Darren,
Thanks for the reminder to let civility be your guide in all things online.
Raul,
I really appreciate your statement..."I do believe that the choice of words matters a lot. Writing that somebody's post is "flawed" is very different as to " you may want to consider ...". It is often not what we say, but how it is said that can lead to people abandoning the forums. Another good reminder.
Cheers,
Rick
Site Talk
Site announcements, comments, or feedback about the site.
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Hosted by Darren Baker, Jim Starkweather
To Post or Not in 2018
clovis899
#155
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 774 posts
Armorama: 605 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 30, 2017 - 09:14 AM UTC
d111298pw
#456
Joined: September 22, 2016
KitMaker: 654 posts
Armorama: 638 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 30, 2017 - 09:45 AM UTC
Unfortunately, all forums begin to mirror the real world. As the world becomes more toxic, some folks see it as their right to carry it into their postings.
On this forum, we all share the same love and passion for building models. From the first timer through to the accomplished master we can all learn from each other. I joined this forum as I was new to building armor kits, after 40 years building everything else. For me, its been a great resource. My knowledge in armor is minimal, so I'm limited in my ability to answer questions, but I'll post a reply whenever I am able.
I can't think of any reason why anyone should post a negative or attacking comment. We are here to support and help each other. We are not here to attack each other.
Not everyone on this forum is a native English speaker. I always keep this in mind when reading a post as word choice might not be correct, so, take this into account before flaming someone.
At the end of the day, if you can't post a positive comment, don't respond.
To Darren, and the rest of the staff, thank you for keeping this site going.
To my fellow members, thank you for your support and recommendations.
From myself, I'll continue to post on this forum in a positive way.
Thanks for a great 2017 and a better 2018
On this forum, we all share the same love and passion for building models. From the first timer through to the accomplished master we can all learn from each other. I joined this forum as I was new to building armor kits, after 40 years building everything else. For me, its been a great resource. My knowledge in armor is minimal, so I'm limited in my ability to answer questions, but I'll post a reply whenever I am able.
I can't think of any reason why anyone should post a negative or attacking comment. We are here to support and help each other. We are not here to attack each other.
Not everyone on this forum is a native English speaker. I always keep this in mind when reading a post as word choice might not be correct, so, take this into account before flaming someone.
At the end of the day, if you can't post a positive comment, don't respond.
To Darren, and the rest of the staff, thank you for keeping this site going.
To my fellow members, thank you for your support and recommendations.
From myself, I'll continue to post on this forum in a positive way.
Thanks for a great 2017 and a better 2018
barnsley
Joined: June 26, 2016
KitMaker: 17 posts
Armorama: 11 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 30, 2017 - 11:01 AM UTC
The easiest way to post on a forum is to think you are stood in front of the original poster , not many keyboard warriors would be so rude and nasty if they were actually face to face
Juist read your post before posting it
There's no such thing as a stupid question we all started somewhere and that was the bottom rung
Happy new year to my fellow modellers where ever you are
Good health in the coming year
Juist read your post before posting it
There's no such thing as a stupid question we all started somewhere and that was the bottom rung
Happy new year to my fellow modellers where ever you are
Good health in the coming year
pylwagl
Joined: January 04, 2015
KitMaker: 32 posts
Armorama: 3 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 30, 2017 - 03:45 PM UTC
So, I often visit Armorama and Aeroscale sites and thoroughly enjoy them both. I think the attitudes and responses of some posters can be a bit tactless and rude at times, but that (sadly) seems to be about par for such websites these days. What I Do find frustrating is the complication and effort involved in posting anything beyond a response such as this. I have taken part in a few campaigns over on Aeroscale and have yet to successfully post a single image in the gallery. I will freely admit it may well be my incompetence that is causing this, but the process involved is labyrinthine at best. I would say difficulty in posting is the major factor in determining the membership of Kitmaker sites.
Notwithstanding this, these are great sites, keep up the good work
best
Stu.
Notwithstanding this, these are great sites, keep up the good work
best
Stu.
Mrclark7
Joined: June 04, 2017
KitMaker: 503 posts
Armorama: 477 posts
Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 - 07:49 AM UTC
I enjoy the site greatly. However, were it changed for me is when I responded to a post and another decided to edit his original posting making it appear as though I was (insert word). And then LYING that they ever changed it.
