywood stuff. The scenes of the movie are interwoven, as is the timeline, so you will see the spitfire shoot down the same plane more than once. Highly recommended
jrutman
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 07:21 PM UTC
I see from reading the comments back an forth that we have the usual conundrum when modelers are talking about war movies. Few can tell the difference between a "movie" and a "documentary".
Producers have a job and that is to make something people will go see. Directors turn that vision into reality. Some have the drive to try for as much accuracy in material and content that is monetarily and physically possible,others,not so much,like my favorite example "Battle of the Bulge".
But the key to a movie is a compelling story. Sometimes that means changing things a bit. If you don't like that you are free to watch all the wildly successful,huge box office documentaries that have been made. Oh wait....
Headhunter506
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 09:54 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I see from reading the comments back an forth that we have the usual conundrum when modelers are talking about war movies. Few can tell the difference between a "movie" and a "documentary".
Producers have a job and that is to make something people will go see. Directors turn that vision into reality. Some have the drive to try for as much accuracy in material and content that is monetarily and physically possible,others,not so much,like my favorite example "Battle of the Bulge".
But the key to a movie is a compelling story. Sometimes that means changing things a bit. If you don't like that you are free to watch all the wildly successful,huge box office documentaries that have been made. Oh wait....



You got that right, brother. Unlike a gaggle of other films of this genre which make liberal use of gratuitous, irrelevant side plots woven into the main storyline, this film focuses on the pertinent events. Take "Dunkirk" for what it is, a well made war film. BTW, so as not to use CGI, most of the troops and vehicles were cardboard cut-out props.

My all-time favorite no nonsense war films are "Battleground", "The Steel Helmet" and "Attack!".
jrutman
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Posted: Saturday, July 22, 2017 - 10:03 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I see from reading the comments back an forth that we have the usual conundrum when modelers are talking about war movies. Few can tell the difference between a "movie" and a "documentary".
Producers have a job and that is to make something people will go see. Directors turn that vision into reality. Some have the drive to try for as much accuracy in material and content that is monetarily and physically possible,others,not so much,like my favorite example "Battle of the Bulge".
But the key to a movie is a compelling story. Sometimes that means changing things a bit. If you don't like that you are free to watch all the wildly successful,huge box office documentaries that have been made. Oh wait....



You got that right, brother. Unlike a gaggle of other films of this genre which make liberal use of gratuitous, irrelevant side plots woven into the main storyline, this film focuses on the pertinent events. Take "Dunkirk" for what it is, a well made war film. BTW, so as not to use CGI, most of the troops and vehicles were cardboard cut-out props.

My all-time favorite no nonsense war films are "Battleground", "The Steel Helmet" and "Attack!".



Ah yes,"Battleground" was one of my top 5 ! "Ya hadda good home'n ya leff."
J
Kevlar06
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Posted: Sunday, July 23, 2017 - 02:53 AM UTC
"War" movies are just that-- movies. They can never hope to capture the reality of combat, and to a certain extent, they all use a metaphoric "cardboard cutout" to try to cram some reality into a two hour movie. Some, like Fury, sacrifice thier story line to gore and implausibility while trying to maintain authenticity. I haven't been to see Dunkirk, but I gather it's cast in the mold of telling a historic story from several perspectives, similar to The Longest Day or the Battle of Britain. Future generations may actually get something from that. I view "Fury" more like a remake of "Sahara", in that victory lies with a single tank crew-- a romantic notion if there ever was, without any of the romance. I'm not sure future generations will benefit from a movie like "Fury" much. If I had to select a "war" movie that truly represents the reality of combat and war, it would be "They Were Soldiers Once And Young". It's got the frankness of "Battle Ground" mixed with the reality of war from several perspectives, and because it's a true human war story, is the most realistic of any war movie I've seen. This is probably why Hollywood was indifferent to it. If I had the choice of seeing "Fury" or "Kelly's Heroes", I'd go see Kelly's Heroes, both are equally unrealistic, but I can laugh at the incongruities of one and just wonder at the incongruities of the other. I'll probably go see Dunkirk, even though I know how the story ends, but I'd like to see how this director depicts the heroism and determination of an entire nation at perhaps their darkest hour-- certainly a story worth telling. As I look out upon the fishing boats and pleasure craft of the small harbor town in which I live, I wonder what it would take for the owners of those craft to cross 26 miles of water and face shellfire and bombs to rescue thier countrymen-- there's the real story.
VR, Russ
MrCompletely
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Posted: Sunday, July 23, 2017 - 05:20 AM UTC
I'm waiting till I have more reviews from people whose opinions I trust; both for movies in general and for accurate war movies. So far I've only heard "good" from movie reviewers and "mixed" from military buffs.