Tanks with alternative turrets and guns
California, United States
Joined: December 24, 2002
KitMaker: 4,105 posts
Armorama: 2,492 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 03:54 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Not sure why the project didn’t get fielded. Could be cost? Or loss of some utility? Turret mounted directly atop vehicle which meant loss of use of cargo hatches. Would of made a huge improvement over the UGWS though.
Indeed, that is a enormous improvement over the UGWS and the 30mm recon JLTV. IMO, the USMC needs more heavy caliber firepower.
I wonder if it was never built because everything is exposed to the salt air and spray, meaning it might rust easily.
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,169 posts
Armorama: 1,067 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 04:16 AM UTC
Is this real?
Heavy Tank Mark I Chariot (A25): Heavy Cromwell project with 114-20mm armour, 17pdr gun, new suspension and generally bigger. Designed 1942 by Leyland and English Electric. Built in small numbers during 1944, by NEE, 50 built. Armour is 114-20mm; dimensions 22ft 8ins long, 11ft 1.5ins wide, 8ft 6ins high; battle weight 100,800lbs; maximum speed 24mph and 12mph cross-country and a road radius 130 miles. Fording depth is 3ft; vertical obstacle 3ft and trench crossing 7ft 6ins.
found it searching for the Vauxhall Cromwell.
Texas, United States
Joined: March 05, 2003
KitMaker: 2,092 posts
Armorama: 1,607 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 04:33 AM UTC
Marksman AA turret on Leopard 2
Removed by original poster on 08/22/17 - 23:43:03 (GMT).
United Kingdom
Joined: August 31, 2010
KitMaker: 365 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 05:22 AM UTC
That "A25 Chariot" looks and sounds very much like an early form of Comet, with the exception of the gun. Comet adopted the HV 75mm, more commonly known as the 77mm. This was a shortened 17pdr barrel with a reduced-volume chamber using ammunition mating the 17pdr projectile to the obsolete 3" 20cwt cartridge. Much-reduced recoil but not much reduction in target effect at typical combat ranges.
While I haven't come across the "A25" before, it wouldn't surprise me to discover that a few were built with the 17 pdr either before the impracticality of mounting the 17pdr was discovered or as a rush job to get some into service before the HV75 was ready. I have heard of the "Heavy Cromwell" project, but always understood that this ended up as the Comet. Having said this, an experimental/prototype/pilot stepping stone would not be beyond reason and there must have been Comet pilot models.
New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 06:06 AM UTC
The A25 was the Harry Hopkins light tank. The Chariot is fiction off a gaming site.
The tank pictured is the prototype of the Comet which didn't have the return rollers. Don't trust to Google searches unless it's a reputable site like the Tank Museum. Always trust your copy of Chamberlain and Ellis British and American Tanks of World War II.
The other tank they show is the A38 Valiant which only ever had a 75mm gun.
NOT to be confused with the postwar Charioteer tank destroyer built on Cromwell chassis with a 20 pounder gun.
"The only thing a man should take seriously is the fact that nothing should be taken seriously."
Samuel Butler, Victorian satirist
Steve Willoughby
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,169 posts
Armorama: 1,067 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 03:20 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The A25 was the Harry Hopkins light tank. The Chariot is fiction off a gaming site.
The tank pictured is the prototype of the Comet which didn't have the return rollers. Don't trust to Google searches unless it's a reputable site like the Tank Museum. Always trust your copy of Chamberlain and Ellis British and American Tanks of World War II.
The other tank they show is the A38 Valiant which only ever had a 75mm gun.
NOT to be confused with the postwar Charioteer tank destroyer built on Cromwell chassis with a 20 pounder gun.
Thanks Guys, I questioned the accuracy of the caption because I only found reference to it on one site, That's why I asked here.
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,169 posts
Armorama: 1,067 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 03:28 PM UTC
Here is a Sherman M51 prototype That was pointed out by Peter Smith on Israels thread that I think fits in nicely here also:
Thanks for letting me post it here Israel.
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 04:43 PM UTC
French Leclerc fitted with a 140 mm gun :
It was a just a technology demonstration...
AFAIK, the one below is a a fake but it looks cool nevertheless
H.P.
"Find the Bastards, then Pile On"
Col. George W.Patton III 's standing order for the troopers of the 11th Armoured Cavalry Regiment
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: November 19, 2008
KitMaker: 2,249 posts
Armorama: 2,007 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 04:52 PM UTC
Not sure if this link is allowed by flickr, but said to be a Saladin turret on a YW309, but I think that is incorrect, instead it is probably a Type 63 APC, it seems the Sri Lankan army operates Type 63s, and this vehicle is an LTTE lash up using a captured example.
Hessen, Germany
Joined: September 15, 2015
KitMaker: 64 posts
Armorama: 62 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 04:53 PM UTC
Hmmm,it seems the Leclerc with the modified Gepard Turret was a single prototype for testing,but the concept was never produced.
Well,believe it as far as you can trust wikipedia.But it seems logical to me that something like that was built.
Here is a swiss Panzer 68 with the Gepard Turret:
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 05:04 PM UTC
From Syria :
H.P.