So I no longer wanted to engage in conversation KNOWING anyone could edit their post at anytime. This is the first forum EVER I have seen that ability.
The fact that it was also from a MAJOR poster and Everyone is buddies with him on here is also amusing
So how about removing the edit button to like it was before the photobucket incident?
So I no longer wanted to engage in conversation KNOWING anyone could edit their post at anytime. This is the first forum EVER I have seen that ability.
The fact that it was also from a MAJOR poster and Everyone is buddies with him on here is also amusing
So how about removing the edit button to like it was before the photobucket incident?
d6mst0
#453
Joined: August 28, 2016
KitMaker: 1,925 posts
Armorama: 601 posts
Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 - 09:58 AM UTC
Every forum I belong to lets you edit your posts. This one is not the first and only.
Dragon164
#226
Joined: February 20, 2012
KitMaker: 1,909 posts
Armorama: 1,066 posts
Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 - 11:07 AM UTC
Thanks Darren I generally agree with most of your original post. 
I have posted quite a bit on here and sister sites and am always careful to try and make sure my posts can not be taken the wrong way, not that I criticise anyone I don't believe I ever have.
I have put a lot of my builds on here and plan on doing many more!
I see a lot of comments about posting photos one thing I would like to see is everyone get more gallery space without becoming a member.
Finally if I can help anyone with their posting issues let me know I find adding pics here is quite easy for me and may be able to help others.
Cheers Rob.
I have posted quite a bit on here and sister sites and am always careful to try and make sure my posts can not be taken the wrong way, not that I criticise anyone I don't believe I ever have.
I have put a lot of my builds on here and plan on doing many more!
I see a lot of comments about posting photos one thing I would like to see is everyone get more gallery space without becoming a member.
Finally if I can help anyone with their posting issues let me know I find adding pics here is quite easy for me and may be able to help others.
Cheers Rob.
JPTRR
Managing Editor
#051
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
Armorama: 2,447 posts
Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 - 11:26 AM UTC
Right said, Darren.
People come here because it is a friendly place to learn, teach, and/or show off the fruits of their passions. Some like the latest-greatest kits. Some are happy with kits they dug out of their stash from 50 years ago. Some have close personal experience with tanks and planes, some modelers are inspired from a first time exposure from a television show or magazine article, or World of (fill in your favorite game). Some want advice and critique to improve, some are happy with what they have and where their skill level is at.
I welcome all of the above. As an unapologetic model hobbyist, my main purpose when posting is to praise and encourage, and any criticism is meant to be constructive. I want everybody who comes to this community to end their session feeling better about all aspects of their hobby than when they first clicked in. Like some one stated a few posts prior, it is not what one says, it is how they say it.
Thanks for posting, everyone.
People come here because it is a friendly place to learn, teach, and/or show off the fruits of their passions. Some like the latest-greatest kits. Some are happy with kits they dug out of their stash from 50 years ago. Some have close personal experience with tanks and planes, some modelers are inspired from a first time exposure from a television show or magazine article, or World of (fill in your favorite game). Some want advice and critique to improve, some are happy with what they have and where their skill level is at.
I welcome all of the above. As an unapologetic model hobbyist, my main purpose when posting is to praise and encourage, and any criticism is meant to be constructive. I want everybody who comes to this community to end their session feeling better about all aspects of their hobby than when they first clicked in. Like some one stated a few posts prior, it is not what one says, it is how they say it.
Thanks for posting, everyone.
Mrclark7
Joined: June 04, 2017
KitMaker: 503 posts
Armorama: 477 posts
Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 - 11:27 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Every forum I belong to lets you edit your posts. This one is not the first and only.
Yes, I misspoke, I ment you get a time stamp proving you edited. Also showing times edited. Allowing proof that editng was done after a reply.
Mrclark7
Joined: June 04, 2017
KitMaker: 503 posts
Armorama: 477 posts
Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 - 11:32 AM UTC
deerstalker36
Joined: May 16, 2010
KitMaker: 232 posts
Armorama: 218 posts
Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 - 05:03 PM UTC
well said. constructive criticism is always welcome, as well as advice for how to improve as we are always learning in this hobby.
blind attacks as to how bad your model is should be shut down immediately though, we are all beginners in one sense or another
blind attacks as to how bad your model is should be shut down immediately though, we are all beginners in one sense or another
CMOT
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
Armorama: 8,571 posts
Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 - 05:59 PM UTC
I am seeing a number of negative comments about the gallery and I can fully understand those gripes about it, I actually agree to a large extent as does the publisher. This year at around March/April Jim hopes to have a major revamp ready that will do away with all of the issues of the current gallery providing members follow a couple of simple rules that I will leave Jim to elaborate on when everything is in place.
I should make clear that I was not saying that negative comments should be stopped, I was trying to saying that negative attributes can be pointed out and constructive solutions offered. We also as modellers tend to linger on the negative rather than the positive, so by all means say that this, that and the other is wrong but also take the time to look for what is well done and point it out as such.
I want to really thank all of the members who have taken the time to read this thread and even more so those that replied to it.
I should make clear that I was not saying that negative comments should be stopped, I was trying to saying that negative attributes can be pointed out and constructive solutions offered. We also as modellers tend to linger on the negative rather than the positive, so by all means say that this, that and the other is wrong but also take the time to look for what is well done and point it out as such.
I want to really thank all of the members who have taken the time to read this thread and even more so those that replied to it.
M4A3E8Easy8
Joined: February 04, 2006
KitMaker: 302 posts
Armorama: 300 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 05:57 PM UTC
I have posted my work here a few times and honestly I lean towards not posting any more. It is not due to negative feed back or being picked apart. It is actually the exact opposite. I post my work ask for any feed back and get none. This has made this site, to me any rate, feel like you need to be a member of the secret club to get any kind of response. I understand that there are groups of friends here and some people have a lot of others following thier work. How ever it does give this site a secret hand shake club feeling to me. I will also add that I have never had a build picked apart but have seen threads about kits being picked apart. Is the negative kit reviews a good thing or bad.. That depends on your views of the subject. Me I worry about how well the kit goes together and is made over every bolt is there.
RLlockie
Joined: September 06, 2013
KitMaker: 1,112 posts
Armorama: 938 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 06:05 PM UTC
Maybe people are concerned about being labelled a ‘rivet counter’ and think “Do I need to subject myself to critics just because I tried to help someone I don’t know to improve a future model when I could spend that time researching my own project to make that better?”. It has happened...
If you post something on a public forum, surely it is wise to accept that people might comment on it. It’s a free choice to post your work and if you don’t want comments (other than congratulatory ones) then maybe saying so in the original post would enable people to know that they should move on if they have such comments.
If you post something on a public forum, surely it is wise to accept that people might comment on it. It’s a free choice to post your work and if you don’t want comments (other than congratulatory ones) then maybe saying so in the original post would enable people to know that they should move on if they have such comments.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 11:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I have posted my work here a few times and honestly I lean towards not posting any more. It is not due to negative feed back or being picked apart. It is actually the exact opposite. I post my work ask for any feed back and get none. This has made this site, to me any rate, feel like you need to be a member of the secret club to get any kind of response. I understand that there are groups of friends here and some people have a lot of others following thier work. How ever it does give this site a secret hand shake club feeling to me.
I don't know if I'm like everyone else, or if I'm different. I don't read or even comment on the vast majority of postings on the site, I only respond to topics that catch my attention in the title of the post. There are just too many topics to read them all. I also skip between KitMaker sites like Aeroscale and Model Shipwrights. And I visit other modeling websites too. I'd like to think most of us do as I do and look for the topics of interest to us personally. I wouldn't take it personally if you don't always get feedback, but I'd keep asking for it, rather than not continuing to post. One thing for sure, if you don't continue to ask, you won't get any feedback at all.
VR, Russ
amoz02t
#192
Joined: November 25, 2009
KitMaker: 1,383 posts
Armorama: 1,281 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 12:58 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI have posted my work here a few times and honestly I lean towards not posting any more. It is not due to negative feed back or being picked apart. It is actually the exact opposite. I post my work ask for any feed back and get none. This has made this site, to me any rate, feel like you need to be a member of the secret club to get any kind of response. I understand that there are groups of friends here and some people have a lot of others following thier work. How ever it does give this site a secret hand shake club feeling to me.