"Find the Bastards, then Pile On"
Col. George W.Patton III 's standing order for the troopers of the 11th Armoured Cavalry Regiment
Florida, United States
Joined: October 21, 2013
KitMaker: 751 posts
Armorama: 751 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 05:41 PM UTC
It is a Type 63 not a YW-309 like claimed.Also this was a field modification by the LTTE(The Tamil Tigers) that was captured by Sri Lankan forces.I belive they destroyed it after these photos were took.
Florida, United States
Joined: November 23, 2012
KitMaker: 1,277 posts
Armorama: 1,254 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 06:22 PM UTC
Click on photos to enlarge...
Lebanese T55-122mm SPG in 2015
Lebanese Army Lorraine 37L Chenillette SPG armed with a 75mm gun M1916
Yemen AML 90 with BTR 60 turret in 2015
Peru AMX 13 122mm SPG
Russian-made D-30 122mm howitzer mounted on AMX-13 light tank tracked chassis. It's not the first time, that the Russian D-30 122 mm howitzer is used to create a new mobile tracked or wheeled self-propelled howitzer. The solution of Disenos Casanave is to use the chassis of the light tank AMX-13 as a self-propelled howitzer which is normally fitted with a turret armed with a 105 mm cannon. The idea is to replace the original turret by a D-30 122mm howitzer mounted in the centre of the hull. The AMX D-30 self-propelled howitzer is essentially a modified AMX-13 light tank chassis with the hull modified to accept a 122 mm D-30 howitzer and its recoil, elevating and traversing mechanism.
IPMS number 506
AMPS number 711
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: November 19, 2008
KitMaker: 2,249 posts
Armorama: 2,007 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 - 06:35 PM UTC
Had to come up eventually:
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,169 posts
Armorama: 1,067 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 - 04:27 AM UTC
A Renault R35 with a t-26 turret:
and a Leo 2 with a 140mm gun:
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,169 posts
Armorama: 1,067 posts
Posted: Friday, August 25, 2017 - 04:11 AM UTC
Ok, these are not really my thing, but they are a part of the thread , so I'll play. At least it's a tank turret, so it lets me off the hook:
and I wish Trumpeter or Tamiya would come out with this, or an aftermarket conversion at least.
Jordanian Challenger Falcon turret:
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,169 posts
Armorama: 1,067 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - 03:32 PM UTC
Here is a Matilda with the mantlet and gun from a KV tank. Should be a fairly simple conversion for the new Tamiya Russian Matilda:
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - 03:53 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Always trust your copy of Chamberlain and Ellis British and American Tanks of World War II.
I'd say "
Put more faith in your copy of Chamberlain and Ellis British and American Tanks of World War II." Remember that C&E's research is around 50 years old.
KL
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - 04:22 PM UTC
What about some WW1 stuff ?
Renault FT chassis fitted with a 75mm gun :
Period footage of a similar conversion (the gun is mounted in the opposite direction) :
http://www.cnc-aff.fr/internet_cnc/Internet/ARemplir/parcours/EFG1914/pages_FR/10213.html More FT self-propelled gun conversions :
http://www.landships.info/landships/tank_articles/Renault_SPGs.htmlH.P.
"Find the Bastards, then Pile On"
Col. George W.Patton III 's standing order for the troopers of the 11th Armoured Cavalry Regiment
tatbaqui
News Writer
#040
Metro Manila, Philippines
Joined: May 06, 2007
KitMaker: 2,713 posts
Armorama: 2,451 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - 05:43 PM UTC
United Kingdom
Joined: September 06, 2013
KitMaker: 1,112 posts
Armorama: 938 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 - 09:17 PM UTC
And Chamberlain & Ellis contains errors that were identified decades ago (like almost all published research that is that old). Not that more recent works are always any better....
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,169 posts
Armorama: 1,067 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - 04:05 AM UTC
Would that second Pz I Breda photo be just grey and brown? I always wondered that, there seem to be a few photos of that particular tank, and I thought of trying that one.
New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - 04:59 AM UTC
Quoted Text
And Chamberlain & Ellis contains errors that were identified decades ago (like almost all published research that is that old). Not that more recent works are always any better....
Actually for things like nomenclature and basic statistics they're usually right. The stuff that comes out of official archives hasn't changed in 50 years. The fact that the prototype Comet is the tank in the picture and that a particular A number was a particular tank is highly unlikely to be overturned by new information.
They can't be beat for basic information and identification. So called "Rivet counting" detail work is something else entirely and that is constantly in flux. I just go with what I want to build. I'm not doing a thesis for a graduate degree, I'm building a model. The number of angels dancing on a pinhead is as inconsequential as the phrase implies.
"The only thing a man should take seriously is the fact that nothing should be taken seriously."
Samuel Butler, Victorian satirist
Steve Willoughby
Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 - 06:55 PM UTC
Crusader-based SPGs :
Valentine + 6-pdr gun :
H.P.
"Find the Bastards, then Pile On"
Col. George W.Patton III 's standing order for the troopers of the 11th Armoured Cavalry Regiment