I don't know if I'm like everyone else, or if I'm different. I don't read or even comment on the vast majority of postings on the site, I only respond to topics that catch my attention in the title of the post. There are just too many topics to read them all. I also skip between KitMaker sites like Aeroscale and Model Shipwrights. And I visit other modeling websites too. I'd like to think most of us do as I do and look for the topics of interest to us personally. I wouldn't take it personally if you don't always get feedback, but I'd keep asking for it, rather than not continuing to post. One thing for sure, if you don't continue to ask, you won't get any feedback at all.
VR, Russ
Well...we can at least share the secret handshake, right?
tatbaqui
News Writer#040
Joined: May 06, 2007
KitMaker: 2,713 posts
Armorama: 2,451 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 03:22 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI have posted my work here a few times and honestly I lean towards not posting any more. It is not due to negative feed back or being picked apart. It is actually the exact opposite. I post my work ask for any feed back and get none. This has made this site, to me any rate, feel like you need to be a member of the secret club to get any kind of response. I understand that there are groups of friends here and some people have a lot of others following thier work. How ever it does give this site a secret hand shake club feeling to me.
I don't know if I'm like everyone else, or if I'm different. I don't read or even comment on the vast majority of postings on the site, I only respond to topics that catch my attention in the title of the post. There are just too many topics to read them all. I also skip between KitMaker sites like Aeroscale and Model Shipwrights. And I visit other modeling websites too. I'd like to think most of us do as I do and look for the topics of interest to us personally. I wouldn't take it personally if you don't always get feedback, but I'd keep asking for it, rather than not continuing to post. One thing for sure, if you don't continue to ask, you won't get any feedback at all.
VR, Russ
I'd like to think that whilst we all share a common interest on modelling, not all would have the same for a specific subject. I also read posts that interest me but not necessarily posting a comment just for the sake of doing so. If there's feedback I need I'd just keep asking. Cheers
vettejack
Joined: November 23, 2012
KitMaker: 1,277 posts
Armorama: 1,254 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 06:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I do believe that the choice of words matters a lot. Writing that somebody's post is "flawed" is very different as to " you may want to consider ...".
I do appreciate when somebody corrects me, but do not appreciate when somebody just dismisses my comments just because of their own personal preferences.
If Armorama is going to be a friendly forum then amicable conversations have to take place. It really puts me off, when I read contentious and aggressive posts. This is supposed to be a relaxing place to enjoy our hobby.
Happy New Year!
For the very descriptive negativity you mention from a few is the very reason I'll never post a 2nd review. "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"...comes to mind. I do, however, appreciate the articles, etc., that interest me, and I do count on reviews to determine how I spend on this hobby, as I consider this site as my primary source of information.
Cheyenne56a
Joined: February 10, 2010
KitMaker: 56 posts
Armorama: 42 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 08:27 AM UTC
I really enjoy this website and would love to share my modelling work but still can't even figure out how to download an ID image never mind to a forum 
Jmarles
Joined: November 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,138 posts
Armorama: 953 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 08:40 AM UTC
Here's a crazy idea - if the subject of a thread is something you have absolutely zero interest in, don't waste everybody's time with off-topic comments and whining. If panzers and ambush schemes and arguments about tropical tigers ain't your thing, move on to the next thread instead of hijacking it. It's stupid things like this that make me want to just peace out of Armorama.
MrCompletely
Joined: February 12, 2016
KitMaker: 128 posts
Armorama: 120 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 09:41 AM UTC
Totally agree Darren; I was a long-time "lurker" before I started posting some time ago and in the time since I've been posting I've noticed a deterioration in the demeanour of some members. Without naming names...one in particular rattles my cage as he (presumably a he) seems to do nothing but pour negativity (and his perceived greater knowledge in ALL fields) over others' posts. Funnily enough he hasn't (as yet) posted in this thread...And as with others; the whole rigmarole of posting pics here is, I'm afraid, frankly too time consuming.
CMOT
Editor-in-ChiefJoined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
Armorama: 8,571 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 11:55 AM UTC
I know this does not solve the issue here and now, but by the end of March Jim should have a solution to your picture posting issues, or be very close to a resolution of the issues.
young_sven
Joined: May 14, 2010
KitMaker: 749 posts
Armorama: 743 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 01:12 PM UTC
Well written, Darren.
I myself am sitting on that ledge, not so much because any unpleasantness has been directed towards me, but because of what I see here on a more or less daily basis and how others are treated and addressed.
It is rather interesting that the (very few) members who practice arrogant and demeaning behaviour almost on a daily basis have chosen not to be active in this thread.
The word "flawed" was used quite recently by one member to adress another, but - amazingly - many sided with the aggressor in that post. However, that is usually the case when certain individuals post their derogatory comments. Some people are worshipped as heroes no matter how poorly they treat others, simply because they are self-proclaimed experts and promoted themselves to the status "God's gift to the modelling community".
Makes me think of the saying "we are all equal, but some are more equal than others"
John (Vettejack), I was also shocked and dismayed by the responses you received on your review, I can completely understand that you won't be doing that again. I appreciated the time and hard work you had put into it. You represent the 99% of members who make Armorama one of the best modelling sites to visit, what a shame that the remaining 1% serve to spoil it.
So, will I be posting in 2018? Not sure, I guess time till tell. I'll keep using Armorama as a reference, though.
I myself am sitting on that ledge, not so much because any unpleasantness has been directed towards me, but because of what I see here on a more or less daily basis and how others are treated and addressed.
It is rather interesting that the (very few) members who practice arrogant and demeaning behaviour almost on a daily basis have chosen not to be active in this thread.
The word "flawed" was used quite recently by one member to adress another, but - amazingly - many sided with the aggressor in that post. However, that is usually the case when certain individuals post their derogatory comments. Some people are worshipped as heroes no matter how poorly they treat others, simply because they are self-proclaimed experts and promoted themselves to the status "God's gift to the modelling community".
Makes me think of the saying "we are all equal, but some are more equal than others"
John (Vettejack), I was also shocked and dismayed by the responses you received on your review, I can completely understand that you won't be doing that again. I appreciated the time and hard work you had put into it. You represent the 99% of members who make Armorama one of the best modelling sites to visit, what a shame that the remaining 1% serve to spoil it.
So, will I be posting in 2018? Not sure, I guess time till tell. I'll keep using Armorama as a reference, though.
drabslab
Joined: September 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,186 posts
Armorama: 190 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 05:48 PM UTC
Quoted Text
So, will I be posting in 2018? Not sure, I guess time till tell.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke.
Or, in my own words, the very last thing you may do is stop posting, stop writing reviews, stop expressing your opinion in a civilized way ... If you shy away from confronting the bullies, you practically hand over a very beautiful modelling site to a few a-holes.
That does not mean you may not express your opinion, on the contrary. Without that it makes no sense having this community either.
I have not spared my crtiticism at times, against subjects that appeared on the site, against how the site is working ... but in my view, as long as you do that with a constructive attitude it is an enrichment.
Ok, sometimes you will be a bit too strong, or simply wrong but amongst friends, that is not a problem, right?
Besides, a simple apology when you realise that you wrote some stuff that is a bit over the top can do miracles.
All the best
vettejack
Joined: November 23, 2012
KitMaker: 1,277 posts
Armorama: 1,254 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 06:24 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Well written, Darren.
I myself am sitting on that ledge, not so much because any unpleasantness has been directed towards me, but because of what I see here on a more or less daily basis and how others are treated and addressed.
It is rather interesting that the (very few) members who practice arrogant and demeaning behaviour almost on a daily basis have chosen not to be active in this thread.
The word "flawed" was used quite recently by one member to adress another, but - amazingly - many sided with the aggressor in that post. However, that is usually the case when certain individuals post their derogatory comments. Some people are worshipped as heroes no matter how poorly they treat others, simply because they are self-proclaimed experts and promoted themselves to the status "God's gift to the modelling community".
Makes me think of the saying "we are all equal, but some are more equal than others"
John (Vettejack), I was also shocked and dismayed by the responses you received on your review, I can completely understand that you won't be doing that again. I appreciated the time and hard work you had put into it. You represent the 99% of members who make Armorama one of the best modelling sites to visit, what a shame that the remaining 1% serve to spoil it.
So, will I be posting in 2018? Not sure, I guess time till tell. I'll keep using Armorama as a reference, though.
Thank you for the kind remarks Sven...now thats' how this site should be!
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